Analyzing Kerry's acceptance speech...
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Well, you're just plain wrong. A trully capitalisitc society offers the poor the best chance to improve their lot in life. All government help provides them with is more of the same poverty. But of course that doesn't bother you any, as long as there are plenty of poor you can pander to you will be more easily able to force your socialist, secularist agenda down the throats of Americans. You don't want to help the poor, you want to keep them dependent and use them for promulgating your completely unrelated agenda. The Democrats have never helped the poor, and never will. If they did, they would no longer have a base of power to stand on. The U.S. was established to be a place where indiviudals are afforded the opportunity to stand on their own two feet and live their own lives in their own way. Anyone who cannot accept that simple social contract should not live here. That is what we are and have always been. I am not in anything togther with anyone outside of my own immediate family. I don't need you or anyone else, and I only need the government to kill terrorist for me so that I don't have to waste my own money on ammo. That is how I was raised by my father who was raised the same way by his for many, many generations - that is the America we bought into when we fought and won the Revolution. The principles and values established than are universal and eternal. That is the American I intend to leave to my children. I do not intend to let it become a Euro-esk social welfare state dedicated to the brotherhood of humanity or other Marxist nonsense. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
Stan Shannon wrote: The U.S. was established to be a place where indiviudals are afforded the opportunity to stand on their own two feet and live their own lives in their own way. Anyone who cannot accept that simple social contract should not live here. That is what we are and have always been. Stan, you're are so far up yourself I'm surprised you can see daylight! The US was established because a bunch of rich men objected to taxation without representation. They fought a war against the taxing authority and dressed it up with a whole lot of bullshit about freedom. Obviously you swallow that 228 year old propoganda whole and unsalted. I'm sorry to hear you have so little intellectual backbone (but not surprised given your posting history). How can you have so little regard for your own history? For the fact that joining the United States is a one way street? Once you're in that's it baby - forget any idea of future independence. Contrast that with Singapore which was once a member state of Malaysia but chose independence. I don't recall reading news about a civil war in Malaysia in 1965. How can you ignore the fact that much of the history of the US consists of slim majorities lynching those who disagree? How it must gall you to know that it's just over a year until I can become a US Citizen - holding opinions about what the US could be so diametrically opposed to yours. I don't buy your bullshit. Rob Manderson I'm working on a version for Visual Lisp++
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i thought his speech was pretty good. i'd never seen much of him speaking before - i'd only heard the GOP spin that he was wooden and fake and condescending. i didn't see any of that. he seemed sincere and honest and even likeable. he's certainly not as much of a speaker as the other three stars (Clinton, Obama and Edwards), but few are. most importantly, he gave me a reason to vote for him other than Anyone-But-Bush . Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: only heard the GOP spin that he was wooden and fake and condescending. Isn't that what they used to say about the last guy who won the election too? :')
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Stan Shannon wrote: There is nothing in the constitution that makes any school any where in the country an extension of the federal government, so obviously any prayer said in a public school cannot possible violate the wording of the first amendment. :confused: does that mean that, because the EPA isn't defined in the Constitution, that nothing it does can violate any amendment? can the EPA put you in jail indefinitely without a trial, quarter soldiers in your house and subject you to cruel and unusual punishment? Software | Cleek
I suppose I'm equally confused. The EPA is a federal agency, established by an act of congress, congress is clearly subject to constitutional restraints, so obviously is the behavior of the EPA, an extension of congress. The public school system became a component of the federal state merely because it receives federal funds. Why do they recieve federal funds? Because the government took that money away from people, gave it to the schools and thereby took effective control of those schools away from the very people who were forced to give the money in the first place. Neat plan. That clearly demonstrates the government's anti-Jeffersonian abuse of power, of confiscating the wealth of the people, and using that very wealth as a means of regulating and coercing behavior from them via intrinsically locally controlled institutions such as the public school system. Such abuse of power by the government far exceeds such issues as the silly 'patriot act'. And the fact that those on the left seem to believe that such abuse is a good thing makes all of your protests against Bush, et al, ring very hollow indeed. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
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Stan Shannon wrote: The U.S. was established to be a place where indiviudals are afforded the opportunity to stand on their own two feet and live their own lives in their own way. Anyone who cannot accept that simple social contract should not live here. That is what we are and have always been. Stan, you're are so far up yourself I'm surprised you can see daylight! The US was established because a bunch of rich men objected to taxation without representation. They fought a war against the taxing authority and dressed it up with a whole lot of bullshit about freedom. Obviously you swallow that 228 year old propoganda whole and unsalted. I'm sorry to hear you have so little intellectual backbone (but not surprised given your posting history). How can you have so little regard for your own history? For the fact that joining the United States is a one way street? Once you're in that's it baby - forget any idea of future independence. Contrast that with Singapore which was once a member state of Malaysia but chose independence. I don't recall reading news about a civil war in Malaysia in 1965. How can you ignore the fact that much of the history of the US consists of slim majorities lynching those who disagree? How it must gall you to know that it's just over a year until I can become a US Citizen - holding opinions about what the US could be so diametrically opposed to yours. I don't buy your bullshit. Rob Manderson I'm working on a version for Visual Lisp++
So my family's 300+ years of building America, of fighting, and bleeding and dieing to perfect the insitutions of democracy and liberty taken for granted by those of you skulking into the country today to enjoy those principles, are really a shameful history of greed and inhumanity? And that we sad heirs of those American traditions need to be led into the light by those of you who have decided to grace us with your liberating presence? Is that kind of your point? No thanks, I think I'll stay committed to my mythology if your's is the only alternative. I'm confident of my mythology because I learned it at the feet of those who had lived it. Unadulterated by Hollywood or centers of higher education. It was the truth they had carried with them across the frontier for all those generations. They knew who and what they were. I'm pretty sure they knew their reality by living it more than you do by reading some revisionist history book by some Marxist historian somewhere. Rob Manderson wrote: How can you ignore the fact that much of the history of the US consists of slim majorities lynching those who disagree? Ignore it? Hell, in my family we used to set around laughing our asses off about it. We kicked butt, didn't we? I make no excuses for what my people were. They were tough, mean, brutal SOBs who's history is one long bloody smear across this continent. They neither asked for or gave quarter to those they encountered. They were exactly the kind of people it took to build this nation. They lived their lives as individuals and as free men. I'm proud as hell to share their blood. Go peddle your secularist moral agenda somewhere else. Rob Manderson wrote: How it must gall you to know that it's just over a year until I can become a US Citizen - holding opinions about what the US could be so diametrically opposed to yours. I don't buy your bull****. It doesn't gall me at all. You're simply ignorant, I can forgive you for that. I'm sure that otherwise you are an honest, decent, hard working and welcome addition to the American family. The only thing I worry about is that you, unlike previous generations of emigrants who came here intent on beating those Americans already here at their own game, come at a time when there is a general disreaged and disrespect for the principles that made this country great not only around the world, but here as well. It is really very sad. But being wrong, you will lose, and the o
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All I have to say is what a great fuckin' post! And one more thing: Stan, Mike G, Jason H, all you nutcases, fuck you!! Why don't you go move to greenland and start your "every man for himself" tribe or some stupid bullshit! You don't need the gub'ment, you don't need the rest of us lib'ruls gettin' in your way! You can take care of yourselves right? :laugh: Real Americans can't stand assholes like you, and that's the reason you guys hate real Americans so much! I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for
Wanna fight about it? :laugh: Actually, thinking about your post a bit more - I think I do wanna fight about it. Greenland? Why don't you move to Greenland, commie? Hell, virtually every other country on this planet has almost exactly the kind of government you neo-Marxist want to turn the U.S. into. Why don't you just move to one of them? Why do you have such a problem with there being one country on this entire planet where people who believe as we do can exist in peace? Why is it so important for you to destroy the last political bastion not committed to the Marxist ideal? Every single drop of blood shed in defense of this country since 1776 was shed in defense of the principles I believe in. Not a single drop of blood has ever been shed by an American in defense of the principles you lefties want to establish here. This country was created specifically to be a place of independence and freedom from government where people can live their lives in their own way, responsible for their own welfare and their own happiness without a caretaker government propping them up. You sad little asshole, you pathetic little cretin, you cowardly, helpless little child desperate for big daddy government to protect you and care for you. GO AWAY!!!!!! "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
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I suppose I'm equally confused. The EPA is a federal agency, established by an act of congress, congress is clearly subject to constitutional restraints, so obviously is the behavior of the EPA, an extension of congress. The public school system became a component of the federal state merely because it receives federal funds. Why do they recieve federal funds? Because the government took that money away from people, gave it to the schools and thereby took effective control of those schools away from the very people who were forced to give the money in the first place. Neat plan. That clearly demonstrates the government's anti-Jeffersonian abuse of power, of confiscating the wealth of the people, and using that very wealth as a means of regulating and coercing behavior from them via intrinsically locally controlled institutions such as the public school system. Such abuse of power by the government far exceeds such issues as the silly 'patriot act'. And the fact that those on the left seem to believe that such abuse is a good thing makes all of your protests against Bush, et al, ring very hollow indeed. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
Stan Shannon wrote: That clearly demonstrates the government's anti-Jeffersonian abuse of power, of confiscating the wealth of the people, and using that very wealth as a means of regulating and coercing behavior from them via intrinsically locally controlled institutions such as the public school system. Agree. Now how many will not look at the concepts you state and only look an instance, find an exception and say it does not apply? I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
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Stan Shannon wrote: The U.S. was established to be a place where indiviudals are afforded the opportunity to stand on their own two feet and live their own lives in their own way. Anyone who cannot accept that simple social contract should not live here. That is what we are and have always been. Stan, you're are so far up yourself I'm surprised you can see daylight! The US was established because a bunch of rich men objected to taxation without representation. They fought a war against the taxing authority and dressed it up with a whole lot of bullshit about freedom. Obviously you swallow that 228 year old propoganda whole and unsalted. I'm sorry to hear you have so little intellectual backbone (but not surprised given your posting history). How can you have so little regard for your own history? For the fact that joining the United States is a one way street? Once you're in that's it baby - forget any idea of future independence. Contrast that with Singapore which was once a member state of Malaysia but chose independence. I don't recall reading news about a civil war in Malaysia in 1965. How can you ignore the fact that much of the history of the US consists of slim majorities lynching those who disagree? How it must gall you to know that it's just over a year until I can become a US Citizen - holding opinions about what the US could be so diametrically opposed to yours. I don't buy your bullshit. Rob Manderson I'm working on a version for Visual Lisp++
Rob Manderson wrote: The US was established because a bunch of rich men objected to taxation without representation. They fought a war against the taxing authority and dressed it up with a whole lot of bull**** about freedom. Rob, Go back to your history books and look up how much taxation there really was. Not much! I.E. it was not about money and a bunch of rich men objecting to it being taken away. Ref: http://www.archives.gov/national\_archives\_experience/charters/declaration\_transcript.html We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, .... I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.
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I suppose I'm equally confused. The EPA is a federal agency, established by an act of congress, congress is clearly subject to constitutional restraints, so obviously is the behavior of the EPA, an extension of congress. The public school system became a component of the federal state merely because it receives federal funds. Why do they recieve federal funds? Because the government took that money away from people, gave it to the schools and thereby took effective control of those schools away from the very people who were forced to give the money in the first place. Neat plan. That clearly demonstrates the government's anti-Jeffersonian abuse of power, of confiscating the wealth of the people, and using that very wealth as a means of regulating and coercing behavior from them via intrinsically locally controlled institutions such as the public school system. Such abuse of power by the government far exceeds such issues as the silly 'patriot act'. And the fact that those on the left seem to believe that such abuse is a good thing makes all of your protests against Bush, et al, ring very hollow indeed. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
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Chris Losinger wrote: All your protests that "The Government did X", "The Government did Y" are apparently based on the idea that the government exists independently of the people of the US. Sadly for your argument, that is not the case. Well, no. I am forced to concur that the government does derive its power to govern from those it governs. It must reflect the will of the people and if that will is to be cared for by a care taker government than I lose. But if I am to lose I intend to go down fighting with whatever means I can avail myself of (in the arena of ideas, of course). Anyway, its Saturday, I'm giving it up for today... "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
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Wanna fight about it? :laugh: Actually, thinking about your post a bit more - I think I do wanna fight about it. Greenland? Why don't you move to Greenland, commie? Hell, virtually every other country on this planet has almost exactly the kind of government you neo-Marxist want to turn the U.S. into. Why don't you just move to one of them? Why do you have such a problem with there being one country on this entire planet where people who believe as we do can exist in peace? Why is it so important for you to destroy the last political bastion not committed to the Marxist ideal? Every single drop of blood shed in defense of this country since 1776 was shed in defense of the principles I believe in. Not a single drop of blood has ever been shed by an American in defense of the principles you lefties want to establish here. This country was created specifically to be a place of independence and freedom from government where people can live their lives in their own way, responsible for their own welfare and their own happiness without a caretaker government propping them up. You sad little asshole, you pathetic little cretin, you cowardly, helpless little child desperate for big daddy government to protect you and care for you. GO AWAY!!!!!! "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
Stan Shannon wrote: Actually, thinking about your post a bit more - I think I do wanna fight about it. Greenland? Why don't you move to Greenland, commie? First of all, you dolt, I'm not the one whining about the way the US is, you are. You're the one talking about "not being together with anyone except my family". So I said why the hell don't all you guys who think like that go somewhere else and try it? DUH! Anyways, I'm not a "neo-Marxist" or whatever, but I can tell you, the things Bush is doing to America aren't even respectable by conservatives! "big daddy government"? Holy shit Stan, NewsFlash! GWB turned the government into the biggest fucking thing it's ever been!! OH MY GOD, HE'S A NEO-MARXIST COMMIE!!!!!!!!! Stan Shannon wrote: This country was created specifically to be a place of independence and freedom from government where people can live their lives in their own way, responsible for their own welfare and their own happiness without a caretaker government propping them up. Why don't you go yell at the christian right that we want to be free, ya dumbass! I hate big government, especially the kind Bush brought us. Why don't you go protest him making it any bigger? Or fouling up our sacred constitution with this marriage bullshit? It seems to me that you don't even really give a shit about big government, as long as it's big for the right reasons, and the only toes it doesn't step on are yours. I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for - U2
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Stan Shannon wrote: Actually, thinking about your post a bit more - I think I do wanna fight about it. Greenland? Why don't you move to Greenland, commie? First of all, you dolt, I'm not the one whining about the way the US is, you are. You're the one talking about "not being together with anyone except my family". So I said why the hell don't all you guys who think like that go somewhere else and try it? DUH! Anyways, I'm not a "neo-Marxist" or whatever, but I can tell you, the things Bush is doing to America aren't even respectable by conservatives! "big daddy government"? Holy shit Stan, NewsFlash! GWB turned the government into the biggest fucking thing it's ever been!! OH MY GOD, HE'S A NEO-MARXIST COMMIE!!!!!!!!! Stan Shannon wrote: This country was created specifically to be a place of independence and freedom from government where people can live their lives in their own way, responsible for their own welfare and their own happiness without a caretaker government propping them up. Why don't you go yell at the christian right that we want to be free, ya dumbass! I hate big government, especially the kind Bush brought us. Why don't you go protest him making it any bigger? Or fouling up our sacred constitution with this marriage bullshit? It seems to me that you don't even really give a shit about big government, as long as it's big for the right reasons, and the only toes it doesn't step on are yours. I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for - U2
I'm not fan of Bush, and I don't like much of what he has done, but at least he has an excuse. All you moore-on leftist have is an agenda. and as far as the "Christian Right" goes, they are but a pale reflection of the Secularist's use of political power to achieve their moral objectives. Christianity has a much better record of political restraint in this country than secularism does. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
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I'm not fan of Bush, and I don't like much of what he has done, but at least he has an excuse. All you moore-on leftist have is an agenda. and as far as the "Christian Right" goes, they are but a pale reflection of the Secularist's use of political power to achieve their moral objectives. Christianity has a much better record of political restraint in this country than secularism does. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
Stan Shannon wrote: I'm not fan of Bush, and I don't like much of what he has done, but at least he has an excuse. All you moore-on leftist have is an agenda. Oook. So what is his "excuse"? What excuses him from creating the biggest government ever and wasting billions of tax dollars in doing so? I'm really interested in hearing what it is. Also, why do us "moore-on" (clever !!) leftists have an agenda while the guys on the right automagically get "excuses"? This sounds like some strange logic Stanley. Stan Shannon wrote: and as far as the "Christian Right" goes, they are but a pale reflection of the Secularist's use of political power to achieve their moral objectives. Oh really? Let's see some examples. The "christian right" uses the full weight of their political power to push their own "moral objectives" and you fuckin' know they do. You're just pandering here. Stan Shannon wrote: Christianity has a much better record of political restraint in this country than secularism does. You gotta be joking here right? Oh boy that had me in stitches! I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for - U2