Can there be a free version of Windows ?
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Can there be a free version of Windows ? why not?? i read the article "Piracy and Unconvential Wisdom" by Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu today... well here in india where i live we can get pirated copies of any software and games both new and old at rock-bottom prices...some just for less than $2/cd .... here in india most of us don't feel guilty about buying pirated software because the cost of owning software is terribly high compared to the cost of hardware! you can get an assembled pc for about Rs 15000 ( $ 333.333 when you take $ 1=Rs 45)..... so for most of us espically those from the student community it hardly makes any economic sense to legally buy software. linux does seem like a good alternative, but for most users its not easy to use it. they prefer to use windows. lets think about what a free version of windows can do------- 1. it can be provided as a stripped down basic version, most users don't even know about the existance of things like "Disk Defragmenter" for one..... what most users want is browsing, media players, basic document editors.... and windows already provides IE and MediaPlayer for free!!!! 2. it need not be a supported product...that way microsoft still retains most of its current customer base! 3. the public (especially student community, software engineers) can be invited to find bugs in programs, make suggestions, make inovative products. Microsoft can use the money they spend in fighting piracy to reward these efforts and use the suggestion,inprovements,products thus generated in their mainstream products. 4. the free os can be a testing ground for new products... 5. as young users will use this free version, the probablity that they will turn to linux is greatly reduced.... MicroSoft will thus be generating a wider customer base for the future!!! 6. by providing web services and selling programs as per user requirement(....if a user wants "Disk Defragmenter"...sell it to him as a standalone) even this free versions will generate revenue for Mr. Bill. 7. the free version can be supported by donations... those who use it will certainly like to donate some money however small the amount, for keeping this great offer alive. the money so obtained should not go into the bank acount of Mr Bill Gates :) but put into the development of this free os. MicroSoft can bring about a linux like revolution ( without the open source condition!!!) if they think about the suggestions i have mentioned above ! I prefer to use Windows over linux .... but
No doubt about it they would be put up for antitrust violations in the US and Europe.
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Can there be a free version of Windows ? why not?? i read the article "Piracy and Unconvential Wisdom" by Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu today... well here in india where i live we can get pirated copies of any software and games both new and old at rock-bottom prices...some just for less than $2/cd .... here in india most of us don't feel guilty about buying pirated software because the cost of owning software is terribly high compared to the cost of hardware! you can get an assembled pc for about Rs 15000 ( $ 333.333 when you take $ 1=Rs 45)..... so for most of us espically those from the student community it hardly makes any economic sense to legally buy software. linux does seem like a good alternative, but for most users its not easy to use it. they prefer to use windows. lets think about what a free version of windows can do------- 1. it can be provided as a stripped down basic version, most users don't even know about the existance of things like "Disk Defragmenter" for one..... what most users want is browsing, media players, basic document editors.... and windows already provides IE and MediaPlayer for free!!!! 2. it need not be a supported product...that way microsoft still retains most of its current customer base! 3. the public (especially student community, software engineers) can be invited to find bugs in programs, make suggestions, make inovative products. Microsoft can use the money they spend in fighting piracy to reward these efforts and use the suggestion,inprovements,products thus generated in their mainstream products. 4. the free os can be a testing ground for new products... 5. as young users will use this free version, the probablity that they will turn to linux is greatly reduced.... MicroSoft will thus be generating a wider customer base for the future!!! 6. by providing web services and selling programs as per user requirement(....if a user wants "Disk Defragmenter"...sell it to him as a standalone) even this free versions will generate revenue for Mr. Bill. 7. the free version can be supported by donations... those who use it will certainly like to donate some money however small the amount, for keeping this great offer alive. the money so obtained should not go into the bank acount of Mr Bill Gates :) but put into the development of this free os. MicroSoft can bring about a linux like revolution ( without the open source condition!!!) if they think about the suggestions i have mentioned above ! I prefer to use Windows over linux .... but
I think the only real question is .. Why would a company give away something that it developed for free ? shoonya wrote: here in india most of us don't feel guilty about buying pirated software because the cost of owning software is terribly high compared to the cost of hardware! I'm really sad to hear that. "Most" ?! I really don't know how you can say that. I've never used pirated software. Sure some people might (but that's there in every country..maybe the laws a little less enforced in India)..but most people is not a fair generalization. And neither is saying that that people who do so in India don't feel guilty about it. I'm not flaming you mate...I just think its unfortunate that you would make a sweeping statement like that when there are already so many misconceptions about India "I believe I referred to her personality as a potential science exhibit." - Elaine, about Ellen, in "The Dog"
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I live in Brazil, and we have the same problems of India. While giving away Windows would be a very popular measure, I believe that MS shouldn't do it: shoonya wrote: that way microsoft still retains most of its current customer base! Which customers? On my dictionary, a customer is someone who pays for a product. shoonya wrote: i read the article "Piracy and Unconvential Wisdom" by Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu today... From time to time, this "cute and friendly" vision of piracy comes back. The main reason is that Windows is at the same time the most pirated software and the most successful software. So, instead people thinking “hey, Windows is cool software and very successful, so people pirate it (no one pirates inutile software).” Some “unconventional” people think: “hey, Windows is very successful because people pirate it” shoonya wrote: MicroSoft will thus be generating a wider customer base for the future!!! Customers which will learn that software doesn't cost a thing. shoonya wrote: the public (especially student community, software engineers) can be invited to find bugs in programs, make suggestions, make inovative products. Are you assuming that people who pay for the software don't do the same thing? shoonya wrote: 6. by providing web services and selling programs as per user requirement(....if a user wants "Disk Defragmenter"...sell it to him as a standalone) even this free versions will generate revenue for Mr. Bill. What makes you think someone will pay for defrag if they don't pay for the whole OS? They'll simply pirate it. shoonya wrote: 7. the free version can be supported by donations... those who use it will certainly like to donate some money however small the amount, for keeping this great offer alive. the money so obtained should not go into the bank acount of Mr Bill Gates but put into the development of this free os. If I am going to donate money, I am going to donate to someone who is starving or needs it. MS doesn't need my donation, it needs the money from their revenues they do to me. shoonya wrote: 1. it can be provided as a stripped down basic version, most users don't even know about the existance of things like "Disk Defragmenter" for one..... what most users want is browsing, media players, basic document editors.... and windows already provi
Nice good solid arguements Daniel. Saved me arguing all of that. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
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**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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Free Windows would be great!:-D But if it was free, there would be no Windows. It costs money - lots of money - to develop an operating system. Without the reward of payment for their intellectual efforts, the developers would never have bothered to create it. Freeware has its place in the economy, as a playground for developers with an excess of free time and curiosity, and a joy in what they do. But Windows as freeware is inconceivable, as it is too complex to be created by a loose organization of volunteers. KDE is what you get when developers with too much free time decide to make a product, and even that would never have arisen if Windows had not preceded it to show the way. shoonya wrote: 2. it need not be a supported product...that way microsoft still retains most of its current customer base! It isn't now. Try getting support from Microsoft for an operating system product; there's no such thing. But that hasn't stopped them from achieving an 80%+ market share. shoonya wrote: for most of us espically those from the student community it hardly makes any economic sense to legally buy software Do they steal cars, too? There's no difference, you know. People who steal often make their own value judgement - it isn't "worth" that much, so it's okay for me to just take it. Why folks place little value on products of the mind relative to products of brute labor escapes me, but it's common. I run into the attitude regularly when I fix computers. I sit down, spend 45 minutes analyzing what incredibly stupid thing the user has done, then tap the keyboard for a few minutes to repair the problem, and they bitch when I charge them $60. Yet these same people never whine when they take their cars in for service and are charged $75 an hour. Their reasoning seems to be that the mechanic is "doing" something - applying force with a hand tool, getting sweaty and greasy while applying his miniscule knowledge to resolve the problem. For some reason this equates to value, while my mental efforts - which the mechanic is in no way able to duplicate - are not valued. Thinking, after all, is not "work" according to those who rarely do it. The creative process is as much work as any physical process, and the developers earn the fruits of their labor. The cost of software is high, relative to the cost of hardware, primarily because all the intellectual problems of making a computer have been solved, and most of the work can be done by a machin
Roger Wright wrote: Why folks place little value on products of the mind relative to products of brute labor escapes me, but it's common. I run into the attitude regularly when I fix computers. I sit down, spend 45 minutes analyzing what incredibly stupid thing the user has done, then tap the keyboard for a few minutes to repair the problem, and they bitch when I charge them $60. Yet these same people never whine when they take their cars in for service and are charged $75 an hour. Their reasoning seems to be that the mechanic is "doing" something - applying force with a hand tool, getting sweaty and greasy while applying his miniscule knowledge to resolve the problem. For some reason this equates to value, while my mental efforts - which the mechanic is in no way able to duplicate - are not valued. Thinking, after all, is not "work" according to those who rarely do it. Heres a trick for when you are working on someones computer. First thing you do is open up the case and power on the machine (even if its obviously not a hardware problem). Do some technically looking nonsense and then look into the case and poke around at cables or just look like your looking for a hardware problem. Restart the computer several times and just act like your actually doing something with the hardware. Then fix it and tell them that there lucky they had you look at it as soon as you did, tell them that if they had left it any longer they could risk serious unrepairable damage and tell them they could expect to have paid [price + $10-15] at [Name brand store] but that you'll give them a good deal on it because [insert compliment here]. It may be gray in terms of ethics, but they probably won't complain so much. Matt Newman
All rise for the honorable Judge Stone Cold Steve Austin - From Dilbert Episode 30
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I think the only real question is .. Why would a company give away something that it developed for free ? shoonya wrote: here in india most of us don't feel guilty about buying pirated software because the cost of owning software is terribly high compared to the cost of hardware! I'm really sad to hear that. "Most" ?! I really don't know how you can say that. I've never used pirated software. Sure some people might (but that's there in every country..maybe the laws a little less enforced in India)..but most people is not a fair generalization. And neither is saying that that people who do so in India don't feel guilty about it. I'm not flaming you mate...I just think its unfortunate that you would make a sweeping statement like that when there are already so many misconceptions about India "I believe I referred to her personality as a potential science exhibit." - Elaine, about Ellen, in "The Dog"
Ramanan Sivan wrote: but most people is not a fair generalization. Good to hear. I've heard this justified piracy from other Indians. I understand the dilemma, but agree that theft as a means to get ahead is simply not valid reasoning. Are there student loans or other means of obtaining money on credit for students, so they can purchase what they need, and pay back after graduation? Is it difficult/easy to get? BW The Biggest Loser
"People look so snooty, take pills make them moody
Automatic bazootie, zero to tutti frutti"
-Hollywood Freaks -
Ramanan Sivan wrote: but most people is not a fair generalization. Good to hear. I've heard this justified piracy from other Indians. I understand the dilemma, but agree that theft as a means to get ahead is simply not valid reasoning. Are there student loans or other means of obtaining money on credit for students, so they can purchase what they need, and pay back after graduation? Is it difficult/easy to get? BW The Biggest Loser
"People look so snooty, take pills make them moody
Automatic bazootie, zero to tutti frutti"
-Hollywood FreaksMS Windows is priced lower in India than here in the US especially when it comes bundled with a hardware manufacturer (equivalent of Dell). There are student editions that are priced less .. and various other schemes. Really there is no excuse for piracy no matter where you are esp since MS seems willing to stretch a point to work with educational institutions. "I believe I referred to her personality as a potential science exhibit." - Elaine, about Ellen, in "The Dog"
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Free Windows would be great!:-D But if it was free, there would be no Windows. It costs money - lots of money - to develop an operating system. Without the reward of payment for their intellectual efforts, the developers would never have bothered to create it. Freeware has its place in the economy, as a playground for developers with an excess of free time and curiosity, and a joy in what they do. But Windows as freeware is inconceivable, as it is too complex to be created by a loose organization of volunteers. KDE is what you get when developers with too much free time decide to make a product, and even that would never have arisen if Windows had not preceded it to show the way. shoonya wrote: 2. it need not be a supported product...that way microsoft still retains most of its current customer base! It isn't now. Try getting support from Microsoft for an operating system product; there's no such thing. But that hasn't stopped them from achieving an 80%+ market share. shoonya wrote: for most of us espically those from the student community it hardly makes any economic sense to legally buy software Do they steal cars, too? There's no difference, you know. People who steal often make their own value judgement - it isn't "worth" that much, so it's okay for me to just take it. Why folks place little value on products of the mind relative to products of brute labor escapes me, but it's common. I run into the attitude regularly when I fix computers. I sit down, spend 45 minutes analyzing what incredibly stupid thing the user has done, then tap the keyboard for a few minutes to repair the problem, and they bitch when I charge them $60. Yet these same people never whine when they take their cars in for service and are charged $75 an hour. Their reasoning seems to be that the mechanic is "doing" something - applying force with a hand tool, getting sweaty and greasy while applying his miniscule knowledge to resolve the problem. For some reason this equates to value, while my mental efforts - which the mechanic is in no way able to duplicate - are not valued. Thinking, after all, is not "work" according to those who rarely do it. The creative process is as much work as any physical process, and the developers earn the fruits of their labor. The cost of software is high, relative to the cost of hardware, primarily because all the intellectual problems of making a computer have been solved, and most of the work can be done by a machin
Roger Wright wrote: It isn't now. Try getting support from Microsoft for an operating system product; there's no such thing. But that hasn't stopped them from achieving an 80%+ market share. 80% of their 80% of the market is due to factors other than Microsfot's greatness too. The fact they were lucky enough to be the supplier of the OS for IBM's first PC. The fact IBM didn't think the PC market would last, meant they didn't care to create or purchase the OS outright. Then pirates stole the OS for years (and still do) for use on clone machines. This gave Microsoft a huge base of knowledgeable users for when they made it in to the business world. Microsoft cannot and will not advocate the piracy of their software, but without this piracy a they would not be in the position they are in. They must know this and secretly like it. The stealing car analogy doesn't hold, as the manufacturer of the car doesn't make his money back 10 fold like Microsfot has done through piracy. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Roger Wright wrote: It isn't now. Try getting support from Microsoft for an operating system product; there's no such thing. But that hasn't stopped them from achieving an 80%+ market share. 80% of their 80% of the market is due to factors other than Microsfot's greatness too. The fact they were lucky enough to be the supplier of the OS for IBM's first PC. The fact IBM didn't think the PC market would last, meant they didn't care to create or purchase the OS outright. Then pirates stole the OS for years (and still do) for use on clone machines. This gave Microsoft a huge base of knowledgeable users for when they made it in to the business world. Microsoft cannot and will not advocate the piracy of their software, but without this piracy a they would not be in the position they are in. They must know this and secretly like it. The stealing car analogy doesn't hold, as the manufacturer of the car doesn't make his money back 10 fold like Microsfot has done through piracy. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
Good points, Michael. Even DOS was essentially stolen; Bill didn't write it, and he paid the guy who did a tiny sum. But I have to credit him, and his company, for having the marketing skills and vision to build Windows (aka AppleOS) into the consumer product it is today. The car theft analogy holds perfectly - piracy is theft of the products of another person's efforts, be they labor or thought. The fact that Microsoft owes much of its success to the successful theft of the ideas of others doesn't change the fact that they own their product and are entitled to charge whatever they wish for the right to use it. Those who choose to use their products without paying the price are thieves. If they can't afford the lawyers to get them off without penalty, that's their problem. There are plenty of alternative free products out there. Some people think of it as a six-pack; I consider it more of a support group.
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Ramanan Sivan wrote: but most people is not a fair generalization. Good to hear. I've heard this justified piracy from other Indians. I understand the dilemma, but agree that theft as a means to get ahead is simply not valid reasoning. Are there student loans or other means of obtaining money on credit for students, so they can purchase what they need, and pay back after graduation? Is it difficult/easy to get? BW The Biggest Loser
"People look so snooty, take pills make them moody
Automatic bazootie, zero to tutti frutti"
-Hollywood FreaksExactly. It strikes me that the sort of pricing initiatives Microsoft are experimenting with in Thailand may also help in countries like India. Bring the price down enough and many people will buy - the question is whether the potential sales volume is large enough for the price reduction to make commercial sense for the company. Anna :rose: Homepage | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work. Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Visual C++ Add-In
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Can there be a free version of Windows ? why not?? i read the article "Piracy and Unconvential Wisdom" by Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu today... well here in india where i live we can get pirated copies of any software and games both new and old at rock-bottom prices...some just for less than $2/cd .... here in india most of us don't feel guilty about buying pirated software because the cost of owning software is terribly high compared to the cost of hardware! you can get an assembled pc for about Rs 15000 ( $ 333.333 when you take $ 1=Rs 45)..... so for most of us espically those from the student community it hardly makes any economic sense to legally buy software. linux does seem like a good alternative, but for most users its not easy to use it. they prefer to use windows. lets think about what a free version of windows can do------- 1. it can be provided as a stripped down basic version, most users don't even know about the existance of things like "Disk Defragmenter" for one..... what most users want is browsing, media players, basic document editors.... and windows already provides IE and MediaPlayer for free!!!! 2. it need not be a supported product...that way microsoft still retains most of its current customer base! 3. the public (especially student community, software engineers) can be invited to find bugs in programs, make suggestions, make inovative products. Microsoft can use the money they spend in fighting piracy to reward these efforts and use the suggestion,inprovements,products thus generated in their mainstream products. 4. the free os can be a testing ground for new products... 5. as young users will use this free version, the probablity that they will turn to linux is greatly reduced.... MicroSoft will thus be generating a wider customer base for the future!!! 6. by providing web services and selling programs as per user requirement(....if a user wants "Disk Defragmenter"...sell it to him as a standalone) even this free versions will generate revenue for Mr. Bill. 7. the free version can be supported by donations... those who use it will certainly like to donate some money however small the amount, for keeping this great offer alive. the money so obtained should not go into the bank acount of Mr Bill Gates :) but put into the development of this free os. MicroSoft can bring about a linux like revolution ( without the open source condition!!!) if they think about the suggestions i have mentioned above ! I prefer to use Windows over linux .... but
here in india most of us don't feel guilty about buying pirated software because the cost of owning software is terribly high compared to the cost of hardware! The cost of owning a Mercedes Benz SL600 Roadster[^] is terribly high compared to the cost of gasoline. That doesn't justify stealing one. Before you software hippies start flaming me for comparing a physical entity to a collection of bits that can be copied indefinitely, I'm aware of that argument so save your fingers for posting on /. Jeff Martin Triple20 Software
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I think the only real question is .. Why would a company give away something that it developed for free ? shoonya wrote: here in india most of us don't feel guilty about buying pirated software because the cost of owning software is terribly high compared to the cost of hardware! I'm really sad to hear that. "Most" ?! I really don't know how you can say that. I've never used pirated software. Sure some people might (but that's there in every country..maybe the laws a little less enforced in India)..but most people is not a fair generalization. And neither is saying that that people who do so in India don't feel guilty about it. I'm not flaming you mate...I just think its unfortunate that you would make a sweeping statement like that when there are already so many misconceptions about India "I believe I referred to her personality as a potential science exhibit." - Elaine, about Ellen, in "The Dog"
sure mr. ramanan sivan...."most" wasn't the correct term to use considering the very low computer:person ratio that we have in india....i bet more that 50% of our population never got a chance to use a computer ever in their lifetime.....:laugh: and i wonder if you haven't noticed the facts fact#1 that most of the thousands of cafes that have come up during the last few years use and sell pirated softwares. those who do use real stuff , stick to win98 or win2000. fact#2 most of the pcs sold in india are assembled ones...i wonder how many people who buy assembled pcs buy genuine software :) ....they are buying assembled pcs to cut down costs.... fact#3 i noticed some microsoft ads recently .... they are now selling windows on assembled pcs through something called "microsoft partners" .... ( can't tell you where and when i saw those ads, will have to dig through the old newspapers !!) .... this is proof enough that MS knows that piracy is wide-spread and is trying to get some share of the assembled pc market ! wonder if you have been residing in india lately :doh: anyway nice to see somebody stand up for my country:);)
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sure mr. ramanan sivan...."most" wasn't the correct term to use considering the very low computer:person ratio that we have in india....i bet more that 50% of our population never got a chance to use a computer ever in their lifetime.....:laugh: and i wonder if you haven't noticed the facts fact#1 that most of the thousands of cafes that have come up during the last few years use and sell pirated softwares. those who do use real stuff , stick to win98 or win2000. fact#2 most of the pcs sold in india are assembled ones...i wonder how many people who buy assembled pcs buy genuine software :) ....they are buying assembled pcs to cut down costs.... fact#3 i noticed some microsoft ads recently .... they are now selling windows on assembled pcs through something called "microsoft partners" .... ( can't tell you where and when i saw those ads, will have to dig through the old newspapers !!) .... this is proof enough that MS knows that piracy is wide-spread and is trying to get some share of the assembled pc market ! wonder if you have been residing in india lately :doh: anyway nice to see somebody stand up for my country:);)
shoonya wrote: fact#2 most of the pcs sold in india are assembled ones Not quite. Consider the company market. And also Wipro and other huge manufacturers. I think they control most of the market share. shoonya wrote: anyway nice to see somebody stand up for my country Mine too. I've only been away a few years. shoonya wrote: fact#1 that most of the thousands of cafes Probably. There weren't that many when I left so I'll take your word for it. But really there's no excuse for condoning this practice. I mean its one thing for a home user to pirate something, its another to run a business on pirated stuff. Sort of like selling pirates movie videos. Its true that MS didn't care about piracy earlier since they probably wanted more people to start using windows. But I think its time for a clamp down. "I believe I referred to her personality as a potential science exhibit." - Elaine, about Ellen, in "The Dog"