Multicultural question
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Stan Shannon wrote: Do muslims have chat rooms where they register their disdain and contempt for other muslims who violate Islamic values? Sure we have forums that discuss such things. however,maybe we tend to focus our discussions towards our bad conditions caused by external reasons (Israeli attacks against palestine , US war against Iraq). this maybe because we believe that most of our problems are caused by some external forces.Also because declaring that you are against you government in many middle-east countries can cause you serious troubles.(note that many of these governments are strongly supported by western forces, including Saddam himself that USA supported for years) But when internet started to spread widely.. We can discuss these things more freely. and we do disdain actions that violates the Islamic religion.. we just wish that western countries that used to use our governors for its own benefit stop this .. and let us choose the way to establish a real democracy our way .. not the american way.
hspc wrote: and let us choose the way to establish a real democracy our way .. not the american way. Even for a democracy, Islamic laws are dreadful if they are forced on citizens. People need to be need to be left alone to make choices for themselves unless they interfere with the right of others .
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Stan Shannon wrote: Do muslims have chat rooms where they register their disdain and contempt for other muslims who violate Islamic values? Sure we have forums that discuss such things. however,maybe we tend to focus our discussions towards our bad conditions caused by external reasons (Israeli attacks against palestine , US war against Iraq). this maybe because we believe that most of our problems are caused by some external forces.Also because declaring that you are against you government in many middle-east countries can cause you serious troubles.(note that many of these governments are strongly supported by western forces, including Saddam himself that USA supported for years) But when internet started to spread widely.. We can discuss these things more freely. and we do disdain actions that violates the Islamic religion.. we just wish that western countries that used to use our governors for its own benefit stop this .. and let us choose the way to establish a real democracy our way .. not the american way.
hspc wrote: and let us choose the way to establish a real democracy our way .. not the american way. Even in a democracy, Islamic laws are dreadful if they are forced on citizens. People need to be need to be left alone to make choices for themselves unless they interfere with the right of others .
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Stan Shannon wrote: Or, are such protestations more a result of political orientation? Mass hysteria. Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog
Marc Clifton wrote: Mass hysteria. Cats and dogs, living together... -- Russell Morris "So, broccoli, mother says you're good for me... but I'm afraid I'm no good for you!" - Stewy
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Stan Shannon wrote: Do muslims have chat rooms where they register their disdain and contempt for other muslims who violate Islamic values? Sure we have forums that discuss such things. however,maybe we tend to focus our discussions towards our bad conditions caused by external reasons (Israeli attacks against palestine , US war against Iraq). this maybe because we believe that most of our problems are caused by some external forces.Also because declaring that you are against you government in many middle-east countries can cause you serious troubles.(note that many of these governments are strongly supported by western forces, including Saddam himself that USA supported for years) But when internet started to spread widely.. We can discuss these things more freely. and we do disdain actions that violates the Islamic religion.. we just wish that western countries that used to use our governors for its own benefit stop this .. and let us choose the way to establish a real democracy our way .. not the american way.
hspc wrote: we just wish that western countries that used to use our governors for its own benefit stop this That will never happen, please be realistic. :-D
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hspc wrote: and let us choose the way to establish a real democracy our way .. not the american way. Even for a democracy, Islamic laws are dreadful if they are forced on citizens. People need to be need to be left alone to make choices for themselves unless they interfere with the right of others .
Anonymous wrote: Even for a democracy, Islamic laws are dreadful if they are forced on citizens. People need to be need to be left alone to make choices for themselves unless they interfere with the right of others . How can you tell ? Where do you get in formation about islam and how do you interpret them ? From Zionist media ?
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hspc wrote: we just wish that western countries that used to use our governors for its own benefit stop this That will never happen, please be realistic. :-D
Anonymously wrote: That will never happen, please be realistic. ;P ok..One day or another this will happen,, by their free will or by force..History tells theis :)
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Anonymous wrote: Even for a democracy, Islamic laws are dreadful if they are forced on citizens. People need to be need to be left alone to make choices for themselves unless they interfere with the right of others . How can you tell ? Where do you get in formation about islam and how do you interpret them ? From Zionist media ?
hspc wrote: Where do you get in formation about islam and how do you interpret them ? "Why I am Not a Muslim", by IBN WARRAQ for one. My own attempt at reading the Quaran for another, plus many more. The only democracy that exists in a predominately Muslim nation, Turkey, only gives lip service to freedom of religion from all that I have read. So, just how does that support the notion of democracy? Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy Me "Kerry is a girl's name." Conan O'Brian "I've spoken to many world leaders - they all look at me and say, you've got to win. I just can't tell you who they are." J.F.Kerry
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hspc wrote: Where do you get in formation about islam and how do you interpret them ? "Why I am Not a Muslim", by IBN WARRAQ for one. My own attempt at reading the Quaran for another, plus many more. The only democracy that exists in a predominately Muslim nation, Turkey, only gives lip service to freedom of religion from all that I have read. So, just how does that support the notion of democracy? Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy Me "Kerry is a girl's name." Conan O'Brian "I've spoken to many world leaders - they all look at me and say, you've got to win. I just can't tell you who they are." J.F.Kerry
give yourself another chance :) islamonline[^] introducing islam Mike Gaskey wrote: The only democracy that exists in a predominately Muslim nation, Turkey, only gives lip service to freedom of religion from all that I have read. So, just how does that support the notion of democracy? I don't consider turkey niether a democratic country nor an islamic country.
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Do muslims have chat rooms where they register their disdain and contempt for other muslims who violate Islamic values? I just wonder because the recent abuses of prisoners in Iraq seems to have provoked a response nearly equivalent to that of 9/11 itself among many westerners. We westerners seem to have a tendency to be hyper-critical of our own cultural failings. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but I do wonder if other cultures display the same tendencies? Or, ironically, do we do it because we simply believe ourselves to be culturally superior to others and obligated therefore to remain morally aloof? Or, are such protestations more a result of political orientation? "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
Hi, I think democracy cannot work unless the people of society are educated in the sense of making rational choices. With most Arab countries the people have been so oppressed over the ages, they can use some outside help. I am not talking about creating a war, but help in setting up educational institutes, making people realize the potential and giving them a vision of a country with economic, social and cultural opportunities. Also, religion should be a personal thing for people. You cannot talk about a democracy and religion at the same time because one religious idea is not fit for everyone. People approach religion through their own experiences, faith and capacities. However, a democracy has to encompass all these different beliefs and make sure they co-exist. However, laws based on religious models will never work in a true democracy. People have to stop thinking in terms of Muslim countries or Christian countries or Buddhist countries etc. For things to really work out well, they all have to be able to co-exist side by side. This is the promise of a true democracy, not just in terms of religion but other aspects of society as well. My 2 cents. Best always, Pankaj Without struggle, there is no progress
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Do muslims have chat rooms where they register their disdain and contempt for other muslims who violate Islamic values? I just wonder because the recent abuses of prisoners in Iraq seems to have provoked a response nearly equivalent to that of 9/11 itself among many westerners. We westerners seem to have a tendency to be hyper-critical of our own cultural failings. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but I do wonder if other cultures display the same tendencies? Or, ironically, do we do it because we simply believe ourselves to be culturally superior to others and obligated therefore to remain morally aloof? Or, are such protestations more a result of political orientation? "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
Stan Shannon wrote: Or, ironically, do we do it because we simply believe ourselves to be culturally superior to others and obligated therefore to remain morally aloof? If there is an issue about superiority then it isn't just our opinion of ourself. obviously even the arabs think we are superior - otherwise why would an entire village of them hoot and holler and raise their fists just because they shot down 1 measelly helicopter? Why would they need to drag our bodies through the streets to cheering crowds? They don't behave that way when they kill each other. They must somehow feel that killing an American is a mighty thing to do and deserving of such a triumphant display.
Glano perictu com sahni delorin!
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Hi, I think democracy cannot work unless the people of society are educated in the sense of making rational choices. With most Arab countries the people have been so oppressed over the ages, they can use some outside help. I am not talking about creating a war, but help in setting up educational institutes, making people realize the potential and giving them a vision of a country with economic, social and cultural opportunities. Also, religion should be a personal thing for people. You cannot talk about a democracy and religion at the same time because one religious idea is not fit for everyone. People approach religion through their own experiences, faith and capacities. However, a democracy has to encompass all these different beliefs and make sure they co-exist. However, laws based on religious models will never work in a true democracy. People have to stop thinking in terms of Muslim countries or Christian countries or Buddhist countries etc. For things to really work out well, they all have to be able to co-exist side by side. This is the promise of a true democracy, not just in terms of religion but other aspects of society as well. My 2 cents. Best always, Pankaj Without struggle, there is no progress
Well done. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy Me "Kerry is a girl's name." Conan O'Brian "I've spoken to many world leaders - they all look at me and say, you've got to win. I just can't tell you who they are." J.F.Kerry
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Hi, I think democracy cannot work unless the people of society are educated in the sense of making rational choices. With most Arab countries the people have been so oppressed over the ages, they can use some outside help. I am not talking about creating a war, but help in setting up educational institutes, making people realize the potential and giving them a vision of a country with economic, social and cultural opportunities. Also, religion should be a personal thing for people. You cannot talk about a democracy and religion at the same time because one religious idea is not fit for everyone. People approach religion through their own experiences, faith and capacities. However, a democracy has to encompass all these different beliefs and make sure they co-exist. However, laws based on religious models will never work in a true democracy. People have to stop thinking in terms of Muslim countries or Christian countries or Buddhist countries etc. For things to really work out well, they all have to be able to co-exist side by side. This is the promise of a true democracy, not just in terms of religion but other aspects of society as well. My 2 cents. Best always, Pankaj Without struggle, there is no progress
Extremely well put! 5 :-D
Paul Lyons, CCPL
Certified Code Project Lurker -
Anonymous wrote: Even for a democracy, Islamic laws are dreadful if they are forced on citizens. People need to be need to be left alone to make choices for themselves unless they interfere with the right of others . How can you tell ? Where do you get in formation about islam and how do you interpret them ? From Zionist media ?
hspc wrote: Where do you get in formation about islam and how do you interpret them ? From Zionist media ? Doesn't Quran teach murder of the infidels, chopping hands of petty thieves, stoning adulterers and beheading apostates? http://freethoughts.org/wesslog/archives/2004_01.html[^]
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Stan Shannon wrote: Or, ironically, do we do it because we simply believe ourselves to be culturally superior to others and obligated therefore to remain morally aloof? If there is an issue about superiority then it isn't just our opinion of ourself. obviously even the arabs think we are superior - otherwise why would an entire village of them hoot and holler and raise their fists just because they shot down 1 measelly helicopter? Why would they need to drag our bodies through the streets to cheering crowds? They don't behave that way when they kill each other. They must somehow feel that killing an American is a mighty thing to do and deserving of such a triumphant display.
Glano perictu com sahni delorin!
So why do American / british soldiers celebrate their victory by abuses against prisoners ? Why nuding them ? isn't this because they believe that these prisoners have something valuable that they did not experience in their countries ? somehthing like dignity ?
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hspc wrote: Where do you get in formation about islam and how do you interpret them ? From Zionist media ? Doesn't Quran teach murder of the infidels, chopping hands of petty thieves, stoning adulterers and beheading apostates? http://freethoughts.org/wesslog/archives/2004_01.html[^]
this is the question again : how do you interpret them ? murder of the infidels when they invade muslims or forbid them from applying their religion freely. chopping hands of petty thieves because in cases they steal to get more wealth not because they need food. stoning adulterers (also not all cases) Because they really cause destructive effects on the society (look at western scieties where the term familiy will deisappear) beheading apostates: in case they try to spoil the whole society.. they are free to think as they like.
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Hi, I think democracy cannot work unless the people of society are educated in the sense of making rational choices. With most Arab countries the people have been so oppressed over the ages, they can use some outside help. I am not talking about creating a war, but help in setting up educational institutes, making people realize the potential and giving them a vision of a country with economic, social and cultural opportunities. Also, religion should be a personal thing for people. You cannot talk about a democracy and religion at the same time because one religious idea is not fit for everyone. People approach religion through their own experiences, faith and capacities. However, a democracy has to encompass all these different beliefs and make sure they co-exist. However, laws based on religious models will never work in a true democracy. People have to stop thinking in terms of Muslim countries or Christian countries or Buddhist countries etc. For things to really work out well, they all have to be able to co-exist side by side. This is the promise of a true democracy, not just in terms of religion but other aspects of society as well. My 2 cents. Best always, Pankaj Without struggle, there is no progress
It would be interesting to see a list of which countries censor and monitor internet access. I believe China is one of the worst for this. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
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hspc wrote: Where do you get in formation about islam and how do you interpret them ? From Zionist media ? Doesn't Quran teach murder of the infidels, chopping hands of petty thieves, stoning adulterers and beheading apostates? http://freethoughts.org/wesslog/archives/2004_01.html[^]
Yes, just like the good old bible, and probably many other "divine" texts. Remember, these books were written in an age when people killed eachother rather than settling a dispute with words. -- Booohoo!
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So why do American / british soldiers celebrate their victory by abuses against prisoners ? Why nuding them ? isn't this because they believe that these prisoners have something valuable that they did not experience in their countries ? somehthing like dignity ?
hspc wrote: So why do American / british soldiers celebrate their victory by abuses against prisoners ? Why nuding them ? I hope you aren't foolish enough to think that is why they are doing it. The humiulation regime is being implemented by CIA and DIA interrogators. The military MPs there are there to run the prison. They aren't the ones who decide what to do to the prisoners.