Colin Powell in Scottish Arms Search
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US Secretary of State Colin Powell has applied for a coat of arms to mark his Scottish ancestry.[^] Bet you thought this was going to be about something else.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
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US Secretary of State Colin Powell has applied for a coat of arms to mark his Scottish ancestry.[^] Bet you thought this was going to be about something else.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
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There is nothing mundane about pronouncing names correctly. So far, no one has pronounced my first name wrongly to me - although I did get asked once to confirm the pronounciation. My surname on the other hand gets misprounounced by just about anyone who is not Scottish, with a few exceptions. On one occasion a person said, but you don't pronounce the "AY" like that in English, but since my surname is not in English those rules don't apply. (Mackay is, apparently, from the Scots Gaelic and means Son of Hugh. Mac/Mc means "Son of") For the removal of doubt, my surname is correctly pronounced thusly: Mack (like the truck, but not like the Mc in McDonalds which is "Mick" [although most people prounounce them so similarly you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference]) ay (is a dipthong, in other words you start with an "ah" sound and slide it to an "ee")
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
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There is nothing mundane about pronouncing names correctly. So far, no one has pronounced my first name wrongly to me - although I did get asked once to confirm the pronounciation. My surname on the other hand gets misprounounced by just about anyone who is not Scottish, with a few exceptions. On one occasion a person said, but you don't pronounce the "AY" like that in English, but since my surname is not in English those rules don't apply. (Mackay is, apparently, from the Scots Gaelic and means Son of Hugh. Mac/Mc means "Son of") For the removal of doubt, my surname is correctly pronounced thusly: Mack (like the truck, but not like the Mc in McDonalds which is "Mick" [although most people prounounce them so similarly you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference]) ay (is a dipthong, in other words you start with an "ah" sound and slide it to an "ee")
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
Colin Angus Mackay wrote: For the removal of doubt, my surname is correctly pronounced thusly: Mack (like the truck, but not like the Mc in McDonalds which is "Mick" [although most people prounounce them so similarly you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference]) ay (is a dipthong, in other words you start with an "ah" sound and slide it to an "ee") Just like "Mr Mackay" from Porridge then. Michael CP Blog [^]
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: For the removal of doubt, my surname is correctly pronounced thusly: Mack (like the truck, but not like the Mc in McDonalds which is "Mick" [although most people prounounce them so similarly you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference]) ay (is a dipthong, in other words you start with an "ah" sound and slide it to an "ee") Just like "Mr Mackay" from Porridge then. Michael CP Blog [^]
Michael P Butler wrote: Just like "Mr Mackay" from Porridge then Yes, but since most people here probably haven't ever watched Porridge I thought I better explain it.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
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US Secretary of State Colin Powell has applied for a coat of arms to mark his Scottish ancestry.[^] Bet you thought this was going to be about something else.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
Ok, educate me a little. I thought that the English coat of arms only applied to those knighted and was only transferable to the eldest son. I would have thought that Scotland would be similar. Is this assumption all wet? or have the rules changed "with a fee"? I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
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Ok, educate me a little. I thought that the English coat of arms only applied to those knighted and was only transferable to the eldest son. I would have thought that Scotland would be similar. Is this assumption all wet? or have the rules changed "with a fee"? I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
Coats of arms must have been created at some point in the past. Therefore there must still be a mechanism today where by a new coat of arms can be created. Once created it probably will pass to the eldest son. However, I really don't know enough about the subject to comment.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
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Coats of arms must have been created at some point in the past. Therefore there must still be a mechanism today where by a new coat of arms can be created. Once created it probably will pass to the eldest son. However, I really don't know enough about the subject to comment.
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
The definitive authority in Scotland is the Court of the Lord Lyon, King of Arms. The Lord Lyon's own pages don't look too amazing, but a search on "Lord Lyon" seemed to bring up a lot of hits. Gavin Greig "Haw, you're no deid," girned Charon. "Get aff ma boat or ah'll report ye." Matthew Fitt - The Hoose O Haivers: The Twelve Trauchles O Heracles.
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Ok, educate me a little. I thought that the English coat of arms only applied to those knighted and was only transferable to the eldest son. I would have thought that Scotland would be similar. Is this assumption all wet? or have the rules changed "with a fee"? I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
In Scotland, any "virtuous and well-deserving person" can apply to Lord Lyon, King of Arms, for a coat of arms. If you can show descent from someone who already has a coat of arms, it will be based on that coat in some appropriate way. If there is a clan associated with your surname, the arms of that clan might be used. Obviously if it's a distant relationship, the reference in the arms may be similarly low-key. If there's no such relationship, you can have your own coat of arms designed. The English equivalent is the Earl Marshall of the College of Arms, who heads the Court of Chivalry. Gavin Greig "Haw, you're no deid," girned Charon. "Get aff ma boat or ah'll report ye." Matthew Fitt - The Hoose O Haivers: The Twelve Trauchles O Heracles.
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There is nothing mundane about pronouncing names correctly. So far, no one has pronounced my first name wrongly to me - although I did get asked once to confirm the pronounciation. My surname on the other hand gets misprounounced by just about anyone who is not Scottish, with a few exceptions. On one occasion a person said, but you don't pronounce the "AY" like that in English, but since my surname is not in English those rules don't apply. (Mackay is, apparently, from the Scots Gaelic and means Son of Hugh. Mac/Mc means "Son of") For the removal of doubt, my surname is correctly pronounced thusly: Mack (like the truck, but not like the Mc in McDonalds which is "Mick" [although most people prounounce them so similarly you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference]) ay (is a dipthong, in other words you start with an "ah" sound and slide it to an "ee")
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
Colin, This was an interesting point about the correct pronunciation of surnames. I remember once visiting Belfast and when I was checking into a hotel a person read my name of a reservation card... Mr. McIlroy. I promptly corrected her pronunciation, to match the way that my family has said it all our lives in Canada. She just as promptly corrected my pronunciation, and told me that the way I said the name was definitely not the right way. That took me back a bit... you don't usually expect people to correct the pronunciation of YOUR own name... but she did it without any hesitation at all. I'm a 5th generation Canadian, and have no ties or information at all to the origins of the name. It turned out that the McIlroy clan was from Ballymena, which is not too far from Belfast, where there are hundreds of McIlroys kicking around. I decided that I would visit the place... and it was really quite amazing visiting a town where every 10th person looks like they could be related to you. So many had the Neanderthal forehead, bushy eyebrows, and other features that mark them as McIlroys. It was quite a little side trip. I tried to use the "correct" version of the name for a while, but it is hard to change after having the name for decades. Plus, you really need a bit of an Irish accent to say it correctly. But now when I say my name I sometimes get self conscious that I am pronouncing it incorrectly. John
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Colin, This was an interesting point about the correct pronunciation of surnames. I remember once visiting Belfast and when I was checking into a hotel a person read my name of a reservation card... Mr. McIlroy. I promptly corrected her pronunciation, to match the way that my family has said it all our lives in Canada. She just as promptly corrected my pronunciation, and told me that the way I said the name was definitely not the right way. That took me back a bit... you don't usually expect people to correct the pronunciation of YOUR own name... but she did it without any hesitation at all. I'm a 5th generation Canadian, and have no ties or information at all to the origins of the name. It turned out that the McIlroy clan was from Ballymena, which is not too far from Belfast, where there are hundreds of McIlroys kicking around. I decided that I would visit the place... and it was really quite amazing visiting a town where every 10th person looks like they could be related to you. So many had the Neanderthal forehead, bushy eyebrows, and other features that mark them as McIlroys. It was quite a little side trip. I tried to use the "correct" version of the name for a while, but it is hard to change after having the name for decades. Plus, you really need a bit of an Irish accent to say it correctly. But now when I say my name I sometimes get self conscious that I am pronouncing it incorrectly. John
I've never come across a McIlroy before. So, I have to confess ignorance of the correct pronounciation. I've a few ideas of what is might be: Mick-Ill-Roy Mickil-Roy Mickilry [no obvious stress, just all rolled together] So, did I get one right? How do you pronounce it? and how is it supposed to be pronounced?
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
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In Scotland, any "virtuous and well-deserving person" can apply to Lord Lyon, King of Arms, for a coat of arms. If you can show descent from someone who already has a coat of arms, it will be based on that coat in some appropriate way. If there is a clan associated with your surname, the arms of that clan might be used. Obviously if it's a distant relationship, the reference in the arms may be similarly low-key. If there's no such relationship, you can have your own coat of arms designed. The English equivalent is the Earl Marshall of the College of Arms, who heads the Court of Chivalry. Gavin Greig "Haw, you're no deid," girned Charon. "Get aff ma boat or ah'll report ye." Matthew Fitt - The Hoose O Haivers: The Twelve Trauchles O Heracles.
Thanks :) I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
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I've never come across a McIlroy before. So, I have to confess ignorance of the correct pronounciation. I've a few ideas of what is might be: Mick-Ill-Roy Mickil-Roy Mickilry [no obvious stress, just all rolled together] So, did I get one right? How do you pronounce it? and how is it supposed to be pronounced?
"You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want." --Zig Ziglar The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September
Colin, We have always pronounced the name: Mack -- (rythmes with sack) ul -- (rythmes with bull) roy -- (rythmes with toy) But in Belfast the Mack changes to more of a Mick and then they kind of squish it together like your third choice. But you really do need an Irish accent to say it right. It just doesn't sound right saying it the Irish way with a Canadian accent. There are actually quite a few of us in Toronto (about 50 or 60)... but I have been in places like Arkansas and run into people who have never met a member of the clan. But in NI... there are thousands of 'em (us). JM
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Colin, We have always pronounced the name: Mack -- (rythmes with sack) ul -- (rythmes with bull) roy -- (rythmes with toy) But in Belfast the Mack changes to more of a Mick and then they kind of squish it together like your third choice. But you really do need an Irish accent to say it right. It just doesn't sound right saying it the Irish way with a Canadian accent. There are actually quite a few of us in Toronto (about 50 or 60)... but I have been in places like Arkansas and run into people who have never met a member of the clan. But in NI... there are thousands of 'em (us). JM
John McIlroy wrote: But in NI... there are thousands of 'em (us). ...must... avoid... visual... :omg: ;)
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John McIlroy wrote: But in NI... there are thousands of 'em (us). ...must... avoid... visual... :omg: ;)
Heh Tim... how goes it my friend? I am trying to decipher your cryptic, Deveaux-ian message. Can you give me any help? JM
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Heh Tim... how goes it my friend? I am trying to decipher your cryptic, Deveaux-ian message. Can you give me any help? JM
Nope! :-D