San Fransisco Gay Marriages
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Can someone explain this to me. I understand that issuing a marriage license to same sex couples in California is against the law. In fact, it is a criminal offense. So why isn't anyone getting arrested? Furthermore, since the licenses were obtained illegally then they aren't binding right? So those couples who thought they got married really aren't? This is not a post about whether or not same sex marriages should be legal. I'm simply asking for clarification on how laws work in California.
Because it is such a politcally sensitive issue, law enforcement has decided to allow the courts to resolve this. My 2 cents on the subject: Government should not make any distinction (when it comes to taxes, benefits, etc) between civil union and marriage. Government should only issue civil-union licenses - anything beyond that should be handled by the church. Government should not discriminate same-sex couples that want civil union licenses. If the church allows same-sex marriages, then the couple can take their govt. issued civil-union license to their clergy and ask for a church wedding instead of a civil ceremony.
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jhaga wrote: That's why the laws are so important. The laws should be based on what is right, not on what we feel. Definately. Otherwise the world would've been short of a couple of powerbuilder programmers today. :rolleyes: -- So let's just walk from place to place, as long as we don't talk face to face.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: powerbuilder programmers Progress 4GL programmers are't any better I can promise you ..:) jhaga --------------------------------- Every generation laughs at the old fashions, but follows religiously the new. Henry David Thoreau, "Walden", 1854
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Because it is such a politcally sensitive issue, law enforcement has decided to allow the courts to resolve this. My 2 cents on the subject: Government should not make any distinction (when it comes to taxes, benefits, etc) between civil union and marriage. Government should only issue civil-union licenses - anything beyond that should be handled by the church. Government should not discriminate same-sex couples that want civil union licenses. If the church allows same-sex marriages, then the couple can take their govt. issued civil-union license to their clergy and ask for a church wedding instead of a civil ceremony.
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What's the latest butt-scratch count? Check it out!Terry O`Nolley wrote: Government should not make any distinction (when it comes to taxes, benefits, etc) between civil union and marriage. Nor should the government make any distinction when it comes to my marital status. Period. What possible difference does it make as far as taxes, etc. whether or not I'm married? The only time it becomes an issue, oddly, is when people get a divorce, and have to hash out the details of estate and offspring. BW CP Member Homepages
"...take what you need and leave the rest..."
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Brian Gideon wrote: I'm simply asking for clarification on how laws work in California. I also wonder..:wtf: how such sexual relations (out of mariage) are not forbidden ?
Most western countries have moved on from that. In fact, a lot recognise same sex marriges. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
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Terry O`Nolley wrote: Government should not make any distinction (when it comes to taxes, benefits, etc) between civil union and marriage. Nor should the government make any distinction when it comes to my marital status. Period. What possible difference does it make as far as taxes, etc. whether or not I'm married? The only time it becomes an issue, oddly, is when people get a divorce, and have to hash out the details of estate and offspring. BW CP Member Homepages
"...take what you need and leave the rest..."
brianwelsch wrote: Nor should the government make any distinction when it comes to my marital status. Period. What possible difference does it make as far as taxes, etc. whether or not I'm married? I agree. 2 people living together as a couple but not married should not have to pay more taxes than 2 people living together as a couple who are married.
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Because it is such a politcally sensitive issue, law enforcement has decided to allow the courts to resolve this. My 2 cents on the subject: Government should not make any distinction (when it comes to taxes, benefits, etc) between civil union and marriage. Government should only issue civil-union licenses - anything beyond that should be handled by the church. Government should not discriminate same-sex couples that want civil union licenses. If the church allows same-sex marriages, then the couple can take their govt. issued civil-union license to their clergy and ask for a church wedding instead of a civil ceremony.
Have you answered an MTQ? Check out the stats!
What's the latest butt-scratch count? Check it out!Terry O`Nolley wrote: Government should not make any distinction (when it comes to taxes, benefits, etc) between civil union and marriage. Government should only issue civil-union licenses - anything beyond that should be handled by the church. Government should not discriminate same-sex couples that want civil union licenses. If the church allows same-sex marriages, then the couple can take their govt. issued civil-union license to their clergy and ask for a church wedding instead of a civil ceremony. Couldn't have said it better myself. 5!
Ian Darling "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
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Fair enough. But I'd rather see you use another word than then perverse as it supposedly means:
perverse
3: marked by immorality; deviating from what is considered
right or proper or good; "depraved criminals"; "a
perverted sense of loyalty"; "the reprobate conduct of a
gambling aristocrat" [syn: depraved, immoral, perverted,
reprobate]If I understand you correctly, then what you really mean to say is that it's wrong. Perverse is a word, in my mind at least, loaded with morality. -- So let's just walk from place to place, as long as we don't talk face to face.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: If I understand you correctly, then what you really mean to say is that it's wrong. Perverse is a word, in my mind at least, loaded with morality. I suppose what I'm saying is that it is an "abnormal" behavior which people have the right to view as being immoral if they so choose based upon their own conscious dictates. I find neither behavior, homsexuality nor descrimination against it, to be immoral. Yet, even though I am morally nuetral, I view the homosexual community as being the ones most aggressively attempting to promote a moral agenda and to use the power of the state to sanction that agenda. The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under then name of Liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until one day America will be a Socialist nation without knowing how it happened. - Norman Thomas, Socialist Party Presidential candidate
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Thank you for clearing this up. I had no idea that the proliferation of guns played such an important role in marriage laws.
I was suggesting to stop worring about Gay marriages :-)
Prakash, India.
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Laws? instead of worring abou gay people getting married, i guess ppl should so something about the Guns that is available like toys.
Prakash, India.
Mr.Prakash wrote: Laws? Are you against laws? Mr.Prakash wrote: ppl should so something about the Guns Do something? You mean through LAWS? First off - the 2 subjects are totally unrelated. Secondly - crime statistics show that in areas where guns are allowed to be carried, the violent crime rate is lower. While guns make crimes of passion more likely to be fatal, the do not raise the incidence of crimes. Criminals will use whatever they have available to commit their crimes and hard-core criminal organizations will simply procur their guns from illegal channels. The crime scene in America vis-a-vis other countries is not an endorsement for gun-control. It is much deeper than that. The majority of America's violent, pre-meditated crimes are committed in relation to illegal drugs or gang activity (and a lot of the gang activity is also drug related). The psyche of our nation is such that the drug culture has flourished and come into direct conflict with "mainstream" society. If guns were not available, other weapons would be used. Anyone naive enough to think that banning guns in America would do anything other than exchange the weapon used in a violent crime to a non-firearm is deluded.
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Perhaps you should start a thread discussing gun control, and the pros/cons of realistic looking toys. ;) BW CP Member Homepages
"...take what you need and leave the rest..."
Good Idea :-0
Prakash, India.
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But but, people do do something about the "Guns that is available like toys". They either buy them or they don't. They have a choice. Do you have that choice? Do you like having choices? Tell us Mr.Prakash, we're dying to know. ;P Regards, Alvaro BTW, last I checked buying a toy truck does not require a waiting period or background check.
"I do" is both the shortest and the longest sentence in the English language.
Guns are not supposed to be a "choise" of a common man. You really dont need a gun to protect urself.
Prakash, India.
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jhaga wrote: Come on Stan! Homosexuality doesn't have anything to do with perversions I absolutely disagree with that. Of course its about sexual perversion I'll leave the morality of it to others, but sticking your penis in someone's mouth is damned sure sexually perverse (even if an entirely benign form. ) Its none of my business until they tell me I have to accept it, than I certainly have my right to a political opinion on the subject at the very least. The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under then name of Liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until one day America will be a Socialist nation without knowing how it happened. - Norman Thomas, Socialist Party Presidential candidate
Stan Shannon wrote: I'll leave the morality of it to others, but sticking your penis in someone's mouth is damned sure sexually perverse The dictionary defines perversion as A sexual practice or act considered abnormal or deviant How can it be abnormal or deviant when the majority of men have either done it, or wanted to? Shouldn't the definition of perversion be relegated to activities that the vast majority of the population wouldn't consider engaging in? And even then, it is nobody's business if no harm is being done.
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AdventureBoy wrote: I suspect this sub-thread is going nowhere... i suspect it started the same place. What's your point? AdventureBoy wrote: You're trying to point out flaws in my grammar or word-usage, because you can't come up with a valid counter-arguement. My argument was stated quite clearly in my subject line, and it is your flawed logic that backs it up. AdventureBoy wrote: Don't come back and say 'Oh, well then I assume you want to protect the rights of those who believe in child-sacrifice'. Ok, i said nothing about child sacrifice. I don't know why you're bringing that in here, but it doesn't help your cause. If you've got something against sacrificial children, then start another thread. AdventureBoy wrote: When prejudice gives an unfair disadvantage to, or in some other way harms, an individual or group, for no erason other than unfair discrimination, then it is wrong and the situation should be remeied. Who by? AdventureBoy wrote: I suppose public debate will eventually shift the concensus, and eventually the law-makers elected by the people will listen. Shift it in which direction? And what will the law-makers listen to? AdventureBoy wrote: Obviously I care greatly for the law. This is why you began your first post with "Fuck the law"? Inflammatory bullshit. :|
--- the work, which will become a new genre unto itself, will be called...Shog9 wrote: This is why you began your first post with "f*** the law"? Inflammatory bullshit. I think it was understood by all that I meant "f*ck the existing discriminatory laws." Again, you're saying nothing. You're just arguing irrelevant details and word usage, because you can't generate a real counter-point. Is it because you have nothing to say? You bore me. Run along now, little one. ;P Why is the phrase "It's none of my business" always followed by "BUT..." ;P
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AdventureBoy wrote: How so? I see racial discrimination and sexual discrimination as being nearly identicle issues. Both unfairly restrict the rights and freedoms of specific groups of people based on irreleavant attributes of those groups. Because we are not talking about race, or genetics or anything at all to do with biology. We are talking about a set of behaviors. To say that we do not have the right to discriminate against another's behavior based upon our own personal set of moral principles is absolute tyranny. Nothing could be more tyranical. I might not have the right to discriminate against someone because of their skin color, but if they behave in some way I find inappropriate I should certainly be freely allowed discriminate. The state should not be defining for me what does and does not represent appropriate behavior. H AdventureBoy wrote: You seem to be confused. Canadian law does permit free excercise of religion, and any other practice under the sun that does not impinge on the rights and freedoms of others. That's the point. YOU'RE the one whose suggesting that the beliefs of individuals should be subverted by the government's religion (A specific branch of Christianity, no doubt). YOU'RE the one who actually believes that "Whatever the state says is normal, is normal, and to hell with free exercise of religion" Canadian law makes it possible for you to have any beliefs, religions or views that you want, as long as you are not somehow harming anyone else. For instance, Canadian law gives the same tax advantages to people in same-sex marriages as it does to hetero marriages and common-law relationships. So you can freely exercise your religious convictions so long as you do it precisely according to the dictates of the state. Wow, that is what I call freedom. Gee, you Canadians are so advanced. The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under then name of Liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until one day America will be a Socialist nation without knowing how it happened. - Norman Thomas, Socialist Party Presidential candidate
Stan Shannon wrote: To say that we do not have the right to discriminate against another's behavior based upon our own personal set of moral principles is absolute tyranny. Nothing could be more tyranical. I might not have the right to discriminate against someone because of their skin color, but if they behave in some way I find inappropriate I should certainly be freely allowed discriminate This is true. I know I would discriminate against someone if I knew they were cannibals who killed children. So I recognize your right to choose what sort of behaviour you would consider worthy of discrimination. Just as I have the right to disassociate myself from people who would discriminate against homosexuals. Stan Shannon wrote: The state should not be defining for me what does and does not represent appropriate behavior. Well then how can you acknowledge the states right to call homicide or robbery justified? If you are going to be a liberatarian, then at least don't be a hypocritical one.
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Shog9 wrote: This is why you began your first post with "f*** the law"? Inflammatory bullshit. I think it was understood by all that I meant "f*ck the existing discriminatory laws." Again, you're saying nothing. You're just arguing irrelevant details and word usage, because you can't generate a real counter-point. Is it because you have nothing to say? You bore me. Run along now, little one. ;P Why is the phrase "It's none of my business" always followed by "BUT..." ;P
AdventureBoy wrote: You bore me. You're here to entertain me every bit as much as i'm here to entertain you. It ain't my job to make sure you get your money's worth though... AdventureBoy wrote: You're just arguing irrelevant details and word usage, because you can't generate a real counter-point. A counter to what point? I'm staring at a 2-inch paragraph of badly-formed ideas on why SF is doing the right thing, civil disobedience-wise. You wander around, asserting the law should be ignored (*and* changed), because people aren't making the right decisions and they should be and prejudice is bad, racism is bad and racism was prejudice and you're not a racist now, are you? Then wrap it all up with a nice little condescending take on how America (you *do* know you're an American, right?) is a bit backwards in the whole "all relationships are equal, no drawing distinctions now!" department, but we're coming 'round doncha worry! And then you anticipate debate based on these wonderfully laid-out thoughts. Well... you gave it, you got it, now enjoy it. ;) How do you move in a world of fog, That's always changing things? Makes me wish that i could be a dog, When i see the price that you pay.
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Because it is such a politcally sensitive issue, law enforcement has decided to allow the courts to resolve this. My 2 cents on the subject: Government should not make any distinction (when it comes to taxes, benefits, etc) between civil union and marriage. Government should only issue civil-union licenses - anything beyond that should be handled by the church. Government should not discriminate same-sex couples that want civil union licenses. If the church allows same-sex marriages, then the couple can take their govt. issued civil-union license to their clergy and ask for a church wedding instead of a civil ceremony.
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Most western countries have moved on from that. In fact, a lot recognise same sex marriges. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
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I was suggesting to stop worring about Gay marriages :-)
Prakash, India.
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Stan Shannon wrote: I'll leave the morality of it to others, but sticking your penis in someone's mouth is damned sure sexually perverse The dictionary defines perversion as A sexual practice or act considered abnormal or deviant How can it be abnormal or deviant when the majority of men have either done it, or wanted to? Shouldn't the definition of perversion be relegated to activities that the vast majority of the population wouldn't consider engaging in? And even then, it is nobody's business if no harm is being done.
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What's the latest butt-scratch count? Check it out!Terry O`Nolley wrote: And even then, it is nobody's business if no harm is being done. If they choose to make a political issue out of it it certainly is. The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under then name of Liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until one day America will be a Socialist nation without knowing how it happened. - Norman Thomas, Socialist Party Presidential candidate
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Chris Losinger wrote: Schwollenpecker :laugh: Did you come up with that one? Regards, Alvaro
"I do" is both the shortest and the longest sentence in the English language.
Anybody whose seen commercials for The Underground Comedy Movie would know that he didn't.
Who am I? Currently: A Programming Student trying to survive school with plan to go on to Univeristy of Advancing Technology to study game design. Main career interest include: Multimedia and game programming. Working on an outside project: A game for the GamePark32 (GP32) portable gaming console. My website: www.GP32US.com