How much is your product really worth ?
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Sam C wrote: .I bet the $69 product had some great web page or 4 color slick paper brochure. The only thing the creator of the $9 product can do is just educate the consumer, show them why his/her product is better. You are right the presentation and packaging are what make a product ! Not what it actually does, Some folk actually go nuts over a cool GUI and web page and are prepared to pay for it! What I need to add to my VMTU is flashing Icons and a neat bar-graph etc. Then I could really charge for it! And users would be happy. You are probably like me Sam and are worried about the download size or footprint your Application takes up. Probably folk would feel more satisfied with a large download and lots of resources etc used. And here I am almost throwing a party when I cut 2k from a size ! Forgive my sarcasim Sam ! :-) But life is funny sometimes! :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Here is how much I'm worried about download size and footprint of my application, and the reason I want beta testers because I can't afford any of the Numega tools ;-) Since my applications is written using MFC 4.2 I have the run time DLL issue unless I straight compile it statically. Here is how bad I want to lower the K size of my distro. I was thinking of writing an activeX control and placing it on my web page and have it look on the user system for any DLL, OCX, etc... that my program needs, based on that information it would direct the user to the smallest distro available for their system. I know it sounds lame, but I harken back to the days when word processors and spread sheats fitted on one 5 1/4" disk ;-) Sam C ---- Allsys Technologies http://www.allsystech.com "Making software simpler..."
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Enterprise apps are certainly judged on their price . I have been in meetings were software has been rejected as too cheap . The best I heard was :- "SAP contractors are about a £1000 a day , and we will need 20 or so of those for a few months so it must be good" (It may be , but not for that reason)
I too feel too much weight on a product purchase relies on the price of the item. I am a "thrifty" buyer when I purchase something I will research both items and price only becomes an issue after I have determined whether both of these products are actually the same, if they are my pocket book leans towards the cheaper version ;-) But that is something we should start doing and that is drive up consumer awareness. Sam C ---- Allsys Technologies http://www.allsystech.com "Making software simpler..."
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When I first started out in computing I used to try just about any shareware I could get my hands on. I soon got tired of being bombarded by advertising or requests to register every time I used an application. These days I tend to use freeware or full commercial products. If I have a need for a particular application then I'm prepared to pay a certain amount for it and I'll go looking around to see what's available. If I can find it freeware then that's great, but it has to do the job well. I'd rather pay for a stable, fully-functional product than have a free product that didn't do the fuill job. Sam C wrote: Also with the $9 and $69 product comparison, I believe what also helps consumer make purchasing decisions is presentation...I bet the $69 product had some great web page or 4 color slick paper brochure. I have to admit that when it comes to product selection presentation is very important to me. Basically I follow the thought, "if they have taken care with the packaging/presentation, they have probably taken some care of the product". So what about shareware? Well, I guess if you treat it like "try-before-you-buy" then it's quite a good scheme, though I find the trial periods are never long enough. How many people can fully evaluate a product in 14 days around a full worklife? And what about documentation? It's not likely to be printed and is it always complete? Just a few thoughts. I hope it helps :) Derek Lakin. Salamander Software Ltd.
FREEWARE this poses an interesting dilemna and one that made me hesitate so many times on writing a software application for the masses. Is why create something when someone also creates a freeware product that is just as good if not better than commercial applications. Take for example GIMP great product freeware. But then again if freeware was so great why are companies like Adobe or Jasc still prospering? I believe the consumer is also making a purchase based on security and peace of mind. Do I go with a freeware application which has no direct lines of support or a commercial product and depending on how much money I invest they would have a dedicated support department set up for just me. Sam C ---- Allsys Technologies http://www.allsystech.com "Making software simpler..."
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: One reason I love Netherlands is that most of my registrants have been from netherlands I bet you'd love Cannal stret in Amsterdam Nish, And I bet Amsterdam would love you if you, behaved like you did in Madras recently ! :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Nowhere in the world are their thieves and robbers as there are in Madras, posing as auto-rickshaw drivers and cheating innocent Trivandrum-based-programmers of their valuable money :-) Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org Nish is a BIG fan of Goran Ivanisevic
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For Frank, Sam, myself and others this is an important issue, with our shareware etc. If we charge too much users will find us too expensive. If we charge too little users will think we are peddling junk! I have heard an author claim in another forum, that when his product changed from freeware to shareware downloads increased dramatically for a time period. So the age old rules of supply and demand, do not hold true at all, and percieved value is entertained as a dynamic of market forces. I bet you also have seen a 9.95$ product compete against a 69.95$ product, for example and the 69.95$ product wins the sale because of it's percieved value. This I guess does not only hold true for the software market but all markets must now be subject to this, but at least for me it is more observable in the software market. So MS is probably fiscally correct in not entering the cut-price OS and software markets, and continue to charge extraordinary value for it's products. The more MS charges for XP the better users will believe the value of upgrading is. Any comments ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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For Frank, Sam, myself and others this is an important issue, with our shareware etc. If we charge too much users will find us too expensive. If we charge too little users will think we are peddling junk! I have heard an author claim in another forum, that when his product changed from freeware to shareware downloads increased dramatically for a time period. So the age old rules of supply and demand, do not hold true at all, and percieved value is entertained as a dynamic of market forces. I bet you also have seen a 9.95$ product compete against a 69.95$ product, for example and the 69.95$ product wins the sale because of it's percieved value. This I guess does not only hold true for the software market but all markets must now be subject to this, but at least for me it is more observable in the software market. So MS is probably fiscally correct in not entering the cut-price OS and software markets, and continue to charge extraordinary value for it's products. The more MS charges for XP the better users will believe the value of upgrading is. Any comments ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Here are some of the things I look at whenever I'm evaluating some software to use? a) Does it solve the need I have? b) Is it reasonably well designed, and hence easy to use? c) Was my first impression good - no, next. d) Is quality, comprehensive documentation included? e) Do they has a Web site that looks reasonable professional? f) Do they respond promptly to technical support? I always send an email to test this, even if I don't realy have something I need to know. g) What is their maintenance and upgrade policy? 30 days then start paying, next... h) Is it robust and reliable? i) Is the company serious about the product? ie, Do I get the feeling they and the product will be around in one year, two years... j) Is it a cost effective? Of course "cost effective" is difficult. If it is something I'll be using most every day, or plays some pivotal role in my business I'll be willing to spend more, whereas a utility I use rarely will need to be fairly cheap. If a product is free or low cost, but doesn't meet the criteria above it won't be of interest to me. In my experience many developers don't have a clue that a software product entails more than just writing code, and a page or two of instructions. Harsh maybe, but true. Hope that's of some help. Neville Franks, Author of ED for Windows. Version 4.01 just released, with a C++ Class View that actually works. www.getsoft.com
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For Frank, Sam, myself and others this is an important issue, with our shareware etc. If we charge too much users will find us too expensive. If we charge too little users will think we are peddling junk! I have heard an author claim in another forum, that when his product changed from freeware to shareware downloads increased dramatically for a time period. So the age old rules of supply and demand, do not hold true at all, and percieved value is entertained as a dynamic of market forces. I bet you also have seen a 9.95$ product compete against a 69.95$ product, for example and the 69.95$ product wins the sale because of it's percieved value. This I guess does not only hold true for the software market but all markets must now be subject to this, but at least for me it is more observable in the software market. So MS is probably fiscally correct in not entering the cut-price OS and software markets, and continue to charge extraordinary value for it's products. The more MS charges for XP the better users will believe the value of upgrading is. Any comments ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
At my company the relationship has been clear - the higher the price, the more we have sold - simple as that. We almost fit the shareware model and we sell to schools who are legendary for being price sensitive. Nevertheless, the above rule has held true over twelve years. Paul Hooper If you spend your whole life looking over your shoulder, they will get you from the front instead.
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For Frank, Sam, myself and others this is an important issue, with our shareware etc. If we charge too much users will find us too expensive. If we charge too little users will think we are peddling junk! I have heard an author claim in another forum, that when his product changed from freeware to shareware downloads increased dramatically for a time period. So the age old rules of supply and demand, do not hold true at all, and percieved value is entertained as a dynamic of market forces. I bet you also have seen a 9.95$ product compete against a 69.95$ product, for example and the 69.95$ product wins the sale because of it's percieved value. This I guess does not only hold true for the software market but all markets must now be subject to this, but at least for me it is more observable in the software market. So MS is probably fiscally correct in not entering the cut-price OS and software markets, and continue to charge extraordinary value for it's products. The more MS charges for XP the better users will believe the value of upgrading is. Any comments ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Yes the perception of PRICE = QUALITY is certainly true (and in many cases is correct, especially for material items, which is why many people take that for granted). However in the area of software, pricing seems to contain more of a chaos factor than logic. As a person who has been in the retail software market for over a decade I can say this. 1. I have seen product price cuts made in an attempt to increase total revenue ... and product volume actually decreased. 2. I have seen product price increases made in an attempt to maximize profit on low volume products ... and the volume increases along with higher than expected profits. Unfortunately, I have yet to see a good increase in sales by lowering price. Sure you many get slightly more volume, but total revenue will be lower. The problem is if you drop your price by 50%, you will generally get only a 25% increase in volume :(
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For Frank, Sam, myself and others this is an important issue, with our shareware etc. If we charge too much users will find us too expensive. If we charge too little users will think we are peddling junk! I have heard an author claim in another forum, that when his product changed from freeware to shareware downloads increased dramatically for a time period. So the age old rules of supply and demand, do not hold true at all, and percieved value is entertained as a dynamic of market forces. I bet you also have seen a 9.95$ product compete against a 69.95$ product, for example and the 69.95$ product wins the sale because of it's percieved value. This I guess does not only hold true for the software market but all markets must now be subject to this, but at least for me it is more observable in the software market. So MS is probably fiscally correct in not entering the cut-price OS and software markets, and continue to charge extraordinary value for it's products. The more MS charges for XP the better users will believe the value of upgrading is. Any comments ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
My phylosophy (spelling?) has been simple. Charge less, and more people will pay for the product. Why charge $150 for a product and get one registration when you can charge $15 and get 25 or more people to register. Colin Davies wrote: I bet you also have seen a 9.95$ product compete against a 69.95$ product, for example and the 69.95$ product wins the sale because of it's percieved value. Yup...and one of the apps that comes to mind is Multimedia Builder from Mediachance.com. His products are cheaply priced...yet they compete with major league companies like Macromedia. Truth is, no matter how much YOU think your work (app) is worth...it isnt worth crap unless someone out there finds it usefull and buys it. :) Frank
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At my company the relationship has been clear - the higher the price, the more we have sold - simple as that. We almost fit the shareware model and we sell to schools who are legendary for being price sensitive. Nevertheless, the above rule has held true over twelve years. Paul Hooper If you spend your whole life looking over your shoulder, they will get you from the front instead.
Paul Hooper wrote: At my company the relationship has been clear - the higher the price, the more we have sold - simple as that. Yes but going by the nature of the other posters to my statements, us coder types do not appreciate that point of view "yet". Thanks for that reply to backup my sentiments of the marketplace being illogical! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Here is how much I'm worried about download size and footprint of my application, and the reason I want beta testers because I can't afford any of the Numega tools ;-) Since my applications is written using MFC 4.2 I have the run time DLL issue unless I straight compile it statically. Here is how bad I want to lower the K size of my distro. I was thinking of writing an activeX control and placing it on my web page and have it look on the user system for any DLL, OCX, etc... that my program needs, based on that information it would direct the user to the smallest distro available for their system. I know it sounds lame, but I harken back to the days when word processors and spread sheats fitted on one 5 1/4" disk ;-) Sam C ---- Allsys Technologies http://www.allsystech.com "Making software simpler..."
Sam C wrote: I know it sounds lame, but I harken back to the days when word processors and spread sheats fitted on one 5 1/4" disk Yeah it sounds like you are going to go to a lot of work, to try to save your clients a few secs of downloads etc. although it would be of use to them. I like one build fro all configs, then if a "bug" ever occurs you can blame MS for the different bugs and building mutilple versions of wingows etc. :-) Sam I harkes nack to the days when a word processor fitted on a small bundle or box of punch cards. Notepad is still my favorite editor! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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When I first started out in computing I used to try just about any shareware I could get my hands on. I soon got tired of being bombarded by advertising or requests to register every time I used an application. These days I tend to use freeware or full commercial products. If I have a need for a particular application then I'm prepared to pay a certain amount for it and I'll go looking around to see what's available. If I can find it freeware then that's great, but it has to do the job well. I'd rather pay for a stable, fully-functional product than have a free product that didn't do the fuill job. Sam C wrote: Also with the $9 and $69 product comparison, I believe what also helps consumer make purchasing decisions is presentation...I bet the $69 product had some great web page or 4 color slick paper brochure. I have to admit that when it comes to product selection presentation is very important to me. Basically I follow the thought, "if they have taken care with the packaging/presentation, they have probably taken some care of the product". So what about shareware? Well, I guess if you treat it like "try-before-you-buy" then it's quite a good scheme, though I find the trial periods are never long enough. How many people can fully evaluate a product in 14 days around a full worklife? And what about documentation? It's not likely to be printed and is it always complete? Just a few thoughts. I hope it helps :) Derek Lakin. Salamander Software Ltd.
Derek Lakin wrote: How many people can fully evaluate a product in 14 days around a full worklife? And what about documentation? It's not likely to be printed and is it always complete? What time period would you suggest, I'm looking at 60 days for my application now, because I want folk to get use to it being on there system adn will miss it not being available etc. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Paul Hooper wrote: At my company the relationship has been clear - the higher the price, the more we have sold - simple as that. Yes but going by the nature of the other posters to my statements, us coder types do not appreciate that point of view "yet". Thanks for that reply to backup my sentiments of the marketplace being illogical! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Colin Davies wrote: Thanks for that reply to backup my sentiments of the marketplace being illogical! I am not sure that it is illogical. Many of our customers have been bitten by freeware or reallycheapware. Often it just creates work for them. By paying us "real" money they are building an obligation on our part to provide service. It also depends on who you are selling to. Our customers are relatively computer illiterate. They value service and the friendly voice on the end of the phone. Many developers fall into the trap of assuming that they are selling to themselves - with all their concommitant knowledge. Personally I think that there is much more money to be made providing a really useful product for people who don't know much at all and charging a fair price for it. I think that that has been a large part of Microsoft's success. I think part of the reason for my company's success is that basically NONE of our customers are sitting there thinking "I could do a better job of this" Paul Hooper If you spend your whole life looking over your shoulder, they will get you from the front instead.
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Nowhere in the world are their thieves and robbers as there are in Madras, posing as auto-rickshaw drivers and cheating innocent Trivandrum-based-programmers of their valuable money :-) Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org Nish is a BIG fan of Goran Ivanisevic
>>Nowhere in the world are their thieves and robbers as >>there are in Madras Drop me a mail before you start the next time.. i will make sure you wont have to go thru the rough patch with richshaw people.... I was at kerala (kollam) sometime back and realised how the rickshaw fares differ when compared with chennai cheers Kannan
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Derek Lakin wrote: How many people can fully evaluate a product in 14 days around a full worklife? And what about documentation? It's not likely to be printed and is it always complete? What time period would you suggest, I'm looking at 60 days for my application now, because I want folk to get use to it being on there system adn will miss it not being available etc. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
60 days sounds like a reasonable period to me. What's the application? Derek Lakin. I wish I was what I thought I was when I wished I was what I am. Salamander Software Ltd.
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For Frank, Sam, myself and others this is an important issue, with our shareware etc. If we charge too much users will find us too expensive. If we charge too little users will think we are peddling junk! I have heard an author claim in another forum, that when his product changed from freeware to shareware downloads increased dramatically for a time period. So the age old rules of supply and demand, do not hold true at all, and percieved value is entertained as a dynamic of market forces. I bet you also have seen a 9.95$ product compete against a 69.95$ product, for example and the 69.95$ product wins the sale because of it's percieved value. This I guess does not only hold true for the software market but all markets must now be subject to this, but at least for me it is more observable in the software market. So MS is probably fiscally correct in not entering the cut-price OS and software markets, and continue to charge extraordinary value for it's products. The more MS charges for XP the better users will believe the value of upgrading is. Any comments ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
I think you need to target your product to a specific audience and price accordingly. For example, if you target teens you need to keep in mind that they (typically) don't have a lot of money for whatever reason. Although your product or service may be of interest to teens, pricing it out of their reach will deter them from continuing to consider your product because they cannot afford it. Part of targeting your application involves the application's features. For example, applications targeted at home users usually sport an interface that puts 80% of the application's functionality within a few clicks. Applications that target advanced users may not even have an interface - since advanced users are more interested in a product's depth of functionality and are willing to spend time learning how to use the application to their best advantage. Home users are typically not as patient. VMTU has great potential for a lot of people since dialup connections in places other than North America are usually very slow (line noise, infrastructure problems, etc). The problem is that the range of potential users is broad since everyone could benefit from using it. I think you should appeal to the middle of the range and include features that present a graphical report of how VMTU has improved the user's experience. Store usage data in a simple text file, making it easy for advanced users to import the data into other applications for further analysis. You could even go so far as to allow users to submit the usage data to your site where you can offer further analysis. This could lead you into using the data to promote the product to users in countries that would benefit the most from it - and you could back it up with real data. All of this would increase the perceived value of the product allowing you to price accordingly. It could also work to open the door to a subscription-based service thereby providing you with on-going revenue instead of one-time sales. You could also add value to your marketing efforts by describing the benefits of downloading the minimum package, since this works to establish your credibility with potential customers even before they download the product. If you like the usage information idea described above, you could require users that evaluate your product to agree to send you usage information thereby providing benefits to the end users (by allowing them to evaluate the product for free) and to you (by getting free usage statistics which you can subsequently use to market the
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>>Nowhere in the world are their thieves and robbers as >>there are in Madras Drop me a mail before you start the next time.. i will make sure you wont have to go thru the rough patch with richshaw people.... I was at kerala (kollam) sometime back and realised how the rickshaw fares differ when compared with chennai cheers Kannan
Thanks Kannan :-) No offence intended, okay? I thought the chennai girls were cool, specially the ones I saw at spencer plaza :omg: :omg: :omg: oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Buy the auto-guys were well.....I wont say anythin more Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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60 days sounds like a reasonable period to me. What's the application? Derek Lakin. I wish I was what I thought I was when I wished I was what I am. Salamander Software Ltd.
Derek Lakin wrote: What's the application? It's a Transmission Unit Algorthim, for ISP server connections whilst there is nothing similar to it on the market, a lot of folk confuse it with MTU registry tweakers etc. It does that also if auser wishes. I think I need to repackage it Derek so it is not confused with other products etc. If you want check it out at http://www.vmtu.com, All most all of my feedback has been positive to date, apart from Linux zealots and MAC thingy users :-) . Any suggestions from you are appreciated! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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My phylosophy (spelling?) has been simple. Charge less, and more people will pay for the product. Why charge $150 for a product and get one registration when you can charge $15 and get 25 or more people to register. Colin Davies wrote: I bet you also have seen a 9.95$ product compete against a 69.95$ product, for example and the 69.95$ product wins the sale because of it's percieved value. Yup...and one of the apps that comes to mind is Multimedia Builder from Mediachance.com. His products are cheaply priced...yet they compete with major league companies like Macromedia. Truth is, no matter how much YOU think your work (app) is worth...it isnt worth crap unless someone out there finds it usefull and buys it. :) Frank
Frank Deo wrote: Why charge $150 for a product and get one registration when you can charge $15 and get 25 or more people to register. This is tricky but I think I'd rather sell one at $150 than 25 at $15. The reason being I have the cost of supporting one person, and not 25. Now of course this depends a lot on the product in question and how much support is required. My point realy is that providing good support is an expensive propositon which needs to be factored into the price you charge. Of course you could certainly come out ahead with the the 25 customers, if only a small number required support. But conversly any profit on $15 dissapears with probably just one support request. It is certainly interesting that others have commented that increasing the price has resulted in higher profits, whereas with lowering the price you end up worse off. Frank Deo wrote: Truth is, no matter how much YOU think your work (app) is worth...it isnt worth crap unless someone out there finds it usefull and buys it. Spot on. You also need keep these customers contented and coming back for more. Neville Franks, Author of ED for Windows. Version 4.01 just released, with a C++ Class View that actually works. www.getsoft.com
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Derek Lakin wrote: What's the application? It's a Transmission Unit Algorthim, for ISP server connections whilst there is nothing similar to it on the market, a lot of folk confuse it with MTU registry tweakers etc. It does that also if auser wishes. I think I need to repackage it Derek so it is not confused with other products etc. If you want check it out at http://www.vmtu.com, All most all of my feedback has been positive to date, apart from Linux zealots and MAC thingy users :-) . Any suggestions from you are appreciated! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Now I come to think of it I did download VMTU at one point. I'll have to install it and keep an eye on performance for you. I don't have much time for 'play' at the moment, though :( Colin Davies wrote: Any suggestions from you are appreciated! If you're talking about selling a software product, I would say make the following look good and professional:
- Installation package
- Splash screen
- Icon
- User interface (sorry, can't remember if there is one :-O )
- Help system
- Web site
The product will almost certainly sell itself after that :) If you're talking about suggestions for the product itself. How about some way of actually checking the performance improvement? You could show the current throughput characteristics in a dialog. You could provide a web-based testing facility that times a measured download. The user can try it with and without VMTU. If you need any design services I'm sure we can come to some arrangement ;) Derek Lakin. I wish I was what I thought I was when I wished I was what I am. Salamander Software Ltd.