Tenth anniversary of...
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It may be blasphemous to say so, but Cobain did nothing to improve my life, and I can't see any reason to glorify the memory of a drugged-out whiner who spent his life wallowing in self-pity. The fact that he was a coward who chose the easy way out, with no regard for his friends and family, doesn't increase his charm or improve his music one iota. I've felt much better since I gave up hope.
You got my 5: you saved me a lot of typing :-D I see dumb people
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peterchen wrote: compare your post to your sig :laugh: I see your point, but there's really no contradiction. Hope leads to expectations, expectations lead to disappointment. The Tao embraces non-hope, non-expectation, not as a defeatist attitude, but as a way of letting go of attachments. Each happy moment then becomes a delightful surprise in a world full of surprises.;P I've felt much better since I gave up hope.
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You know, this may be heresy to admit, but I think Nirvana are a terribly overrated band! I have a couple of their albums and despite *wanting* to think they are the best thing since sliced bread, they are rarely (if ever) played... However, Dave Grohl is an AWESOME drummer - he guested on the superb Queens of the Stone Age album "Songs for the Deaf" and should be first choice if Led Zeppellin ever reform for a tour (as is rumoured on an annual basis!). I don't rate his band The Foo Fighter much but he really is a talented guy (and a really nice bloke judging from the interviews I've read). And of course there is Courtney Love... oh dear! What a waste of space she is - I mean, just how far does she want to take this burnt-out rock-chick lifestyle? She seems intent on repeating her husbands mistakes by consuming massive amounts of drugs, which, considering she has a young daughter, isn't terribly cool is it? Thanks for elevating that tired old slapper to celebrity status by killing yourself Kurt!
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OK, that certainly beats western binarity. But, to go with Stan, you either have hope, or you are hopeless. And if you're hopeless, you are the same as Curt Kobain. I win ;)
Flirt harder, I'm a Coder
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygenpeterchen wrote: I win I didn't really hope to convince you...:-D I've felt much better since I gave up hope.
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I can only hope that you say this out of ignorance... Regardless of how anyone feels about the group - musically or otherwise - they inarguably opened the flood gates for punk rock/indie/alternative music into the mainstream. Come on, take a look at the Top 40 stuff in 1990-91; we're talking about Color Me Badd, Paula Abdul, Extreme, etc. If nothing else, these guys got people fired up about music again. They signaled the end of one era and the beginning of another. If that wasn't enough these guys carved out a legacy in ~4 years, which is something that most groups strive to do over an entire career, most with little success. I guess I rate bands by three main factors: 1) How influential they were/are 2) Do people still listen to then many years later? 3) How respected are they by their peers? Imitation is the highest form of flattery... There are only a handful of groups that truly satisfy this criteria and I think Nirvana can be/is one of them. Many people consider Kurt Cobain to have been one of the last 'real rock stars'. I don't entirely know what the hell that means, but man it sounds cool. The thing with Nirvana is that I still hear them on the radio, with decent frequency, given that these tunes are over 10 years old - and the kicker is that it doesn't sound that dated. A better analysis will be to see how they hold up at the 15-20+ year marks. Rolling Stone just released an 'Immortals' issue, summing up who they consider to be the fifty greatest artists of all-time. Did Nirvana make the list? Yes. Did they crack the top 25 of all-time? No. I don't really feel that this web site is a great place to discuss music at all, but since someone threw it out, I figured I'd at least give my 2 cents as well. And come on... give credit where credit it due. PJL
I know my music PJL and I stand by the claim that Nirvana are overrated. Nearly everyone I know has their albums, but they rarely play them. Yes, they were influential - I'm not disputing that - but their subsequent lasting appeal has much to do with the fact Kurt Cobain killed himself. As you said, the music at the time was SHITE - i'm not sure they would of shone so brightly had they have had more competition. Also, they were not the first - listen to some Pixies or My Bloody Valentine - Kurt had influences too. His whole "angst" attitude had as much to do with Nirvanas success as the music - and the whole soap-opera with him and Courtney Love. I rate bands by how good their music makes ME feel, not others, and Nirvana were good, but not THAT good. Of course, this is my opinion. As for Kurt being a "real rock star" - well, the journos love him 'cos he lived fast and died young - not because of his musical talent! The NME are particularly guilty of this "hey, they killed themselevs so they must of been rawk-and-roll!" attitude.
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I know my music PJL and I stand by the claim that Nirvana are overrated. Nearly everyone I know has their albums, but they rarely play them. Yes, they were influential - I'm not disputing that - but their subsequent lasting appeal has much to do with the fact Kurt Cobain killed himself. As you said, the music at the time was SHITE - i'm not sure they would of shone so brightly had they have had more competition. Also, they were not the first - listen to some Pixies or My Bloody Valentine - Kurt had influences too. His whole "angst" attitude had as much to do with Nirvanas success as the music - and the whole soap-opera with him and Courtney Love. I rate bands by how good their music makes ME feel, not others, and Nirvana were good, but not THAT good. Of course, this is my opinion. As for Kurt being a "real rock star" - well, the journos love him 'cos he lived fast and died young - not because of his musical talent! The NME are particularly guilty of this "hey, they killed themselevs so they must of been rawk-and-roll!" attitude.
Pixies kicked arse :)
Jeremy Kimball Moderation is for monks. -Lazarus Long And this, too, shall pass away...
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What I want to know is why the news (something last night) said that it wasn't an OD after all, but was suicide? Um, excuse me (/me waves hand in the air). He put a shutgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. If he OD'd on anything, it was lead! Stupid news media.
Microsoft MVP, Visual C# My Articles
:laugh: Today, X number of people died today from lead overdoses... Does sound better than "gunned down on the street"...
Jeremy Kimball Moderation is for monks. -Lazarus Long And this, too, shall pass away...
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In your opinion Lauren. In mine, The Pixies piss all over Nirvana from a great height. So, because I think Nirvana are over-rated that makes me square? Oooo ... "call the karma police! Someone has expressed an opinion I don't agree with!". Grow up Lauren.
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In your opinion Lauren. In mine, The Pixies piss all over Nirvana from a great height. So, because I think Nirvana are over-rated that makes me square? Oooo ... "call the karma police! Someone has expressed an opinion I don't agree with!". Grow up Lauren.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50601-2004Apr4.html[^] ... Kurt Cobain's death. :rose: And why he would want us to stop eulogizing and move on...and why we can't "Fortunately I had given him a false name" said Ukridge "Why ?" I cried amazed "Just an ordinary business precaution" he replied
Really don't miss him, though its not nice for someone to kill themself. Never really rated them very highly as a band. Though I thought the Foofighters were an improvement.
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
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How old ARE you Lauren? I used to think you were an adult, now I'm not so sure. What a damn shame - and just because I disagree with you on how good Nirvana are!
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How old ARE you Lauren? I used to think you were an adult, now I'm not so sure. What a damn shame - and just because I disagree with you on how good Nirvana are!
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It may be blasphemous to say so, but Cobain did nothing to improve my life, and I can't see any reason to glorify the memory of a drugged-out whiner who spent his life wallowing in self-pity. The fact that he was a coward who chose the easy way out, with no regard for his friends and family, doesn't increase his charm or improve his music one iota. I've felt much better since I gave up hope.
Ouch! :-D Ant.
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In your opinion Lauren. In mine, The Pixies piss all over Nirvana from a great height. So, because I think Nirvana are over-rated that makes me square? Oooo ... "call the karma police! Someone has expressed an opinion I don't agree with!". Grow up Lauren.
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: The Pixies piss all over Nirvana from a great height. While I reserve the right to disagree with your opinion, I admire the phrasing!:-D I've felt much better since I gave up hope.
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Pixies kicked arse :)
Jeremy Kimball Moderation is for monks. -Lazarus Long And this, too, shall pass away...
Amazing how so few people know of their work today too - "Who?" is the usual response when I mention them in the office! And they are doing a tour - sold out here in the UK in minutes. They are doing a few festivals though so there's hope yet...
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Amazing how so few people know of their work today too - "Who?" is the usual response when I mention them in the office! And they are doing a tour - sold out here in the UK in minutes. They are doing a few festivals though so there's hope yet...
I have to admit I knew only a little bit about them until my current gf came into the picture...she's nuts over them. I only knew of a few songs by them before that...of course, my favorite was (and still is) "Where is my mind?", although I heard it before Fight Club made it semi-popular...
Jeremy Kimball Moderation is for monks. -Lazarus Long And this, too, shall pass away...
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I know my music PJL and I stand by the claim that Nirvana are overrated. Nearly everyone I know has their albums, but they rarely play them. Yes, they were influential - I'm not disputing that - but their subsequent lasting appeal has much to do with the fact Kurt Cobain killed himself. As you said, the music at the time was SHITE - i'm not sure they would of shone so brightly had they have had more competition. Also, they were not the first - listen to some Pixies or My Bloody Valentine - Kurt had influences too. His whole "angst" attitude had as much to do with Nirvanas success as the music - and the whole soap-opera with him and Courtney Love. I rate bands by how good their music makes ME feel, not others, and Nirvana were good, but not THAT good. Of course, this is my opinion. As for Kurt being a "real rock star" - well, the journos love him 'cos he lived fast and died young - not because of his musical talent! The NME are particularly guilty of this "hey, they killed themselevs so they must of been rawk-and-roll!" attitude.
Come on, everyone has their influences! I have never, nor would I, claim that Nirvana was the first to define the genre. No one's arguing that. Of course I wouldn't make this argument if I didn't enjoy their music as much as I do. Maybe it's just me, but what you & your buddies listen to and think may not be a balanced view nor does it probably reflect the overall opinion of their music. I'm not saying you have to like these guys or think they're the best thing to come out of the 90s, but at some level you have to agree these guys made a big dent in the history of music. I say this because I believe it as do a large amount of other people. And not just random people that I know, but critics - and more importantly - people/peers in the industry. For example, The Rolling Stones are a group that I'm not particularly fond of. I'm not sure why; I'm just not blown away by them. However, they paved the way for an uncountable number of bands, as well as an entire generation and genre. It would be completely out of line for me to write them off as an 'overrated' band, soley because of me and/or my friends own personal feelings. As you pointed out, I don't hear people talking about how they're constantly spinning up Rolling Stones discs, but that has nothing to do with how great they were and what impact they had. All I'm trying to say is that if you weren't particularly moved by their music, great, that's your opinion and good for you for having one. But it's stubborn to question the impact they had on the music industry. I also don't think his suicide is what sustains their legacy. There's plenty of people in the 27 club whos music way over shadows how they died. Likewise, there are a substantial amount of people who have killed themselves and it did nothing additional to sustain/promote their music. I dig your opinion about their music, nothing new there, but trying to ignore or sidestep the accomplishments of the group is uninsightful. I don't doubt that you may be knowledgable in music, but being able to say what's good/bad/overrated/etc goes much more beyond personal opinion.
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Amazing how so few people know of their work today too - "Who?" is the usual response when I mention them in the office! And they are doing a tour - sold out here in the UK in minutes. They are doing a few festivals though so there's hope yet...
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You know, this may be heresy to admit, but I think Nirvana are a terribly overrated band! I have a couple of their albums and despite *wanting* to think they are the best thing since sliced bread, they are rarely (if ever) played... However, Dave Grohl is an AWESOME drummer - he guested on the superb Queens of the Stone Age album "Songs for the Deaf" and should be first choice if Led Zeppellin ever reform for a tour (as is rumoured on an annual basis!). I don't rate his band The Foo Fighter much but he really is a talented guy (and a really nice bloke judging from the interviews I've read). And of course there is Courtney Love... oh dear! What a waste of space she is - I mean, just how far does she want to take this burnt-out rock-chick lifestyle? She seems intent on repeating her husbands mistakes by consuming massive amounts of drugs, which, considering she has a young daughter, isn't terribly cool is it? Thanks for elevating that tired old slapper to celebrity status by killing yourself Kurt!
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: I have a couple of their albums and despite *wanting* to think they are the best thing since sliced bread, they are rarely (if ever) played... No offense, Rob, but that's a terrible metric. I don't know anyone who listens to the same records day-in/day-out any significant length of time (with perhaps the exception of those dipsy teens who call in requests to top-40 radio stations for songs that are in the top-40... but i digress). For instance - i'm currently on a Pink Floyd/Roger Waters kick, but have also started listening to my Rammstein CDs again after nearly two years where i didn't touch them. Meanwhile, one of my brothers is rotating between Jackson Browne and Frank Sinatra, along with his Gin Blossoms CDs that haven't been touched in a good 6 years at least! My suggestion: stop trying to like Nirvana ("*wanting* to think they are the best thing since sliced bread"), and just let the records gather dust until you actually *do* want to listen to them. If you're in a Pixies mood, then Nirvana will only sound like a cheap knock-off - so listen to The Pixies! Nirvana has something else to offer, but if you don't need it, then don't go looking for it. IMHO, this is true for most music. The bees will find their honey; The sweetest every time...