Women priests?
-
The short answer is I don't pretend to know. So much of the Bible appears contradictory at first glance that it sometimes takes time to work out where we each stand....and it's all too easy to miss an all-important verse which might have helped all the pieces fit together. I added the qualification to my post after seeing yours regarding the position of women in the Church. If you tell me which verses specifically you were referring to I'll go and refresh my memory and work out if it changes what I feel. :) Personally, I always find it astonishing that so many churches make a big issue out of homosexuality (which Jesus Himself didn't speak about as far as I can see in the Gospels) but sanction divorce (a subject He was quite unambiguous about) without any real complaint. Anna :rose: Homepage | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Personally, I always find it astonishing that so many churches make a big issue out of homosexuality (which Jesus Himself didn't speak about as far as I can see in the Gospels) but sanction divorce (a subject He was quite unambiguous about) without any real complaint. I couldn't agree more and it's a subject that goes to the heart of why I hate 'christians' trying to push their morals to others. I would not consider divorce as an option, because of what Jesus said. Does that mean there should be a law so that a woman who is beaten by her husband cannot leave him, even though neither of them professes to be a Christian ? As for the issue at hand, the churches seem by and large willing to moralise according to the status quo, instead of the Bible. Which is why they ordain women. 1 Timothy from memory - ' I suffer not a woman to preach or have authority over men'. Somewhere else it says a leader needs to be the husband of one wife. ( and this is the point, women DO have a role in leadership, a man can't do it alone ). Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
-
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Personally, I always find it astonishing that so many churches make a big issue out of homosexuality (which Jesus Himself didn't speak about as far as I can see in the Gospels) but sanction divorce (a subject He was quite unambiguous about) without any real complaint. I couldn't agree more and it's a subject that goes to the heart of why I hate 'christians' trying to push their morals to others. I would not consider divorce as an option, because of what Jesus said. Does that mean there should be a law so that a woman who is beaten by her husband cannot leave him, even though neither of them professes to be a Christian ? As for the issue at hand, the churches seem by and large willing to moralise according to the status quo, instead of the Bible. Which is why they ordain women. 1 Timothy from memory - ' I suffer not a woman to preach or have authority over men'. Somewhere else it says a leader needs to be the husband of one wife. ( and this is the point, women DO have a role in leadership, a man can't do it alone ). Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
That was quick! Just when I was thinking of going to bed too (it's 3am here lol)...:rolleyes: Christian Graus wrote: I couldn't agree more and it's a subject that goes to the heart of why I hate 'christians' trying to push their morals to others. I would not consider divorce as an option, because of what Jesus said. Does that mean there should be a law so that a woman who is beaten by her husband cannot leave him, even though neither of them professes to be a Christian ? I don't like divorce either, yet I can see the need for it. It's something I do struggle with - despite (or maybe because of?) being divorced myself. One thing makes perfect sense though. If the partners are right for each other in the first place, there's no need for it. Sadly, many marriages - including my own - don't have such a firm foundation. That's the real tragedy. Christian Graus wrote: 1 Timothy from memory - ' I suffer not a woman to preach or have authority over men'. Somewhere else it says a leader needs to be the husband of one wife. ( and this is the point, women DO have a role in leadership, a man can't do it alone ). It's time for me to re-read that book then. :) It's 1-Timothy 2 verse 12. "I do not let women teach. I do not let them have authority over men. They must be quiet." 1-Corinthians 15, verses 34-35 is a little more detailed: "Women should remain silent in the meetings. They are not allowed to speak. They must follow the lead of those in authority, as the Law says. If they have a question about something, they should ask their own husbands at home. It is shamefull for women to speak in church meetings" (NIrV) I can understand these verses in the context of the society of the time, but not today. To me, this seems in the same territory as Paul's teaching that men should not have long hair and women should (1-Corinthians 11, verses 13-16)...appropriate for the society of the time, but not for today. As I said, we all have to work out where we are but not be afraid to change it when we become aware of information relevant to the subject. Having now read the scripture you referred to, I think I'll stick with my original position for now. ;) What we know now is not complete. What we prophesy now is not perfect. But when the perfect comes, the things that are not perfect will pass away... Anna :rose: Homepage |
-
That was quick! Just when I was thinking of going to bed too (it's 3am here lol)...:rolleyes: Christian Graus wrote: I couldn't agree more and it's a subject that goes to the heart of why I hate 'christians' trying to push their morals to others. I would not consider divorce as an option, because of what Jesus said. Does that mean there should be a law so that a woman who is beaten by her husband cannot leave him, even though neither of them professes to be a Christian ? I don't like divorce either, yet I can see the need for it. It's something I do struggle with - despite (or maybe because of?) being divorced myself. One thing makes perfect sense though. If the partners are right for each other in the first place, there's no need for it. Sadly, many marriages - including my own - don't have such a firm foundation. That's the real tragedy. Christian Graus wrote: 1 Timothy from memory - ' I suffer not a woman to preach or have authority over men'. Somewhere else it says a leader needs to be the husband of one wife. ( and this is the point, women DO have a role in leadership, a man can't do it alone ). It's time for me to re-read that book then. :) It's 1-Timothy 2 verse 12. "I do not let women teach. I do not let them have authority over men. They must be quiet." 1-Corinthians 15, verses 34-35 is a little more detailed: "Women should remain silent in the meetings. They are not allowed to speak. They must follow the lead of those in authority, as the Law says. If they have a question about something, they should ask their own husbands at home. It is shamefull for women to speak in church meetings" (NIrV) I can understand these verses in the context of the society of the time, but not today. To me, this seems in the same territory as Paul's teaching that men should not have long hair and women should (1-Corinthians 11, verses 13-16)...appropriate for the society of the time, but not for today. As I said, we all have to work out where we are but not be afraid to change it when we become aware of information relevant to the subject. Having now read the scripture you referred to, I think I'll stick with my original position for now. ;) What we know now is not complete. What we prophesy now is not perfect. But when the perfect comes, the things that are not perfect will pass away... Anna :rose: Homepage |
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: It's something I do struggle with - despite (or maybe because of?) being divorced myself. I'm divorced myself, my wife left me. The Bible also clarifies that a Christian who is married to a non-Christian who wants to leave is not obliged to try and make them stay. Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: That's the real tragedy. I agree, and I tend to think that the Bible model works in helping people work through their problem who already had the respect for marriage to know it was forever, and who also have Christ in common to help them through any troubles they will inevitably have. Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: 1-Corinthians 15, verses 34-35 is a little more detailed: But it has nothing to do with women priests, it's about people calling out and interrupting meetings. Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: can understand these verses in the context of the society of the time, but not today. No offence, but I tend to take Christianity to mean that what God says is right works outside the confines of how our society changes. The verses I was refering to also point out that a man and woman together take an overseers role. Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: What we know now is not complete. What we prophesy now is not perfect. But when the perfect comes, the things that are not perfect will pass away... 1 Cor 13 - fabulous chapter, especially when understood in context. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
-
I can't justify it in scripture but personally I have no problem with female ministers/priests. But then I'd be very happy to see a woman as Archbishop of Canterbury so maybe that's not surprising... ;P Anna :rose: Homepage | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Archbishop of Canterbury Heard abt the title in Agatha Christie novels :) Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
-
Yes, in the Lutheran Church where I belong the women priests can marry and live a normal life. In the Catholic Church things are very much different. For example,my ex-wife is katholic and we got married in Spain and later divorced in Finland. But I have the feeling that we will be forever considered married in Spain...:omg: jhaga --------------------------------- Every generation laughs at the old fashions, but follows religiously the new. Henry David Thoreau, "Walden", 1854
But isn't divorce given by a court of law? Or is it still by the church? Here in India, divorces are through courts. So if you get divorced through court, you get a valid divorce. But of course marriages can take place through registered religious organisations. Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
-
But isn't divorce given by a court of law? Or is it still by the church? Here in India, divorces are through courts. So if you get divorced through court, you get a valid divorce. But of course marriages can take place through registered religious organisations. Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
Yes, I guess you are right that a court of law can issue a divorce nowadays. During Franco's regime there was no divorce in Spain because state and Church was so inter-connected. But in the Catholic church I will be married until the Pope decides different :) I have always had the feeling that getting married in India is a very complicated thing. You have to think about societal rules regarding cast, creed, natal chart, and financial and social status of the family? Or is India getting more modern in this sence also? jhaga --------------------------------- Every generation laughs at the old fashions, but follows religiously the new. Henry David Thoreau, "Walden", 1854
-
Yes, I guess you are right that a court of law can issue a divorce nowadays. During Franco's regime there was no divorce in Spain because state and Church was so inter-connected. But in the Catholic church I will be married until the Pope decides different :) I have always had the feeling that getting married in India is a very complicated thing. You have to think about societal rules regarding cast, creed, natal chart, and financial and social status of the family? Or is India getting more modern in this sence also? jhaga --------------------------------- Every generation laughs at the old fashions, but follows religiously the new. Henry David Thoreau, "Walden", 1854
jhaga wrote: I have always had the feeling that getting married in India is a very complicated thing. You have to think about societal rules regarding cast, creed, natal chart, and financial and social status of the family? Or is India getting more modern in this sence also? In India, majority of the marriages are still arranged marriages. In that case, marriage is arranged based on all these factors you mentioned. However things are changing in atleast the cities...there are more love marriages and therefore inter-caste, inter-religion marriages now. And its the Hindus who mostly look for a match in the natal charts. People in other religions mostly don't. Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
-
jhaga wrote: I have always had the feeling that getting married in India is a very complicated thing. You have to think about societal rules regarding cast, creed, natal chart, and financial and social status of the family? Or is India getting more modern in this sence also? In India, majority of the marriages are still arranged marriages. In that case, marriage is arranged based on all these factors you mentioned. However things are changing in atleast the cities...there are more love marriages and therefore inter-caste, inter-religion marriages now. And its the Hindus who mostly look for a match in the natal charts. People in other religions mostly don't. Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
Smitha Vijayan wrote: majority of the marriages are still arranged marriages For a westerner that sounds like a destiny worse than death. :) But I have the feeling that it need not be. jhaga --------------------------------- Every generation laughs at the old fashions, but follows religiously the new. Henry David Thoreau, "Walden", 1854
-
Smitha Vijayan wrote: majority of the marriages are still arranged marriages For a westerner that sounds like a destiny worse than death. :) But I have the feeling that it need not be. jhaga --------------------------------- Every generation laughs at the old fashions, but follows religiously the new. Henry David Thoreau, "Walden", 1854
Arranged marriages are not much of a problem here. Differences in individuals exist for both love marraiges and arranged marriages. So problems exist in both cases. But the social setup here makes arranged marriages sail smooth in most cases. And the family ties are so strong here [atleast in the part of India where I live], that couples often get lot of family support to maintain marriages amidst issues if any :) Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
-
Arranged marriages are not much of a problem here. Differences in individuals exist for both love marraiges and arranged marriages. So problems exist in both cases. But the social setup here makes arranged marriages sail smooth in most cases. And the family ties are so strong here [atleast in the part of India where I live], that couples often get lot of family support to maintain marriages amidst issues if any :) Smitha Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
Smitha Vijayan wrote: that couples often get lot of family support to maintain marriages Yes, I am sure that can save many a marriage. And a belief in a spiritual world instead of just trying to make more money..:sigh: jhaga --------------------------------- Every generation laughs at the old fashions, but follows religiously the new. Henry David Thoreau, "Walden", 1854