Analyzing Kerry's acceptance speech...
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i thought his speech was pretty good. i'd never seen much of him speaking before - i'd only heard the GOP spin that he was wooden and fake and condescending. i didn't see any of that. he seemed sincere and honest and even likeable. he's certainly not as much of a speaker as the other three stars (Clinton, Obama and Edwards), but few are. most importantly, he gave me a reason to vote for him other than Anyone-But-Bush . Software | Cleek
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He must have forgotten how to salute properly:suss: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/federal/images/040729kerry-salute.jpg[^] "Daniel Frary, of Farmington, N.M., learns the proper way to salute during Induction Day at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md." http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-3059121.php[^] :rolleyes: Later, JoeSox "If it weren't for baseball, many kids wouldn't know what a millionaire looked like." --Phyllis Diller joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
If you didn't know he was in Vietnam, well you certainly do now. His service in 'Nam was way overplayed. I'm sure democrats loved it though.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
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that he seemed 'sincere and honest and even likeable'. that alone puts him miles ahead of sneering, condescending and petulant w. i never put much stock in any of the inane GOP spin points on him (flip-flopper, appeaser, french, extreme-liberal whatever), and i think he knocked them down pretty well. IMO, w is a failure. he failed to protect, he failed to lead, he failed to deliver. he doesn't deserve 4 more years. Software | Cleek
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If you didn't know he was in Vietnam, well you certainly do now. His service in 'Nam was way overplayed. I'm sure democrats loved it though.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
blogIt's funny how when Clinton was running for office, Vietnam was not an issue at all. Now, apparently it is extremely important. Jeff Martin Triple20 Software
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I can't believe it he tossed off such a sloppy salute. If he were going to do somthing that sappy at least he could have done it properly. Other than that, all I heard was the same Communinist Manefesto crap ("Tax the rich!!!! Feed the poor!!!!!")the Democrats have been trying to sell for the last 30 years. "We are here to save Americans (and the world) from America! Vote for me and the government will be used to solve all your problems for you. "... X| BTW, I think the notion of giving "tax relief" to the middle class but taxing the hell out of the "rich" people who give jobs to the middle class to be an utterly ludicrous notion as well as the notion that heatlh care and education are too expensive because the government isn't doing enough to help pay for them. Liberals are idiots. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
Stan Shannon wrote: all I heard was the same Make that socialist platform and I agree. However I actually could care less what the acceptance speech of his (or anyone else) is. What is their voting record and what do they champion for and against. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
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that he seemed 'sincere and honest and even likeable'. that alone puts him miles ahead of sneering, condescending and petulant w. i never put much stock in any of the inane GOP spin points on him (flip-flopper, appeaser, french, extreme-liberal whatever), and i think he knocked them down pretty well. IMO, w is a failure. he failed to protect, he failed to lead, he failed to deliver. he doesn't deserve 4 more years. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: flip-flopper, appeaser, french, extreme-liberal whatever But he has flip-flopped on several issues. He is a lib. He does want to appease the axis of weasles. French - no, but that's just a joke. Chris Losinger wrote: IMO, w is a failure. he failed to protect, he failed to lead, he failed to deliver. he doesn't deserve 4 more years. I already knew that.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
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Chris Losinger wrote: flip-flopper, appeaser, french, extreme-liberal whatever But he has flip-flopped on several issues. He is a lib. He does want to appease the axis of weasles. French - no, but that's just a joke. Chris Losinger wrote: IMO, w is a failure. he failed to protect, he failed to lead, he failed to deliver. he doesn't deserve 4 more years. I already knew that.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
blogJason Henderson wrote: But he has flip-flopped on several issues the standard GOP talking points on this are pretty weak. they require the reader to ignore how the Senate works, how situations change over time, and generally they leave out all context (ie. what else was in the bill, was it a procedural vote, were there alternative bills out there, etc). but, just taking all of them superficially and assuming the spin is the truth: if flip-flop is a sin, w's headed for the hot place. Jason Henderson wrote: He is a lib shocking. welcome to america. Jason Henderson wrote: He does want to appease the axis of weasles proof? i know the GOP slime machine keeps saying it, but that doesn't make it true. -c Software | Cleek
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Jason Henderson wrote: But he has flip-flopped on several issues the standard GOP talking points on this are pretty weak. they require the reader to ignore how the Senate works, how situations change over time, and generally they leave out all context (ie. what else was in the bill, was it a procedural vote, were there alternative bills out there, etc). but, just taking all of them superficially and assuming the spin is the truth: if flip-flop is a sin, w's headed for the hot place. Jason Henderson wrote: He is a lib shocking. welcome to america. Jason Henderson wrote: He does want to appease the axis of weasles proof? i know the GOP slime machine keeps saying it, but that doesn't make it true. -c Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: the standard GOP talking points on this are pretty weak. they require the reader to ignore how the Senate works, how situations change over time, and generally they leave out all context (ie. what else was in the bill, was it a procedural vote, were there alternative bills out there, etc). but, just taking all of them superficially and assuming the spin is the truth: if flip-flop is a sin, w's headed for the hot place. I think Bush has done pretty much everything he has said he would do. Kerry has flip-flopped repeatedly on Iraq alone. Chris Losinger wrote: Jason Henderson wrote: He is a lib shocking. welcome to america. Didn't you say you had a hard time believing the repubs claims of him being an extreme liberal? He's got a more liberal voting record in the Senate than Kennedy. That's pretty dang extreme. Chris Losinger wrote: Jason Henderson wrote: He does want to appease the axis of weasles proof? i know the GOP slime machine keeps saying it, but that doesn't make it true. I don't listen to Rush that much. Maybe 10-15 minutes on a weekday tops. I listen to a Christian radio station most of the time. Wait a minute. I thought you mentioned Rush in there. Maybe you changed it? Anyway Kerry keeps saying it. He wants to regain our lost respect in Europe (i.e. France and Germany). Frankly, I could care less if we get anything from them anymore. They lost our respect, or at least mine.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
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It's funny how when Clinton was running for office, Vietnam was not an issue at all. Now, apparently it is extremely important. Jeff Martin Triple20 Software
Jeff Martin wrote: when Clinton was running for office, Vietnam was not an issue at all. ...and Kerry was one of those most vocal about that... "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
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Parade ground salutes are designed for the parade ground and military HQ. The regular salute is used to show respect and conformity. I'm sure Kerry chose and practised that salute for the message it would convey, since it was the most memorable part of his performance. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
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ColinDavies wrote: I'm sure Kerry chose and practised that salute for the message it would convey, since it was the most memorable part of his performance. Yeah, I know. I always look at salutes I just can't help it. Simply because I still remember my Company Commander drilling us in boot camp.:laugh: Good times.:-D Later, JoeSox "If it weren't for baseball, many kids wouldn't know what a millionaire looked like." --Phyllis Diller joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Chris Losinger wrote: the standard GOP talking points on this are pretty weak. they require the reader to ignore how the Senate works, how situations change over time, and generally they leave out all context (ie. what else was in the bill, was it a procedural vote, were there alternative bills out there, etc). but, just taking all of them superficially and assuming the spin is the truth: if flip-flop is a sin, w's headed for the hot place. I think Bush has done pretty much everything he has said he would do. Kerry has flip-flopped repeatedly on Iraq alone. Chris Losinger wrote: Jason Henderson wrote: He is a lib shocking. welcome to america. Didn't you say you had a hard time believing the repubs claims of him being an extreme liberal? He's got a more liberal voting record in the Senate than Kennedy. That's pretty dang extreme. Chris Losinger wrote: Jason Henderson wrote: He does want to appease the axis of weasles proof? i know the GOP slime machine keeps saying it, but that doesn't make it true. I don't listen to Rush that much. Maybe 10-15 minutes on a weekday tops. I listen to a Christian radio station most of the time. Wait a minute. I thought you mentioned Rush in there. Maybe you changed it? Anyway Kerry keeps saying it. He wants to regain our lost respect in Europe (i.e. France and Germany). Frankly, I could care less if we get anything from them anymore. They lost our respect, or at least mine.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
blogJason Henderson wrote: I think Bush has done pretty much everything he has said he would do. so, it's not a flip-flop to campaign on a 'nation building' then promptly start not one but two nation building efforts ? he ran on a promise to not touch the Social Security surplus. less than a year later... and... steel tarrifs. creation of the WMD commission. creation of the WMD commission. testifying before the 9/11 commission. Dept of Homeland Security. Ken Lay. Chalabi. OBL. final UN vote on Iraq. McCain-Feingold. assault weapons ban. Bush changed positions on all of those. i'm sure there are more. are they "flip-flops" or something else? Jason Henderson wrote: Kerry has flip-flopped repeatedly on Iraq alone. proof? really. let's see the quotes, the bills and the context for each. Jason Henderson wrote: Didn't you say you had a hard time believing the repubs claims of him being an extreme liberal? i do. but, you didn't use the word "extreme", you said "He is a lib". Jason Henderson wrote: He's got a more liberal voting record in the Senate than Kennedy. again, that's spin. different ranking systems give different results. and again, welcome to america. 'liberal' is not a dirty word and it's not some alien approach to politics: it's the way roughly 50% of the country feels the government should be run. Jason Henderson wrote: He wants to regain our lost respect in Europe now explain how that means "appeasment". i can respect someone earn someone's respect without appeasing them. can you? [ok, i'm completely at a loss as to why this post would get any votes at all] Software | Cleek
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I can't believe it he tossed off such a sloppy salute. If he were going to do somthing that sappy at least he could have done it properly. Other than that, all I heard was the same Communinist Manefesto crap ("Tax the rich!!!! Feed the poor!!!!!")the Democrats have been trying to sell for the last 30 years. "We are here to save Americans (and the world) from America! Vote for me and the government will be used to solve all your problems for you. "... X| BTW, I think the notion of giving "tax relief" to the middle class but taxing the hell out of the "rich" people who give jobs to the middle class to be an utterly ludicrous notion as well as the notion that heatlh care and education are too expensive because the government isn't doing enough to help pay for them. Liberals are idiots. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
Stan Shannon wrote: I can't believe it he tossed off such a sloppy salute. If he were going to do somthing that sappy at least he could have done it properly. Well, that's what I thought but I have seen previous Commander in Chiefs give almost the same salute to actual Military personel so this proves the world in which we live in is not perfect and needs much improvement.;P But seriously, "George Washington had a vision for this country. Was it three days of uninterrupted shopping?" Jeff Melvoin, Northern Exposure, Bolt from the Blue, 1994 Later, JoeSox "If it weren't for baseball, many kids wouldn't know what a millionaire looked like." --Phyllis Diller joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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It's funny how when Clinton was running for office, Vietnam was not an issue at all. Now, apparently it is extremely important. Jeff Martin Triple20 Software
Jeff Martin wrote: It's funny how when Clinton was running for office, Vietnam was not an issue at all. It's funny, I remember the WTC was still standing back then.:| Later, JoeSox "If it weren't for baseball, many kids wouldn't know what a millionaire looked like." --Phyllis Diller joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Stan Shannon wrote: all I heard was the same Make that socialist platform and I agree. However I actually could care less what the acceptance speech of his (or anyone else) is. What is their voting record and what do they champion for and against. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
Michael A. Barnhart wrote: socialist platform Socialism, communism, modern liberalism, fascism - all variations of the same theme... The distinctions are not significant enough to be concerned with. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
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Jason Henderson wrote: I think Bush has done pretty much everything he has said he would do. so, it's not a flip-flop to campaign on a 'nation building' then promptly start not one but two nation building efforts ? he ran on a promise to not touch the Social Security surplus. less than a year later... and... steel tarrifs. creation of the WMD commission. creation of the WMD commission. testifying before the 9/11 commission. Dept of Homeland Security. Ken Lay. Chalabi. OBL. final UN vote on Iraq. McCain-Feingold. assault weapons ban. Bush changed positions on all of those. i'm sure there are more. are they "flip-flops" or something else? Jason Henderson wrote: Kerry has flip-flopped repeatedly on Iraq alone. proof? really. let's see the quotes, the bills and the context for each. Jason Henderson wrote: Didn't you say you had a hard time believing the repubs claims of him being an extreme liberal? i do. but, you didn't use the word "extreme", you said "He is a lib". Jason Henderson wrote: He's got a more liberal voting record in the Senate than Kennedy. again, that's spin. different ranking systems give different results. and again, welcome to america. 'liberal' is not a dirty word and it's not some alien approach to politics: it's the way roughly 50% of the country feels the government should be run. Jason Henderson wrote: He wants to regain our lost respect in Europe now explain how that means "appeasment". i can respect someone earn someone's respect without appeasing them. can you? [ok, i'm completely at a loss as to why this post would get any votes at all] Software | Cleek
Jason Henderson wrote: Kerry keeps saying it. He wants to regain our lost respect in Europe (i.e. France and Germany). Frankly, I could care less if we get anything from them anymore. They lost our respect, or at least mine. Yeah that plays great in a room full of hard asses but try to conduct all aspects of government and business in the modern global environment and see how far it gets you. Jason Henderson wrote: Kerry has flip-flopped repeatedly on Iraq alone. This "flip-flop" thing is getting old. A couple nights ago the DMC coverage on CNN had a small panel including Bob Dole that discussed that issue. Every one of them agreed with the point that every politician has changed their stance on issues during their career. It is part of the landscape and is therefore as ruse. In fact if you look at GWB you will see the same. First Bin Laden was our #1 priority, then later he wasn't. First we needed the War because of WMDs now we needed it because we wanted to be safer. We are safer, America is safer, Americans are safer, the world is safer. Whatever, stick it up your WMD. Chris Losinger wrote: Bush changed positions on all of those. i'm sure there are more. Yeah how about we needed the war because Iraq has WMDs. Now we need the war to make everyone safer! Whatever. Chris Losinger wrote: 'liberal' is not a dirty word Yes just like "conservative" is not a dirty word. Anyone that only throws those words and talking points around but does not debate the facts and merits of individual issues is only showing their propensity for being incited by rhetoric. It's like the crowds that burned witches at the stake. Some freak yells out "Burn her" and the rest of the mindless crowd of dolts get excited and starts flipping their bics.
Hate is not a family value
-pete
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Jason Henderson wrote: I think Bush has done pretty much everything he has said he would do. so, it's not a flip-flop to campaign on a 'nation building' then promptly start not one but two nation building efforts ? he ran on a promise to not touch the Social Security surplus. less than a year later... and... steel tarrifs. creation of the WMD commission. creation of the WMD commission. testifying before the 9/11 commission. Dept of Homeland Security. Ken Lay. Chalabi. OBL. final UN vote on Iraq. McCain-Feingold. assault weapons ban. Bush changed positions on all of those. i'm sure there are more. are they "flip-flops" or something else? Jason Henderson wrote: Kerry has flip-flopped repeatedly on Iraq alone. proof? really. let's see the quotes, the bills and the context for each. Jason Henderson wrote: Didn't you say you had a hard time believing the repubs claims of him being an extreme liberal? i do. but, you didn't use the word "extreme", you said "He is a lib". Jason Henderson wrote: He's got a more liberal voting record in the Senate than Kennedy. again, that's spin. different ranking systems give different results. and again, welcome to america. 'liberal' is not a dirty word and it's not some alien approach to politics: it's the way roughly 50% of the country feels the government should be run. Jason Henderson wrote: He wants to regain our lost respect in Europe now explain how that means "appeasment". i can respect someone earn someone's respect without appeasing them. can you? [ok, i'm completely at a loss as to why this post would get any votes at all] Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: Bush changed positions on all of those. i'm sure there are more. Granted, you can't effectively govern without changing your mind on some things.
- I didn't like the steel tariffs, big Bush mistake IMO.
- WMD Commission? Not sure what you're talking about.
- Testifying before 9/11 - come on.
- Dept. of Homeland Sec. - compromise. I think the Dems wanted this didn't they? Should make you happy.
- Ken Lay - this is a flip-flop?
- Chalabi - he ended up being a crook. you should be happy Bush dumped him.
- OBL - last I heard we were still looking for him
- final UN vote on Iraq - Not sure what you're talking about.
- McCain-Feingold - another mistake. nobody's perfect
- AWB - did he say he wouldn't renew it in the past?
Chris Losinger wrote: Kerry has flip-flopped repeatedly on Iraq alone. proof? really. let's see the quotes, the bills and the context for each. Jeez Chris, he voted to give Bush authority to into Iraq, and just a little while later he's against it. What more proof do you need? Chris Losinger wrote: He's got a more liberal voting record in the Senate than Kennedy. again, that's spin. different ranking systems give different results. and again, welcome to america. 'liberal' is not a dirty word and it's not some alien approach to politics: it's the way roughly 50% of the country feels the government should be run. Yes, but he's still rather high in most results. You can't say he's a moderate. 50% are not liberal. More like 25%. 50% aren't conservative either. Neither are dirty words, but don't both sides use them as such? Anyway, I don't want to use it as a dirty word, but rather as a descriptive term. Kerry is a liberal, not the great Satan mind you, but still the opposite of my ideology. Nothing wrong with being a liberal except that I don't agree with liberalism and I think its a messed up way of thinking. Not realistic and not appealing to me. If Kerry wants to be a liberal, that's fine, but the voting public should know where Kerry stands on the issues.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson<
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Jeff Martin wrote: It's funny how when Clinton was running for office, Vietnam was not an issue at all. It's funny, I remember the WTC was still standing back then.:| Later, JoeSox "If it weren't for baseball, many kids wouldn't know what a millionaire looked like." --Phyllis Diller joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
Some of our greatest war-time presidents had no fighting experience.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
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I can't believe it he tossed off such a sloppy salute. If he were going to do somthing that sappy at least he could have done it properly. Other than that, all I heard was the same Communinist Manefesto crap ("Tax the rich!!!! Feed the poor!!!!!")the Democrats have been trying to sell for the last 30 years. "We are here to save Americans (and the world) from America! Vote for me and the government will be used to solve all your problems for you. "... X| BTW, I think the notion of giving "tax relief" to the middle class but taxing the hell out of the "rich" people who give jobs to the middle class to be an utterly ludicrous notion as well as the notion that heatlh care and education are too expensive because the government isn't doing enough to help pay for them. Liberals are idiots. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
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If you didn't know he was in Vietnam, well you certainly do now. His service in 'Nam was way overplayed. I'm sure democrats loved it though.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
blogYep. I believe he spent 3 -4 months in Nam. I spent 13 months - I also have a few awards ( I kept mine ). So I guess I better run for president if thats all it takes. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
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Jeff Martin wrote: It's funny how when Clinton was running for office, Vietnam was not an issue at all. It's funny, I remember the WTC was still standing back then.:| Later, JoeSox "If it weren't for baseball, many kids wouldn't know what a millionaire looked like." --Phyllis Diller joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
JoeSox wrote: It's funny, I remember the WTC was still standing back then. If you are going to be playing the blame game I would suggest that the root cause is James Earl Carter's dismantling of the CIA and the loss of our ability to gather humint in most of the world. It takes years to develop that kind of assest and only a short time to lose it. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
