a hypothetical moral question...
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suppose u work for a bunch of people who are a startup ... they are growing steadily but as ever money is always an issue one day they ask u to add a page to a website that has a link to another site (run by people who are paying a lot of money to the people who pay ur wages) that tries to install spyware / adware on peoples computers would u resign the job or do it?
I would express my concerns in light of all of the recent stories on privacy issues, hijacked PCs being used to send SPAM and DoS, browser defects, possible negative publicity that might be created for supporting a spyware site and possible blacklisting which would decrease traffic. Steve
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suppose u work for a bunch of people who are a startup ... they are growing steadily but as ever money is always an issue one day they ask u to add a page to a website that has a link to another site (run by people who are paying a lot of money to the people who pay ur wages) that tries to install spyware / adware on peoples computers would u resign the job or do it?
I would express my concern, try to ascertain if the boss really understands the implications and if still asked to do it I would do it because that hypothetical person is paid to do what they are told, not to make judgements like that. It's not exactly a life or death issue and if that hypothetical person every wants to find work again and have references they would do well to not be labelled a troublemaker. Also I would immediately start looking for another job if it bothered me. Let's face it, any time you work for anyone else there is always going to be something on one level or another you don't agree with. And don't forget that there are a lot of hyper principled people collecting welfare and going to protests every weekend, lest this hypothetical person become one of them they might do well to quietly exit.
An election is nothing more than the advanced auction of stolen goods. - Ambrose Bierce -
suppose u work for a bunch of people who are a startup ... they are growing steadily but as ever money is always an issue one day they ask u to add a page to a website that has a link to another site (run by people who are paying a lot of money to the people who pay ur wages) that tries to install spyware / adware on peoples computers would u resign the job or do it?
resign.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little past them into the impossible.--Arthur C. Clark
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suppose u work for a bunch of people who are a startup ... they are growing steadily but as ever money is always an issue one day they ask u to add a page to a website that has a link to another site (run by people who are paying a lot of money to the people who pay ur wages) that tries to install spyware / adware on peoples computers would u resign the job or do it?
I'd tell your friend to keep the mouth shut and do it. Because with or without her/his objection they will do it. If a company has to resort to this in seeking funding they are probably close to the bottom of the barrel in pickings. So what John said "Also I would immediately start looking for another job if it bothered me." is what I'd advise as well. Regardz Colin J Davies
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suppose u work for a bunch of people who are a startup ... they are growing steadily but as ever money is always an issue one day they ask u to add a page to a website that has a link to another site (run by people who are paying a lot of money to the people who pay ur wages) that tries to install spyware / adware on peoples computers would u resign the job or do it?
l a u r e n wrote: would u resign the job or do it? I would do it: 1. Because, if I got it right, your site is not installing spyware, you're just linking to one that installs it. You're not legally responsible for any website you link to. 2. Someone will do it. 3. Most important, I need the money (I'm supposing you need the money). I would point then that this I believe that this is in the border between ethical and unethical work, and that I'm looking for a new job, and they should look for a new programmer to replace me. I would be looking for a new job, because: 1. I don't want to do any further jobs like this 2. The company is probably going to ruin by adopting unethical or borderline practices*, so I would need to look for a job anyways... * Yes, I do believe that unethical or borderline practices ruin a company. You can even pick me a company and say "hey, this company has been doing this for a long time and it's growing". But it will ruin the company. Yes, even I am blogging now!
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suppose u work for a bunch of people who are a startup ... they are growing steadily but as ever money is always an issue one day they ask u to add a page to a website that has a link to another site (run by people who are paying a lot of money to the people who pay ur wages) that tries to install spyware / adware on peoples computers would u resign the job or do it?
Good question Lauren, and some very interesting answers. I would love to see how many that would really deny doing it if they really was in that situation... I was in a similar situation a few years back. I worked for a small startup, and every month we were wondering if we got our pay ;) Anyway, it was a good place to work, and we had some fun stuff to do... Then one day we got a consultant job, to make one of those porn-dialers, you know, one of those that uses peoples modem to dial up and connect to a server in a foreign country. There were only 2 C++ devs in that company, me and one of the owners. He told me to do the job, and I told him "No thanks!". Fortunately for me, he did it himself, but if he had tried to force me, I would have done it, as my pay-check kinda pays for my house and car and stuff... I would probaly have been looking for a new job after doing it as I would not want to do too much of that stuff, but fortunately it did not come to that :) To all those that say "I would quit", you are brave souls guys, and are you really sure you would quit and loose your income? It's easy to say, another thing is to do it... - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" ShotKeeper, my Photo Album / Organizer Application[^]
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Well, it's easy for me to say this, since I'm not in your situation, and I've never been in a similar one: "Skip the spyware stuff, or I'm outta here." And that's all based on my irrational hatred for spyware. :) -- Ich bin Joachim von Hassel, und ich bin Pilot der Bundeswehr. Welle: Erdball - F104-G Starfighter
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: irrational hatred for spyware you mean "rational" right? That was a typo right?
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: irrational hatred for spyware you mean "rational" right? That was a typo right?
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell The Second EuroCPian Event will be in Brussels on the 4th of September Can't manage to P/Invoke that Win32 API in .NET? Why not do interop the wiki way!
Well, dislike or contempt would be rational. But hatred seldom is. But yet I hate spyware, and I get really ticked off when I find them. -- Ich bin Joachim von Hassel, und ich bin Pilot der Bundeswehr. Welle: Erdball - F104-G Starfighter
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yes. but i'm a fool to my own principles.
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yes. but i'm a fool to my own principles.
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yes. but i'm a fool to my own principles.
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suppose u work for a bunch of people who are a startup ... they are growing steadily but as ever money is always an issue one day they ask u to add a page to a website that has a link to another site (run by people who are paying a lot of money to the people who pay ur wages) that tries to install spyware / adware on peoples computers would u resign the job or do it?
l a u r e n wrote: would u resign the job or do it? Nah. It's "let the buyer beware", IMO. But, I have a question for you--won't your website get blacklisted pretty quick for this kind of practice, and won't that hurt revenue? Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
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l a u r e n wrote: would u resign the job or do it? Nah. It's "let the buyer beware", IMO. But, I have a question for you--won't your website get blacklisted pretty quick for this kind of practice, and won't that hurt revenue? Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog RealDevs.Net
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don't we all? if s/he is okay with it, then that's her own decision. personally i would prefer to sleep better at night.
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don't we all? if s/he is okay with it, then that's her own decision. personally i would prefer to sleep better at night.
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suppose u work for a bunch of people who are a startup ... they are growing steadily but as ever money is always an issue one day they ask u to add a page to a website that has a link to another site (run by people who are paying a lot of money to the people who pay ur wages) that tries to install spyware / adware on peoples computers would u resign the job or do it?
Good question. If I were in your shoes, this is probably what I'd do: 1. Bring up a legitimate business case for not linking to the spyware. Have some examples of sites/companies that tried to do this but ended up losing out revenue because of this. Intuit (TurboTax) comes ot mind... 2. Get that resume updated! Sure, it's nice to have food, but if your company is resorting to these means, who really knows how much longer it'll be around? So in short, I'd bring up point 1 with the powers that be. I probably wouldn't quit *immediately* - it's somewhat of an ethical issue, but you aren't killing anybody. But I would start looking for new jobs immediately. And totally by coincidence, we're hiring... ;) "Fish and guests stink in three days." - Benjamin Franlkin
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Well there are two keywords in the original thread... "startup" and "spyware" The company is going to be gone in a month at the very least. They should haven't to resort to spyware. Yes there are rare (VERY RARE cases where a startup has gotten away with it, but then again they are in turn for a lighting strike) If the company goes under you have no source of income, will you be prepared or will you drag on and all of a sudden be without a job. Thats just my opinion, it's all up the the person who is in that position. -Steven Hicks
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well, i doubt that being homeless and begging for food would follow that decision... morals have nothing to do with immediate benefit... and because of that the answer should be clear.
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l a u r e n wrote: would u resign the job or do it? I would do it: 1. Because, if I got it right, your site is not installing spyware, you're just linking to one that installs it. You're not legally responsible for any website you link to. 2. Someone will do it. 3. Most important, I need the money (I'm supposing you need the money). I would point then that this I believe that this is in the border between ethical and unethical work, and that I'm looking for a new job, and they should look for a new programmer to replace me. I would be looking for a new job, because: 1. I don't want to do any further jobs like this 2. The company is probably going to ruin by adopting unethical or borderline practices*, so I would need to look for a job anyways... * Yes, I do believe that unethical or borderline practices ruin a company. You can even pick me a company and say "hey, this company has been doing this for a long time and it's growing". But it will ruin the company. Yes, even I am blogging now!
Daniel Turini wrote: * Yes, I do believe that unethical or borderline practices ruin a company. You can even pick me a company and say "hey, this company has been doing this for a long time and it's growing". But it will ruin the company. This is absolutely true I've seen it happen. -Steven Hicks
CPA
CodeProjectAddict
Actual Linux Penguins were harmed in the creation of this message.
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well, i doubt that being homeless and begging for food would follow that decision... morals have nothing to do with immediate benefit... and because of that the answer should be clear.