Average Longhorn System?
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I saw that too and if you read it says "That's according to developer sources close to the company.". So not an official statement by Microsoft at all and "close to the company" could mean anything from external contractors to the tea lady. Guess it is a toss up of "developer sources" vs. what that Scobles chap said. Honestly, I don't care much. By the time it rolls out sufficiently we should mostly have hardware capable of it. Every new version of Windows has brought out scare-mongers about required hardware. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Christopher Duncan quoted: "...that would require my explaining Einstein's Fear of Relatives" Crikey! ain't life grand? XmlTransformer, my latest CP article.
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Heh. By the time Longhorn actually comes out, you'll be able to buy machines like that at the dollar store. "Fish and guests stink in three days." - Benjamin Franlkin
Navin wrote: Heh. By the time Longhorn actually comes out, you'll be able to buy machines like that at the dollar store. I hardly think so. If I configure a Dell workstation to approach these requirements, I get a $7,701 price tag: Dell Precision Workstation 650 Dual Intel Zeon 3.20 Ghz processors Windows XP 2GB RAM dual 400GB SATA hard drives nVidia, QuadroFX 3000, 256MB, dual monitor DVI or VGA capable 17 inch Dell (16.0 inch vis) M782 Flat Screen CRT Monitor Frankly, 4-6Ghz dual-core CPU's or dual CPU's are going to be top of the line, and systems like the one above are going to still be in the $2K-$3K price range. What business is, in their right mind, going to upgrade all their workstations just so they can have cute vector graphics rendered buttons? What's the business sense in this? Yeah, sure, you could have asked the same question about upgrading to XP. Well, frankly, all my clients have asked, and some have been mighty reluctant to upgrade. In fact, one was finally forced to because the accounting software they use no longer supports Windows 98. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog
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Navin wrote: Heh. By the time Longhorn actually comes out, you'll be able to buy machines like that at the dollar store. I hardly think so. If I configure a Dell workstation to approach these requirements, I get a $7,701 price tag: Dell Precision Workstation 650 Dual Intel Zeon 3.20 Ghz processors Windows XP 2GB RAM dual 400GB SATA hard drives nVidia, QuadroFX 3000, 256MB, dual monitor DVI or VGA capable 17 inch Dell (16.0 inch vis) M782 Flat Screen CRT Monitor Frankly, 4-6Ghz dual-core CPU's or dual CPU's are going to be top of the line, and systems like the one above are going to still be in the $2K-$3K price range. What business is, in their right mind, going to upgrade all their workstations just so they can have cute vector graphics rendered buttons? What's the business sense in this? Yeah, sure, you could have asked the same question about upgrading to XP. Well, frankly, all my clients have asked, and some have been mighty reluctant to upgrade. In fact, one was finally forced to because the accounting software they use no longer supports Windows 98. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog
When you put it that way Marc it really doesn't make any sense to upgrade!! Ant.
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Navin wrote: Heh. By the time Longhorn actually comes out, you'll be able to buy machines like that at the dollar store. I hardly think so. If I configure a Dell workstation to approach these requirements, I get a $7,701 price tag: Dell Precision Workstation 650 Dual Intel Zeon 3.20 Ghz processors Windows XP 2GB RAM dual 400GB SATA hard drives nVidia, QuadroFX 3000, 256MB, dual monitor DVI or VGA capable 17 inch Dell (16.0 inch vis) M782 Flat Screen CRT Monitor Frankly, 4-6Ghz dual-core CPU's or dual CPU's are going to be top of the line, and systems like the one above are going to still be in the $2K-$3K price range. What business is, in their right mind, going to upgrade all their workstations just so they can have cute vector graphics rendered buttons? What's the business sense in this? Yeah, sure, you could have asked the same question about upgrading to XP. Well, frankly, all my clients have asked, and some have been mighty reluctant to upgrade. In fact, one was finally forced to because the accounting software they use no longer supports Windows 98. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog
Easy now, it's just rumours. From "developers close to the company", as Paus say, that could be the tea lady... I hate people that say "I will never upgrade, as the system requirements are sooooo high" about an OS that is not going to be released for the next 2.5 years. Acording to mores law, we will have something like 8GHz computers then as the standard for new machines... Please, all of you, nothing personally Marc, please do think! I mean, we all know how long time 2.5 years actually is in this business right? 2.5 years ago I was pretty happy with my PIII 500, now I have a dual Xeon 2.8 (and have had that for the last year already) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
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Easy now, it's just rumours. From "developers close to the company", as Paus say, that could be the tea lady... I hate people that say "I will never upgrade, as the system requirements are sooooo high" about an OS that is not going to be released for the next 2.5 years. Acording to mores law, we will have something like 8GHz computers then as the standard for new machines... Please, all of you, nothing personally Marc, please do think! I mean, we all know how long time 2.5 years actually is in this business right? 2.5 years ago I was pretty happy with my PIII 500, now I have a dual Xeon 2.8 (and have had that for the last year already) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
Anders Molin wrote: I hate people that say "I will never upgrade, as the system requirements are sooooo high" about an OS that is not going to be released for the next 2.5 years. Oh, I'm sure I'll upgrade, at least to something. But I think that the real question, for the business community, is whether the upgrade is justified. So far, nobody in this thread or the other thread I posted has directly answered the question "what justifies the upgrade?" We've read what Longhorn can do. Some of us have tried it (not me, BTW). Asking this question now is only good planning. So. Ignore the hardware requirements, if it makes it easier. What justification is there for upgrading to Longhorn? What do I tell my clients? Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog
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Anders Molin wrote: I hate people that say "I will never upgrade, as the system requirements are sooooo high" about an OS that is not going to be released for the next 2.5 years. Oh, I'm sure I'll upgrade, at least to something. But I think that the real question, for the business community, is whether the upgrade is justified. So far, nobody in this thread or the other thread I posted has directly answered the question "what justifies the upgrade?" We've read what Longhorn can do. Some of us have tried it (not me, BTW). Asking this question now is only good planning. So. Ignore the hardware requirements, if it makes it easier. What justification is there for upgrading to Longhorn? What do I tell my clients? Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog
Marc Clifton wrote: What justification is there for upgrading to Longhorn? What do I tell my clients? That depends on the clients needs. Every business have different needs, so there in no general guide there. If they onlu have their computers for some simple bookkeeping they can probably do that in DOS ;) If they are a high-tech animation company their needs are diffenret... - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
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Easy now, it's just rumours. From "developers close to the company", as Paus say, that could be the tea lady... I hate people that say "I will never upgrade, as the system requirements are sooooo high" about an OS that is not going to be released for the next 2.5 years. Acording to mores law, we will have something like 8GHz computers then as the standard for new machines... Please, all of you, nothing personally Marc, please do think! I mean, we all know how long time 2.5 years actually is in this business right? 2.5 years ago I was pretty happy with my PIII 500, now I have a dual Xeon 2.8 (and have had that for the last year already) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
I've always felt that Moore's law should be considered a cute joke, or an astute observation covering a few decades of computer development, but nothing more. You can always look for trends in any data, but that's all Moore's law describes. And it's not like the trend is absolute. Imagine if terrorists simultaneously bombed Intel and AMD headquarters and all the fabs owned by them; would Moore's law magically continue its trend? Nope. We're just now coming to a time when hard-and-fast problems with shrinking dies and other tricks that fed into Moore's "law" nicely are making those strategies harder to continue. Moore's law doesn't accurately describe the beginning end of the development curve in computers: from the Babbage computing device or the Jacquard loom or even the human/abacus combination onward. (Yes, I've read a claim by someone that the abacus was the first computer.) It's also obvious to me that it can't describe the other end of the development chain. Also, as we progress, it's likely that we'll reach more stumbling blocks that require shifts to new technologies, which will roughen the graph quite a bit. -Jeff here, bloggy bloggy
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I've always felt that Moore's law should be considered a cute joke, or an astute observation covering a few decades of computer development, but nothing more. You can always look for trends in any data, but that's all Moore's law describes. And it's not like the trend is absolute. Imagine if terrorists simultaneously bombed Intel and AMD headquarters and all the fabs owned by them; would Moore's law magically continue its trend? Nope. We're just now coming to a time when hard-and-fast problems with shrinking dies and other tricks that fed into Moore's "law" nicely are making those strategies harder to continue. Moore's law doesn't accurately describe the beginning end of the development curve in computers: from the Babbage computing device or the Jacquard loom or even the human/abacus combination onward. (Yes, I've read a claim by someone that the abacus was the first computer.) It's also obvious to me that it can't describe the other end of the development chain. Also, as we progress, it's likely that we'll reach more stumbling blocks that require shifts to new technologies, which will roughen the graph quite a bit. -Jeff here, bloggy bloggy
I never said it was an absolute fact, but moores law have profed very acurate in the last years, so it's the best we have when guessing about the future. What happens if the teorrorists bomb MS instead, and get all the backups destroyed and all their devs. killed? Then we wont get longhorn until 2010 instead of 2006, and then computers will be even faster... ;) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
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Marc Clifton wrote: What justification is there for upgrading to Longhorn? What do I tell my clients? That depends on the clients needs. Every business have different needs, so there in no general guide there. If they onlu have their computers for some simple bookkeeping they can probably do that in DOS ;) If they are a high-tech animation company their needs are diffenret... - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
Well, right. Still, although modern OSes are partly about interface, the most valuable part of any OS is just its ability to run programs in a fast and stable manner. If Windows XP is properly optimized and stable, I have to say that although they might be able to optimize it further, the successive gains from optimization cycles will get smaller and smaller as they approach the true optimum for their approach. I don't need features like an XML-based file storage system, just like I don't need big, fancy menus to organize my media; hence, I haven't installed Longhorn beta or Windows Media Center. The first thing I do, when I set up a new XP machine, is turn off all the fading effects and everything else, and revert to the Windows classic look and feel. Anybody else do the same thing? Although providing a LAF engine that accepts plugins was a great idea, the XP look and feel stinks compared to that of Windows 2000; everything's rounded and faded and antialiased, all of which winds up in both wasted pixels and eyestrain. I don't use any features of XP that didn't come with 2000 except the built-in firewall; the enhancements I appreciate most are in stability and speed. The thing is, OS and application vendors are going to have a tougher and tougher sell going forward, because the need to change to a new version is getting genuinely less and less for sensible people. Hence the latest blather about switching to a subscription model for all software; big software vendors are deathly afraid of a day when their only new sales of perpetual licenses are to new companies or individuals. -Jeff here, bloggy bloggy
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Avalon - the gfx engine on longhorn will use 3d hw acceleration for graphics, so id expect it to run quite nicely on any machine with a 3d hw enabled card. i mean , its windows , its square boxes with text on that is going to be rendered , in some occasions rounded squares or maybe even shaped form ,but its still flat windows with text on. if my old machine can render ut2004 it can render windows , im sure. //Roger
This is so true. :-D Only Absolute Power and Absolutely No power matters. The rest is slavery.
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From Microsoft: Microsoft is expected to recommend that the 'average' Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today. I'll stick with Win2K, thank you very much. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
I have a different take on what Microsoft is doing, which may help explain their current tact with Longhorn. Longhorn today's NT. If you recall, NT 3.11 was a major step forward for Windows and simply didn't run on your average consumer system. As it turns out, this wasn't a terrible thing since it allowed Microsoft to make major changes to NT with relatively little distruption (certainly less than the Windows 3.x/95 transition.) Had the fiascoes of NT 3.5x happened with, say, Windows 2000, it would have been devastating. As it turns out, NT 4.0 was incredibly solid and popular and W2k even moreso. I think Microsoft is currently doing the same with Longhorn. The first release will be aimed at and adopted mostly by developers and the windows geek community. The real moneymaker, the NT 4 so to speak, is Longhorn 2.0, which will come out in 2010/2011, during the subsequent depreciation triggered upgrade cycle. By that time, there will be a critical mass of Longhorn apps and hardware companies will have tuned their offerings to Longhorn. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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I have a different take on what Microsoft is doing, which may help explain their current tact with Longhorn. Longhorn today's NT. If you recall, NT 3.11 was a major step forward for Windows and simply didn't run on your average consumer system. As it turns out, this wasn't a terrible thing since it allowed Microsoft to make major changes to NT with relatively little distruption (certainly less than the Windows 3.x/95 transition.) Had the fiascoes of NT 3.5x happened with, say, Windows 2000, it would have been devastating. As it turns out, NT 4.0 was incredibly solid and popular and W2k even moreso. I think Microsoft is currently doing the same with Longhorn. The first release will be aimed at and adopted mostly by developers and the windows geek community. The real moneymaker, the NT 4 so to speak, is Longhorn 2.0, which will come out in 2010/2011, during the subsequent depreciation triggered upgrade cycle. By that time, there will be a critical mass of Longhorn apps and hardware companies will have tuned their offerings to Longhorn. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Hmmm, that sounds about right :) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
