Analyzing Kerry's acceptance speech...
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Chris Losinger wrote: he's not a partisan Democrat as much as he is a Fight The Power kindof guy Democrats thought of him enough to let him speak at the convention. $100 says he does nothing if Kerry wins the campaign and screws the little guy.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
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Chris Losinger wrote: Modern Liberalism unfortunatly is much closer to communist I agree, it's silly to call liberals communists. Socialist is a more fitting term, although it is socialism on the social aspects of society, rather than the business. Nationalized Health Care, Welfare, etc. It's still taking private sector responsibility and making it public. I don't think its a good thing and the European economy proves it.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
blogJason Henderson wrote: I agree, it's silly to call liberals communists. Socialist is a more fitting term, although it is socialism on the social aspects of society, rather than the business. Nationalized Health Care, Welfare, etc. It's still taking private sector responsibility and making it public. I don't think its a good thing and the European economy proves it. That's splitting hairs though. It is a matter of degrees not absolutes. When the socialistic systems fail, as everyone knows they will, a dependent popoulation will demand more help, not less, and the direction will be ever closer to full blown communism. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
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Work harder. When I was a child in the 50's and 60's my parents were poor and there were no government programs or insurance to help us and we were easily able to avail ourselves of health care. They had to work hard, but they did it (with some help from local churches and on one occasion the Lion's club) The more government helps, the harder it is to get it. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
Hmmm, I bet health care wasn't as expensive back then as it is now. But that shouldn't matter...nawww. I somewhat agree with you that "choices" reflect whether you are poor or not. Like if you make diddly squat, don't have eight kids! My objections to conservatism are cutting funding for education, raping the environment and a refusal due to a conflict of interest to move us toward alternative fuels. Although I somewhat blame the public for not putting their money behind green products. I also dislike the Christian Faith being shoved down my throat and a blind devotion to Israel...
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I disagree that government is the problem, it's parents and their lack of attention to students and their progress in school. If parents spent more time with their kids helping with homework and being involved with school and voting for representatives that pushed for better funding in schools, public schools would improve. I realize propety taxes have a lot to do with it but parents should be vigorously involved in supporting and shaping the education of their kids. Face it, if as much out of pocket money was spend on schools and school activities as is spend on sports, education would be much better. It's about priorities... :(
adonisv wrote: it's parents and their lack of attention to students and their progress in school. But what can the government do to solve bad parents? Should there be a Department of Parenting? A government enforced standard of parenting we must all adhere to? adonisv wrote: Face it, if as much out of pocket money was spend on schools and school activities as is spend on sports, education would be much better. It's about priorities... If money were the problem, the problem would be solved. http://www.policyalmanac.org/education/archive/doe_education_spending.shtml[^] "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
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Chris Losinger wrote: why some conservatives insist on using pointless ad hominem attacks because I get a thrill out of stating the obvious. I believe this man has done more harm to the country than almost anyone in today's environment. Specifically because of the lies he's produced as fact and the press' and liberal media's belief in the accuracy thereof. Couple that with the attention span of the MTV generaton and you have disaster. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times "I don't want a president who is friends with France or Germany" Me Paraphrasing Kerry: I've spoken to many world leaders - they all look at me and say, you've got to win. I just can't tell you who they are. Me
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Chris Losinger wrote: hmm. interesting article more interesting in light of this[^] from the same source. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times "I don't want a president who is friends with France or Germany" Me Paraphrasing Kerry: I've spoken to many world leaders - they all look at me and say, you've got to win. I just can't tell you who they are. Me
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JoeSox wrote: "By 1837, the Jackson administration had removed 46,000 Native American people from their land east of the Mississippi, and had secured treaties which led to the removal of a slightly larger number. Most members of the five southeastern nations had been relocated west, opening 25 million acres of land to white settlement and to slavery." And where would you be if he hadn't done that? My own direct ancestors served under Jackson in the Indian wars of the early 19th century and became settlers on the newly opened lands. I find it offensive that you characerize my family's American experience as "dark history". Hell, they established the very concept of what it means to be an American - the frigging Indians didn't. Without their effort and sacrifice this nation would not exist. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
Stan Shannon wrote: And where would you be if he hadn't done that? I don't know. Stan Shannon wrote: I find it offensive that you characerize my family's American experience as "dark history". Well, sorry but it's true. We killed for capitalism and the future safety of our nation. Not a bad thing, just fact. Realism sucks sometimes. People get hurt during cultural power struggles. What's that one quote? War is the manure of man or something like that. Stan Shannon wrote: Without their effort and sacrifice this nation would not exist. Well, that's a hasty generalization if I have ever heard one. <sarcasm>Oh yes, good thing or this Two-Party System wouldn't be able to run the world as it does.</sarcasm> Maybe we could have made peace with the Native Americans and they would have been treated as equals to white man, instead of segregation and government handouts. If the right leaders came about. Maybe even saving lives on both ends too. Later, JoeSox "If it weren't for baseball, many kids wouldn't know what a millionaire looked like." --Phyllis Diller joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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adonisv wrote: it's parents and their lack of attention to students and their progress in school. But what can the government do to solve bad parents? Should there be a Department of Parenting? A government enforced standard of parenting we must all adhere to? adonisv wrote: Face it, if as much out of pocket money was spend on schools and school activities as is spend on sports, education would be much better. It's about priorities... If money were the problem, the problem would be solved. http://www.policyalmanac.org/education/archive/doe_education_spending.shtml[^] "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
Well when schools are litterally "falling apart," cause money isn't there to repair them, you have problems. If teachers were treated with the rock star like admiration that "criminal atheletes" are treated to, things would be different. Money IS an issue. If teachers were highly paid, people would WANT to be teachers. When teachers have to spend their own money for supplies for students, money is a problem. If a school has outdated books because there aren't the funds to buy new ones, that's a problem. But why fix this? This way there will always be a class of people who will turn to the military for their chance to make it in the world while the wealthy can stay in good paying careers and have "other priorities." This way the poor go off to fight wars, get killed or mutilated and the upper class need not get its hands dirty while it profits from the death and decapitation of the poor. Then Bush can say, "oh we APPRECIATE" your sacrifice. Hey I really appreciate that you got your face blown off or your arms blown off so I didn't have too. LOL! The joke's on you POOR SUCKER!!! ;)
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So what, better than being a mindless DOLT who likes to "dig in the dirt" at this Texas rancb in Crawford. The trush, Bush stole the election and that was a harbinger of bad things to come, recession, 911, Enron collapse, Iraq war. Dubya is the devil. No actually DICK cheney is the devil and Dubya is his hand puppet. Plus the Bush family has a conflict of interest when it comes to oil. They will never lead this country into an alternative fuel economy...:laugh:
adonisv wrote: Bush stole the election how stupid are you? oh, never mind. adonisv wrote: They will never lead this country into an alternative fuel economy and the dream-o-crats did with their 8 years? Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times "I don't want a president who is friends with France or Germany" Me Paraphrasing Kerry: I've spoken to many world leaders - they all look at me and say, you've got to win. I just can't tell you who they are. Me
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Chris Losinger wrote: it's the simple fact that Marxism is so wildly different from what even the most left-leaning Democrat suggests that make your cries of "Marxism!Marxism!Marxism!" funny. Well what are the intellectual origins of modern "liberal" principles? Who do you think would be most comfortable with the centralized social control political systems exercise today, Jefferson or Marx? Who do you think would be most comfortable with the promotion of a secualar society by government Jefferson or Marx? Who do you think would be most comfortable with placing increased tax burdens on the "rich" Jefferson or Marx? If there is a third philosophical tradition from which modern politcal systems derive please explain them. As far as I am concerned the contest continues to be between Jefferson and Marx. The modern liberal movement is clearly intent upon the promotion of an essentially and inherently Marxist world view, and fear nothing more than the success of the Jeffersonian ideal. Nothing could be more obvious. Just becasue you give it a different name doesn't change the fact of what it trully is beneath the grand deception. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
Stan Shannon wrote: Well what are the intellectual origins of modern "liberal" principles? one of the main roots is definitely the 1910's progressive populism of people like Teddy Roosevelt - who advocated for things like government imposed safety standards, living wages, business regulation, environmental conservation, etc.. just skim the speech i link to; you'll find an interesting mix of modern liberalism, federalism and libertariantism. Stan Shannon wrote: Who do you think would be most comfortable with the centralized social control political systems exercise today, Jefferson or Marx? Marx would probably vomit if you called the current American govt system "Marxist". Jefferson would probably do the same if you told him this is what he wrought. but that's not solely the fault of the left. Stan Shannon wrote: Who do you think would be most comfortable with the promotion of a secualar society by government Jefferson or Marx? that's a meaningless question, since the left isn't promoting a "secular society". Stan Shannon wrote: Who do you think would be most comfortable with placing increased tax burdens on the "rich" Jefferson or Marx?
"Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1784. "Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785. "The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied... Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." --Thomas Jefferson to Thaddeus Kosciusko, 1811.
Marx believed that taxes could destroy capitalism, and that they could also be used to perpetuate it, depending on the rates. But since his goal wasn't simply to destroy capitalism but to replace it with a system where there wouldn't be any "rich" people to tax at a high rate, taxes are kindof irrelevan
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JoeSox wrote: True but a German buddy of mine was just pointing out that we still have Andrew Jackson on our $20 bills. How quickly we ignore our own dark history. Who was it that said "Anyone who looks at history without context is at best a fool and at worst a revisionist". Abe Lincoln fought as a Captain in the Blackhawk war. Does that also make him a bad boy also. I could go on and on but why bother. Google does not teach - it give facts only. Facts without context are like numbers without operators - worthless while still being valid. JoeSox wrote: Most members of the five southeastern nations had been relocated west, opening 25 million acres of land to white settlement and to slavery." Don't blame the US: http://www.al-islam.org/slavery/1.htm JoeSox wrote: I say all this because USA = Hypocrisy This is ,I hope ,your own opinion. It certainly isn't mine or anyone I know. It is a wonder that so many people risk so much just to get here - seeing as it is such a bad place. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
Richard Stringer wrote: Abe Lincoln fought as a Captain in the Blackhawk war. Does that also make him a bad boy also. Dude, I helped bomb Iraq in '96. I probably helped kill people. Put that in context, and get back to me. Richard Stringer wrote: This is ,I hope ,your own opinion. Well, I meant the current Federal Government and the CPD. I don't think the entire USA is a hypocrisy. Although, most practice it everyday. Am I the only one? "A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy." Benjamin Disraeli Later, JoeSox "If it weren't for baseball, many kids wouldn't know what a millionaire looked like." --Phyllis Diller joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Chris Losinger wrote: why some conservatives insist on using pointless ad hominem attacks because I get a thrill out of stating the obvious. I believe this man has done more harm to the country than almost anyone in today's environment. Specifically because of the lies he's produced as fact and the press' and liberal media's belief in the accuracy thereof. Couple that with the attention span of the MTV generaton and you have disaster. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times "I don't want a president who is friends with France or Germany" Me Paraphrasing Kerry: I've spoken to many world leaders - they all look at me and say, you've got to win. I just can't tell you who they are. Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: I believe this man has done more harm to the country than almost anyone in today's environment. hmm. i was thinking the same thing about Limbaugh. Mike Gaskey wrote: the press' and liberal media's belief in the accuracy thereof you must not watch much TV or read much. all the reviews and press i see him get are full of accusations of distortions on his part. even on the left, people know he plays fast and loose with his editing. he isn't getting away with much. Software | Cleek
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Well when schools are litterally "falling apart," cause money isn't there to repair them, you have problems. If teachers were treated with the rock star like admiration that "criminal atheletes" are treated to, things would be different. Money IS an issue. If teachers were highly paid, people would WANT to be teachers. When teachers have to spend their own money for supplies for students, money is a problem. If a school has outdated books because there aren't the funds to buy new ones, that's a problem. But why fix this? This way there will always be a class of people who will turn to the military for their chance to make it in the world while the wealthy can stay in good paying careers and have "other priorities." This way the poor go off to fight wars, get killed or mutilated and the upper class need not get its hands dirty while it profits from the death and decapitation of the poor. Then Bush can say, "oh we APPRECIATE" your sacrifice. Hey I really appreciate that you got your face blown off or your arms blown off so I didn't have too. LOL! The joke's on you POOR SUCKER!!! ;)
adonisv wrote: cause money isn't there... adonisv wrote: Money IS an issue. If teachers were highly paid... adonisv wrote: ...money is a problem. adonisv wrote: ...there aren't the funds... Didja ever consider that maybe the government bureaucracy is wasting education money and that throwing more money at it is even more wasteful and unlikely to fix the core problem? "The gay marriage thing scared me, but that's only because I thought at first it was mandatory." Jon Stewart
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Jeff Martin wrote: It's funny how when Clinton was running for office, Vietnam was not an issue at all. It's funny, I remember the WTC was still standing back then.:| Later, JoeSox "If it weren't for baseball, many kids wouldn't know what a millionaire looked like." --Phyllis Diller joeswammi.com ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
WTF does Vietnam have to do with the WTC? As I recall, it was 19 Middle Eastern men, not 19 VietCong. Jeff Martin Triple20 Software
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Well when schools are litterally "falling apart," cause money isn't there to repair them, you have problems. If teachers were treated with the rock star like admiration that "criminal atheletes" are treated to, things would be different. Money IS an issue. If teachers were highly paid, people would WANT to be teachers. When teachers have to spend their own money for supplies for students, money is a problem. If a school has outdated books because there aren't the funds to buy new ones, that's a problem. But why fix this? This way there will always be a class of people who will turn to the military for their chance to make it in the world while the wealthy can stay in good paying careers and have "other priorities." This way the poor go off to fight wars, get killed or mutilated and the upper class need not get its hands dirty while it profits from the death and decapitation of the poor. Then Bush can say, "oh we APPRECIATE" your sacrifice. Hey I really appreciate that you got your face blown off or your arms blown off so I didn't have too. LOL! The joke's on you POOR SUCKER!!! ;)
adonisv wrote: If teachers were highly paid, people would WANT to be teachers do you know what the pay scale is? I know junior high school teachers who make 60k - 75k per year. is that bad? the reason many qualified people don't teach is the politically correct nature of the classroom. discipline is not allowed and attempting to get rid of a problem kid that disrupts everything takes an act of God. It is a thankless job, if a teacher fails a kid the teacher gets into trouble. These, along with the fact that parents that don't do their job is the reason for school problems, not a lack of money. if parents do their job, kids can be taught in a tent with a lantern for light. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times "I don't want a president who is friends with France or Germany" Me Paraphrasing Kerry: I've spoken to many world leaders - they all look at me and say, you've got to win. I just can't tell you who they are. Me
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adonisv wrote: If teachers were highly paid, people would WANT to be teachers do you know what the pay scale is? I know junior high school teachers who make 60k - 75k per year. is that bad? the reason many qualified people don't teach is the politically correct nature of the classroom. discipline is not allowed and attempting to get rid of a problem kid that disrupts everything takes an act of God. It is a thankless job, if a teacher fails a kid the teacher gets into trouble. These, along with the fact that parents that don't do their job is the reason for school problems, not a lack of money. if parents do their job, kids can be taught in a tent with a lantern for light. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times "I don't want a president who is friends with France or Germany" Me Paraphrasing Kerry: I've spoken to many world leaders - they all look at me and say, you've got to win. I just can't tell you who they are. Me
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adonisv wrote: cause money isn't there... adonisv wrote: Money IS an issue. If teachers were highly paid... adonisv wrote: ...money is a problem. adonisv wrote: ...there aren't the funds... Didja ever consider that maybe the government bureaucracy is wasting education money and that throwing more money at it is even more wasteful and unlikely to fix the core problem? "The gay marriage thing scared me, but that's only because I thought at first it was mandatory." Jon Stewart
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Why do people always point out the exception and generalize from there? Most teachers don't make 60k. Even if they DID, what does that football coach at that school make? Get it now?
adonisv wrote: what does that football coach at that school make? Get it now? the same. I was referring to my brother who happens to teach history, life sciences and coaches both football and basketball. To get to the current pay level he had to get a masters, but he did it and he makes a damn good living especially considering the 6 to 8 weeks off each year. That doesn't even speak to his pension. After 33 years of teaching he'll get roughly 75% of the average of his highest 3 years pay as an annual pension. I repeat, money is not the problem. Parents are. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times "I don't want a president who is friends with France or Germany" Me Paraphrasing Kerry: I've spoken to many world leaders - they all look at me and say, you've got to win. I just can't tell you who they are. Me
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adonisv wrote: Your solution is? the solution is: 1) vouchers so kids can leave poorly performing schools, 2) parents that teach their kids the value of learning, 3) government that stays out of the classroom, 4) the destruction of teacher's unions, 5) parents (again) who pay attention to their kids schoolwork. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times "I don't want a president who is friends with France or Germany" Me Paraphrasing Kerry: I've spoken to many world leaders - they all look at me and say, you've got to win. I just can't tell you who they are. Me
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1.) Severly reducing or eliminating government bureaucracy. 2.) Severly reducing or eliminating the politically correct BS in schools. 3.) Allowing teachers and administrators more latitude in punishing/removing disruptive students. 4a.) Holding teachers and administrators accountable for poor student achievement. 4b.) Pay bonuses for exceptional student achievement. 5a.) Hold administrators responsible for budget overruns. 5b.) Pay bonuses for budget efficiency. At a college/university level I would totally eliminate athletic scholarships and reduce nearly all sports to intramural. Let the NBA and NFL fund their own minor leagues. Just a few thoughts, some of which need "fleshing out" before implementation. "The gay marriage thing scared me, but that's only because I thought at first it was mandatory." Jon Stewart