Will the US please stop Isreal!!!
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=5&u=/ap/20040523/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_17[^] One would think if any group of people know what it is like to be treated unfairly, the people of the state of Isreal are the ones. Sure there is the problem with suicide attacks_(which i only have a problem with because i know the intent of those Hamas bastards isn't noble, otherwise i consider it a means to an end. Not everyone beleives in protesting for their rights.)_, but Isreal's actions have been out of control. It seems they only listen to the US. What i don't understand is why they're opposed to having NATO move in. It is completely unacceptable to leave Isreal to decide how to resovle that mess, they're incapable of it. Using tanks against stone throwing teenagers is beyound comprehension. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=5&u=/ap/20040523/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_17[^] One would think if any group of people know what it is like to be treated unfairly, the people of the state of Isreal are the ones. Sure there is the problem with suicide attacks_(which i only have a problem with because i know the intent of those Hamas bastards isn't noble, otherwise i consider it a means to an end. Not everyone beleives in protesting for their rights.)_, but Isreal's actions have been out of control. It seems they only listen to the US. What i don't understand is why they're opposed to having NATO move in. It is completely unacceptable to leave Isreal to decide how to resovle that mess, they're incapable of it. Using tanks against stone throwing teenagers is beyound comprehension. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: What i don't understand is why they're opposed to having NATO move in. ... Using tanks against stone throwing teenagers is beyound comprehension. I really don't see how bombing will do any difference... -- Booohoo!
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mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: What i don't understand is why they're opposed to having NATO move in. ... Using tanks against stone throwing teenagers is beyound comprehension. I really don't see how bombing will do any difference... -- Booohoo!
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I really don't see how bombing will do any difference... I hope NATO isn't known just for bombings :). I mean "move in" as a third party and make sure both sides adhere to what ever agreement is decided upon. The fact is Isreal has no basis to make any demands regarding that land, ofcourse they're there now and there's no way to get reed of the state of Isreal. The claims to Isreal as a historic or biblical home land is ridiculous. By the same token, Native Americans can lay claims(love to see the religious right's reaction to that.) to the united states. Everyone could go back in history and lay claim to various places their ancestors have once been. I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves, there needs to be a solution crafted from the UN/US without any input or demand from either side. Let the allies decide on what is the most viable solution and implement it without any consensous from either side. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I really don't see how bombing will do any difference... I hope NATO isn't known just for bombings :). I mean "move in" as a third party and make sure both sides adhere to what ever agreement is decided upon. The fact is Isreal has no basis to make any demands regarding that land, ofcourse they're there now and there's no way to get reed of the state of Isreal. The claims to Isreal as a historic or biblical home land is ridiculous. By the same token, Native Americans can lay claims(love to see the religious right's reaction to that.) to the united states. Everyone could go back in history and lay claim to various places their ancestors have once been. I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves, there needs to be a solution crafted from the UN/US without any input or demand from either side. Let the allies decide on what is the most viable solution and implement it without any consensous from either side. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves You have no idea what you are talking about. Go read some history. mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: Let the allies decide on what is the most viable solution and implement it without any consensous from either side. Great idea. Attempt to impose a solution that no-one likes so they will try to undo it by (probably) violent means for the next century or so. You make the Bush Administration look sophisticated. John Carson "I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishoners for whom to vote ... and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him. - John F. Kennedy
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I really don't see how bombing will do any difference... I hope NATO isn't known just for bombings :). I mean "move in" as a third party and make sure both sides adhere to what ever agreement is decided upon. The fact is Isreal has no basis to make any demands regarding that land, ofcourse they're there now and there's no way to get reed of the state of Isreal. The claims to Isreal as a historic or biblical home land is ridiculous. By the same token, Native Americans can lay claims(love to see the religious right's reaction to that.) to the united states. Everyone could go back in history and lay claim to various places their ancestors have once been. I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves, there needs to be a solution crafted from the UN/US without any input or demand from either side. Let the allies decide on what is the most viable solution and implement it without any consensous from either side. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves Xe, xe, xe...If you've got a degree of some kind you should sue your school. ;) Tomaž
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I really don't see how bombing will do any difference... I hope NATO isn't known just for bombings :). I mean "move in" as a third party and make sure both sides adhere to what ever agreement is decided upon. The fact is Isreal has no basis to make any demands regarding that land, ofcourse they're there now and there's no way to get reed of the state of Isreal. The claims to Isreal as a historic or biblical home land is ridiculous. By the same token, Native Americans can lay claims(love to see the religious right's reaction to that.) to the united states. Everyone could go back in history and lay claim to various places their ancestors have once been. I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves, there needs to be a solution crafted from the UN/US without any input or demand from either side. Let the allies decide on what is the most viable solution and implement it without any consensous from either side. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: he fact is Isreal has no basis to make any demands regarding that land Oh but they do! Isn't God's words enough? It's the promised land for the religious, and rich for the industrious. There is no way in hell the Israelis will give anything to the Palestinians, regardless how solid their basis for not doing so is. I doubt the US will do anything either, since that would be political suicide. The jewish community, which would be pissed off by an action against Israel, is a too large voting base to be ignored. Had it not been so large, Israel would have been condemned a long time ago by hard core right wing religious nutcases. After all, not helping those of the faith who ultimately had Jesus killed, couldn't be a bad thing now, could it? mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves Israel is the sacred kingdom which will be the only place still standing after armageddon. Of course they wanted it. In the meantime, waiting for armageddon, they can reap the rewards and riches of that land. In one way I think it's great that jews have Israel. Before that they did not have a country of their own. They've always been harassed by screwed up christians and other wildly fucked up people through history. But even when taking that century after century treatment into account, I don't see how it can justify the treatment of civilian palestinians (i.e., regular people just like you and me, who just want to carry on with their lives), which is borderline on the ghettos they were put in before and during the WW2. I believe the most appropriate action, and perhaps also the least "politically smart" action, is to lead the UN/NATO/EU coallition/whatever into there and put and end to what's happening. Shut down Knesset and the Palestinian counter part, because obviously they're not working. Force the leaders of both people into a room where they will sit until a) the end of the world, or b) they've come to a solution. Someone's gotta tell these idiots to get a fucking clue. This jabbing back and forth with suicide bombers and tanks the last decades haven't really led anywhere. -- Booohoo!
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mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves Xe, xe, xe...If you've got a degree of some kind you should sue your school. ;) Tomaž
God damn! You do have some sense of humor after all. :-D -- Booohoo!
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mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves Xe, xe, xe...If you've got a degree of some kind you should sue your school. ;) Tomaž
Tomaž Štih wrote: mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves You may be taking that much too literally. If the allies didn't turn a blindeye(most likey due to guilt for probably not doing enough to prevent the holocust)to what was going on the middle-east at that time Isreal would never have been created. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=5&u=/ap/20040523/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_17[^] One would think if any group of people know what it is like to be treated unfairly, the people of the state of Isreal are the ones. Sure there is the problem with suicide attacks_(which i only have a problem with because i know the intent of those Hamas bastards isn't noble, otherwise i consider it a means to an end. Not everyone beleives in protesting for their rights.)_, but Isreal's actions have been out of control. It seems they only listen to the US. What i don't understand is why they're opposed to having NATO move in. It is completely unacceptable to leave Isreal to decide how to resovle that mess, they're incapable of it. Using tanks against stone throwing teenagers is beyound comprehension. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
NATO has offered to send in peacekeepers before. But of course, Israel wouldn't be able to control/own half of the West Bank then or keep building settlements... The tigress is here :-D
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mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: he fact is Isreal has no basis to make any demands regarding that land Oh but they do! Isn't God's words enough? It's the promised land for the religious, and rich for the industrious. There is no way in hell the Israelis will give anything to the Palestinians, regardless how solid their basis for not doing so is. I doubt the US will do anything either, since that would be political suicide. The jewish community, which would be pissed off by an action against Israel, is a too large voting base to be ignored. Had it not been so large, Israel would have been condemned a long time ago by hard core right wing religious nutcases. After all, not helping those of the faith who ultimately had Jesus killed, couldn't be a bad thing now, could it? mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves Israel is the sacred kingdom which will be the only place still standing after armageddon. Of course they wanted it. In the meantime, waiting for armageddon, they can reap the rewards and riches of that land. In one way I think it's great that jews have Israel. Before that they did not have a country of their own. They've always been harassed by screwed up christians and other wildly fucked up people through history. But even when taking that century after century treatment into account, I don't see how it can justify the treatment of civilian palestinians (i.e., regular people just like you and me, who just want to carry on with their lives), which is borderline on the ghettos they were put in before and during the WW2. I believe the most appropriate action, and perhaps also the least "politically smart" action, is to lead the UN/NATO/EU coallition/whatever into there and put and end to what's happening. Shut down Knesset and the Palestinian counter part, because obviously they're not working. Force the leaders of both people into a room where they will sit until a) the end of the world, or b) they've come to a solution. Someone's gotta tell these idiots to get a fucking clue. This jabbing back and forth with suicide bombers and tanks the last decades haven't really led anywhere. -- Booohoo!
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Had it not been so large, Israel would have been condemned a long time ago by hard core right wing religious nutcases. After all, not helping those of the faith who ultimately had Jesus killed, couldn't be a bad thing now, could it? That isn't so much the case anymore...recently jews have been strongly allied with the christian right(because they beliave they're helping god's children) here in the US. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
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mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves You have no idea what you are talking about. Go read some history. mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: Let the allies decide on what is the most viable solution and implement it without any consensous from either side. Great idea. Attempt to impose a solution that no-one likes so they will try to undo it by (probably) violent means for the next century or so. You make the Bush Administration look sophisticated. John Carson "I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishoners for whom to vote ... and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him. - John F. Kennedy
John Carson wrote: You have no idea what you are talking about. Go read some history. here is some short history on the creation of the state of isreal. http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/israel.htm[^] I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=5&u=/ap/20040523/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_17[^] One would think if any group of people know what it is like to be treated unfairly, the people of the state of Isreal are the ones. Sure there is the problem with suicide attacks_(which i only have a problem with because i know the intent of those Hamas bastards isn't noble, otherwise i consider it a means to an end. Not everyone beleives in protesting for their rights.)_, but Isreal's actions have been out of control. It seems they only listen to the US. What i don't understand is why they're opposed to having NATO move in. It is completely unacceptable to leave Isreal to decide how to resovle that mess, they're incapable of it. Using tanks against stone throwing teenagers is beyound comprehension. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
Will the Palenstinians please get rid of their corrupt leadership and stop smuggling weapons and explosives into their neighborhoods? Will Palestinians stop using women, children and even ambulances as shields and couriers for weapons? Will other Palestinians stop cheering them on? Will they stop blowing themselves and others up, including women and children and fellow Arabs? Will they stop smothering their daughters who are raped or have had sexual intercourse outside of marriage? Will they stop lynch mobs against other Palestinians merely accused of collaborating with Israel? Will the Palestinian Authority stop embezzling funds intended for humanitarian assistance? Will Europe stop appeasing the Palestinian leadership? Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: I think just as Isreal was created by the allies after WWII without any input from jews themselves You have no idea what you are talking about. Go read some history. mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: Let the allies decide on what is the most viable solution and implement it without any consensous from either side. Great idea. Attempt to impose a solution that no-one likes so they will try to undo it by (probably) violent means for the next century or so. You make the Bush Administration look sophisticated. John Carson "I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishoners for whom to vote ... and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him. - John F. Kennedy
John Carson wrote: Great idea. Attempt to impose a solution that no-one likes so they will try to undo it by (probably) violent means for the next century or so. That conclusion is quite speculative. Isreal isn't a hopeless state, as a result they're likely to accept a reasonaly imposed peace plan. Palestanians on the other hand don't have the power to resist a UN peacekeeping action. Assuming ofcourse Hamas/Alaqsus bregade..are all entire desbanded, by force if necessary. John Carson wrote: You make the Bush Administration look sophisticated. I think most americans would appreciate my effort.:) I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
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John Carson wrote: Great idea. Attempt to impose a solution that no-one likes so they will try to undo it by (probably) violent means for the next century or so. That conclusion is quite speculative. Isreal isn't a hopeless state, as a result they're likely to accept a reasonaly imposed peace plan. Palestanians on the other hand don't have the power to resist a UN peacekeeping action. Assuming ofcourse Hamas/Alaqsus bregade..are all entire desbanded, by force if necessary. John Carson wrote: You make the Bush Administration look sophisticated. I think most americans would appreciate my effort.:) I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: That conclusion is quite speculative. On the contrary. I think it's a proper observation and extrapolation of what we see today. The Palestinians are today forced to live by the command of Israel, and see where that has led them. Force both and see what happens. Force should be applied to make both parts come up with a solution (with a little help from the outside, should they need it). -- Booohoo!
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mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: That conclusion is quite speculative. On the contrary. I think it's a proper observation and extrapolation of what we see today. The Palestinians are today forced to live by the command of Israel, and see where that has led them. Force both and see what happens. Force should be applied to make both parts come up with a solution (with a little help from the outside, should they need it). -- Booohoo!
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: On the contrary. I think it's a proper observation and extrapolation of what we see today. The Palestinians are today forced to live by the command of Israel, and see where that has led them. Force both and see what happens. They point i am trying to make is that, the current state of isreal is less likely to engange in violence as a result of opposition to some reasonably imposed peace plan. Isreal is a state that has alot to lose by becoming a renegade against any such imposition, especially if the united states is involved. Again the solution has to be unbiasedly reasonable(not necessarily reasonable to any of the two parties,since they have their biases that clugup their reason.). I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=5&u=/ap/20040523/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_17[^] One would think if any group of people know what it is like to be treated unfairly, the people of the state of Isreal are the ones. Sure there is the problem with suicide attacks_(which i only have a problem with because i know the intent of those Hamas bastards isn't noble, otherwise i consider it a means to an end. Not everyone beleives in protesting for their rights.)_, but Isreal's actions have been out of control. It seems they only listen to the US. What i don't understand is why they're opposed to having NATO move in. It is completely unacceptable to leave Isreal to decide how to resovle that mess, they're incapable of it. Using tanks against stone throwing teenagers is beyound comprehension. I am sitting in my flame proof buncker, so don't even bother. by the way, perl stinks.
mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: One would think if any group of people know what it is like to be treated unfairly, the people of the state of Isreal are the ones. I think it is their history which compels them to want to control their own destiny. As much as one might disagree with the logic of placing a Jewish state in the Middle East, and as much as one might disagree with their tactics, the truth is that they probably have little choice. The notion that they could arrive at a peaceful settlement with people who are committed entirely to their destruction is rediculous. They must either fight or flee, they have no other choice. "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
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Will the Palenstinians please get rid of their corrupt leadership and stop smuggling weapons and explosives into their neighborhoods? Will Palestinians stop using women, children and even ambulances as shields and couriers for weapons? Will other Palestinians stop cheering them on? Will they stop blowing themselves and others up, including women and children and fellow Arabs? Will they stop smothering their daughters who are raped or have had sexual intercourse outside of marriage? Will they stop lynch mobs against other Palestinians merely accused of collaborating with Israel? Will the Palestinian Authority stop embezzling funds intended for humanitarian assistance? Will Europe stop appeasing the Palestinian leadership? Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
I agree with you completely. The answers to your questions are 'no' and until all answers are 'yes' the violance will continue.
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mystro_AKA_kokie wrote: One would think if any group of people know what it is like to be treated unfairly, the people of the state of Isreal are the ones. I think it is their history which compels them to want to control their own destiny. As much as one might disagree with the logic of placing a Jewish state in the Middle East, and as much as one might disagree with their tactics, the truth is that they probably have little choice. The notion that they could arrive at a peaceful settlement with people who are committed entirely to their destruction is rediculous. They must either fight or flee, they have no other choice. "In the final analysis, secularism is little more than another religion the first amendment should be protecting the American people against."
Stan Shannon wrote: The notion that they could arrive at a peaceful settlement with people who are committed entirely to their destruction is rediculous. They must either fight or flee, they have no other choice. [sarcasm] I can see that you are totally on Israel's side because they had been the victims in the past. You probably don't mind if some Palestinians camp in your backyard because they lost their homeland even if you had nothing to do with their loss their homeland. As for the Palestinians, yes, they are committed to the destruction of Israel. They have no choice, either they fight or live a life with no dignity. Too bad Israel can't kill them all, like the Americans killed the Indians. [/sarcasm]
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Stan Shannon wrote: The notion that they could arrive at a peaceful settlement with people who are committed entirely to their destruction is rediculous. They must either fight or flee, they have no other choice. [sarcasm] I can see that you are totally on Israel's side because they had been the victims in the past. You probably don't mind if some Palestinians camp in your backyard because they lost their homeland even if you had nothing to do with their loss their homeland. As for the Palestinians, yes, they are committed to the destruction of Israel. They have no choice, either they fight or live a life with no dignity. Too bad Israel can't kill them all, like the Americans killed the Indians. [/sarcasm]
Actually thats complete bullshit. For the most part I have always been sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians. I think creating a Jewish state in that region was an extrodinarily bad idea. I could care less if the Israelies are driven into the sea tommorow. However,none of that changes the reality of the situation. The Palestinians are being used as pawns by the rest of the Muslim world who could otherwise care less about their plight. Israel has no choice but to fight if it wishes to survive. The Palestinians, in fact, have many choices but they do not choose wisely.
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Will the Palenstinians please get rid of their corrupt leadership and stop smuggling weapons and explosives into their neighborhoods? Will Palestinians stop using women, children and even ambulances as shields and couriers for weapons? Will other Palestinians stop cheering them on? Will they stop blowing themselves and others up, including women and children and fellow Arabs? Will they stop smothering their daughters who are raped or have had sexual intercourse outside of marriage? Will they stop lynch mobs against other Palestinians merely accused of collaborating with Israel? Will the Palestinian Authority stop embezzling funds intended for humanitarian assistance? Will Europe stop appeasing the Palestinian leadership? Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke