killer weed!
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PJ Arends wrote: simple question PJ. Have you ever used Marijuana? Simple answer. No. Remember kids, as someone who has NEVER tried and/or used marijuana , PJ can assure you all that it has absolutly nothing to offer. Thats a mighty solid position you have there, lol. Legalize Marijuana
joshfl wrote: Remember kids, as someone who has NEVER tried and/or used marijuana , PJ can assure you all that it has absolutly nothing to offer. Remember kids, as someone who has NEVER shot himself in the face with a 12 ga. shotgun, Mike can assure you all that it has absolutely nothing to offer. :rolleyes: "The gay marriage thing scared me, but that's only because I thought at first it was mandatory." Jon Stewart
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PJ Arends wrote: simple question PJ. Have you ever used Marijuana? Simple answer. No. Remember kids, as someone who has NEVER tried and/or used marijuana , PJ can assure you all that it has absolutly nothing to offer. Thats a mighty solid position you have there, lol. Legalize Marijuana
Ok, then tell a poor old ignorant fool like myself what it has to offer. Maybe you, the wisest, most enlightened one among us, can finally answer my question of WHY?!? Maybe you can enlighten me as to all the great and good things that await those who partake in the weed, how smoking it will make ones life so much better, so much richer and more fulfilling. Tell me how doing drugs will make my business more successful, my family love me more, my friends think more highly of me. Tell me how it will make others take my opinions seriously. I want to know what it has to offer that is so far lacking in my life.
[
](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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Ok, then tell a poor old ignorant fool like myself what it has to offer. Maybe you, the wisest, most enlightened one among us, can finally answer my question of WHY?!? Maybe you can enlighten me as to all the great and good things that await those who partake in the weed, how smoking it will make ones life so much better, so much richer and more fulfilling. Tell me how doing drugs will make my business more successful, my family love me more, my friends think more highly of me. Tell me how it will make others take my opinions seriously. I want to know what it has to offer that is so far lacking in my life.
[
](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote: Ok, then tell a poor old ignorant fool like myself what it has to offer. Maybe you, the wisest, most enlightened one among us, can finally answer my question of WHY?!? Maybe you can enlighten me as to all the great and good things that await those who partake in the weed, how smoking it will make ones life so much better, so much richer and more fulfilling. Tell me how doing drugs will make my business more successful, my family love me more, my friends think more highly of me. Tell me how it will make others take my opinions seriously. I want to know what it has to offer that is so far lacking in my life. see my new topic. Legalize Marijuana
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joshfl wrote: Remember kids, as someone who has NEVER tried and/or used marijuana , PJ can assure you all that it has absolutly nothing to offer. Remember kids, as someone who has NEVER shot himself in the face with a 12 ga. shotgun, Mike can assure you all that it has absolutely nothing to offer. :rolleyes: "The gay marriage thing scared me, but that's only because I thought at first it was mandatory." Jon Stewart
:-D 5
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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joshfl wrote: Remember kids, as someone who has NEVER tried and/or used marijuana , PJ can assure you all that it has absolutly nothing to offer. Remember kids, as someone who has NEVER shot himself in the face with a 12 ga. shotgun, Mike can assure you all that it has absolutely nothing to offer. :rolleyes: "The gay marriage thing scared me, but that's only because I thought at first it was mandatory." Jon Stewart
Mike Mullikin wrote: Remember kids, as someone who has NEVER shot himself in the face with a 12 ga. shotgun, Mike can assure you all that it has absolutely nothing to offer. It does have something to offer to someone who is suicidal. ;) Besides, I don't think such an extreme example as yours applies to marijuana. Let's see, 0 , count them 0 deaths EVER recorded in the U.S. due to marijuana. I'm just guessing here, maybe 97% of all people shot in the face w/ a 12 gauge shotgun die instantaneously. Legalize Marijuana
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Remember kids, as someone who has NEVER shot himself in the face with a 12 ga. shotgun, Mike can assure you all that it has absolutely nothing to offer. It does have something to offer to someone who is suicidal. ;) Besides, I don't think such an extreme example as yours applies to marijuana. Let's see, 0 , count them 0 deaths EVER recorded in the U.S. due to marijuana. I'm just guessing here, maybe 97% of all people shot in the face w/ a 12 gauge shotgun die instantaneously. Legalize Marijuana
joshfl wrote: Let's see, 0 , count them 0 deaths EVER recorded in the U.S. due to marijuana. I disagree. There have been 10's of thousands of people over the years and across the world who have died in auto accidents who had alcohol AND marijuana in their systems. Who's to say which one made them drive 100 mph into the bridge embankment... while on the way to the Kwik-E-Mart... for Cheetos? ;P "The gay marriage thing scared me, but that's only because I thought at first it was mandatory." Jon Stewart
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Ok, then tell a poor old ignorant fool like myself what it has to offer. Maybe you, the wisest, most enlightened one among us, can finally answer my question of WHY?!? Maybe you can enlighten me as to all the great and good things that await those who partake in the weed, how smoking it will make ones life so much better, so much richer and more fulfilling. Tell me how doing drugs will make my business more successful, my family love me more, my friends think more highly of me. Tell me how it will make others take my opinions seriously. I want to know what it has to offer that is so far lacking in my life.
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote: then tell a poor old ignorant fool like myself what it has to offer. Maybe you, the wisest, most enlightened one Btw, You'll notice those are all your words not mine. I don't call you names. I did not say I'm the oracle of wisdom. I don't hate you or your lifestyle. More power to you for being who you are. I just get a tad bit annoyed when I want to live my life (quite peaceful and humble I might add) and people try to lock me up for it. I'm not trying to make you live my lifestyle or value system. I'm just requesting you not try to impose yours on me. Maybe you'll understand that when you read my thread. PJ Arends wrote: Maybe you can enlighten me as to all the great and good things that await those who partake in the weed, how smoking it will make ones life so much better, so much richer and more fulfilling. It could, it could not. Does it have to do all these things for you, in order for others to use it? PJ Arends wrote: Tell me how doing drugs will make my business more successful, my family love me more, my friends think more highly of me. It could, it could not. Does it have to do all these things for you, in order for others to use it? PJ Arends wrote: Tell me how it will make others take my opinions seriously. I want to know what it has to offer that is so far lacking in my life. Maybe it has alot to offer you. Maybe it has nothing. Your very defensive, but I don't recall anyone demanding that you use marijuana. Just a request for tolerance towards others who do. Legalize Marijuana
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joshfl wrote: Let's see, 0 , count them 0 deaths EVER recorded in the U.S. due to marijuana. I disagree. There have been 10's of thousands of people over the years and across the world who have died in auto accidents who had alcohol AND marijuana in their systems. Who's to say which one made them drive 100 mph into the bridge embankment... while on the way to the Kwik-E-Mart... for Cheetos? ;P "The gay marriage thing scared me, but that's only because I thought at first it was mandatory." Jon Stewart
Mike Mullikin wrote: I disagree. There have been 10's of thousands of people over the years and across the world who have died in auto accidents who had alcohol AND marijuana in their systems. Who's to say which one made them drive 100 mph into the bridge embankment... Thats right, whos to say? But regardless, does this somehow validate your extreme (ie, out of place, out of context, etc.) example previously? Lets go for arguments sake with 1/10th of 1 percent of all pot smokers die because of marijuana (directly or indirectly). (<- This is way too high but for arguments sake) I still maintain roughly 97% of all people shot in the face w/ a 12 gauge die instantly. Your previous example was absurd, and you still have not validated it. Legalize Marijuana
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PJ Arends wrote: then tell a poor old ignorant fool like myself what it has to offer. Maybe you, the wisest, most enlightened one Btw, You'll notice those are all your words not mine. I don't call you names. I did not say I'm the oracle of wisdom. I don't hate you or your lifestyle. More power to you for being who you are. I just get a tad bit annoyed when I want to live my life (quite peaceful and humble I might add) and people try to lock me up for it. I'm not trying to make you live my lifestyle or value system. I'm just requesting you not try to impose yours on me. Maybe you'll understand that when you read my thread. PJ Arends wrote: Maybe you can enlighten me as to all the great and good things that await those who partake in the weed, how smoking it will make ones life so much better, so much richer and more fulfilling. It could, it could not. Does it have to do all these things for you, in order for others to use it? PJ Arends wrote: Tell me how doing drugs will make my business more successful, my family love me more, my friends think more highly of me. It could, it could not. Does it have to do all these things for you, in order for others to use it? PJ Arends wrote: Tell me how it will make others take my opinions seriously. I want to know what it has to offer that is so far lacking in my life. Maybe it has alot to offer you. Maybe it has nothing. Your very defensive, but I don't recall anyone demanding that you use marijuana. Just a request for tolerance towards others who do. Legalize Marijuana
joshfl wrote: I just get a tad bit annoyed when I want to live my life... And I hate it when people tell me I can not have an opinion just because I have never tried something. I am sure there are many things that you consider to be wrong, even though you have never done them. Obviously pot is not one of them, and that is up to you. I will not, and have never, imposed my views on anyone. But at the same time I will voice my opinion on things that I feel strongly about. I will live my life according to my beliefs and convictions. I do not like drugs, I have seen how it has ruined peoples lives, and I am not afraid to say it. It may not have ruined your life yet (not saying it will), but if you break the law, you should be willing to face the consequences. If you don't like a law, work to get it changed. That is after all what a democracy is all about. But don't expect me to roll over and play dead if I don't agree with you.
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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Christian Graus wrote: The question is, how do you make this so ? That's where it gets tough. Here's my rationale for making/keeping it illegal: There are (IMHO) many, many young people who first try pot simply because it is illegal. The old "forbidden fruit" theory. Cigarettes and alcohol are illegal for minors but they're legal for adults so kids desire a "next step" that allows them to rebel. For most kids the first "next step" is all they need. They smoke a little pot through their teens and even early adulthood. They feel like they've rebeled against "the man", they mature and they move on. But what happens if pot were legal? I seriously fear that their first "next step" becomes cocaine, ecstasy or heroin. IMHO it's best to keep something "fairly" tame like pot as the first "next step". Yes - there are those who will get to the "hard stuff" no matter what is legal or illegal - I'm talking majorities and averages here. :) "The gay marriage thing scared me, but that's only because I thought at first it was mandatory." Jon Stewart
That's actually reasonably sensible, I have to admit :-) Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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So you are saying that you would have no problem with your daughter getting high on marijuana every night, slowly frying her brains to the point she can't function. Heck, why stop at pot, kids are doing crystal meth, so we might as well legalize that too. That way the goverment can make money off it, can set quality standards so that the meth is pure, not laced with crap. It only kills those dumb enough to over do it, but that is their problem, right? The same can be said for any drug. Legalize them all! It's the law that's the problem, not the drugs. We as a civil society have a responsibility to look after the weak among us. And it is better to stop them from hurting themselves in the first place, rather then picking them up after they have hit rock bottom. We will never have 100% success, but we still have to try. Laws are not there to stop people from having fun, they are there to stop people from hurting themselves and others. I would have thought that you, as a Christian, would realize that. Seems that common sense is not so common after all:sigh:
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote: slowly frying her brains to the point she can't function. I would dispute that smoking pot would guarentee that effect, but by the same token, my point ( which you obviously missed ) is that I believe in education, not legislation. I don't want my daughter to drink, smoke, do drugs, or have promiscous sex. My approach in every case is to teach her my reasons why I think these are bad things to do, and for her to then be constrained by her own decency, not by the whims of the law. PJ Arends wrote: That way the goverment can make money off it, can set quality standards so that the meth is pure, not laced with crap. Too bad you didn't use heroin as an example. Most of the problems associated with heroin, including the death of users, is the result of poor supply. Again, I don't endorse the use of heroin, but you need to realise that the poor/variable quality of drugs on the street is a major source of the problems caused to users. My point here is that the issue is more complex than the little world you see. PJ Arends wrote: It only kills those dumb enough to over do it, but that is their problem, right? Well, that is our government's attitude to smoking, so why be hypocritical ? PJ Arends wrote: Laws are not there to stop people from having fun, they are there to stop people from hurting themselves and others. I would have thought that you, as a Christian, would realize that. Actually, the point of Christianity is that people recieve the Holy Spirit from God and are thereby internally motivated to do good, instead of being constrained by laws ( which was the old testament way, and doomed to failure ). So when I say that I think it's better to educate than legislate, I'm showing that I am a Christian, rather than a Jew. :-) Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Christian Graus wrote: victimless crime I've never understood this "victimless crime" thing. Numerous studies have shown that the victims are brain damaged children born to alcoholic/drug abusing mothers, children alcoholic/drug abusive parents, not to mention the hundreds of pointless maimings and deaths of innocent people by drunk drivers and drug crazed people with weapons. Where, please tell me where, anyone can say taking drugs or abusing alcohol is victimless? Marc Microsoft MVP, Visual C# MyXaml MyXaml Blog Hunt The Wumpus RealDevs.Net
Hi Marc, good to see you :-) Marc Clifton wrote: Numerous studies have shown that the victims are brain damaged children born to alcoholic/drug abusing mothers Seeing as you brought up alcohol, you need then for your crusade to be prohibition. Yes, you're right. We don't do enough to protect children in these cases, IMO. We should do more in the case of alcohol abuse, because it's easier to police, given that alcohol is legal to buy. Marc Clifton wrote: children alcoholic/drug abusive parents You're creating a false link here - I'm not sure every abusive parent is an alcoholic or drug addict. Either way, the crime is child abuse. The drug most likely to exacerbate this is alcohol. Marc Clifton wrote: not to mention the hundreds of pointless maimings and deaths of innocent people by drunk drivers and drug crazed people with weapons. Once again, alcohol is the main problem here. It's the drug most likely to make people aggro. Marc Clifton wrote: Where, please tell me where, anyone can say taking drugs or abusing alcohol is victimless? Driving is now a capital crime. The people who cause hit and run accidents are all drivers, hence driving is the problem. See what I mean ? Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Mike Mullikin wrote: I disagree. There have been 10's of thousands of people over the years and across the world who have died in auto accidents who had alcohol AND marijuana in their systems. Who's to say which one made them drive 100 mph into the bridge embankment... Thats right, whos to say? But regardless, does this somehow validate your extreme (ie, out of place, out of context, etc.) example previously? Lets go for arguments sake with 1/10th of 1 percent of all pot smokers die because of marijuana (directly or indirectly). (<- This is way too high but for arguments sake) I still maintain roughly 97% of all people shot in the face w/ a 12 gauge die instantly. Your previous example was absurd, and you still have not validated it. Legalize Marijuana
joshfl wrote: Your previous example was absurd, and you still have not validated it. It wasn't meant to be a serious comparison. I used an extreme condition to point out that one does not have to experience something to know it's not healthy. You asked PJ if he had ever smoked pot. He said "No". You immediately discredited him and his opinion in turn. Get it?! It was also an attempt at humour. ;) "The gay marriage thing scared me, but that's only because I thought at first it was mandatory." Jon Stewart
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Chris Losinger wrote: because That stupid answer does not explain to me why any one wants to scrammble their brains. I know to many people who seemed to be reasonably intelligent when they were younger and now can't hold down a minimum skill job because their brains are all messed up. Their lives are totally ruined because of drug abuse. From what I have seen, absolutely no good comes from it, and a lot of bad. Drugs are a lose-lose situation. Until someone can give me a logical, well thought out reason why marijuana (or any other hallucinagenic(sp?) drug) is a good or neccesary thing I will continue to oppose them, and continue to vote for the political party that holds the same view. 1
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote: That stupid answer does not explain to me why any one wants to scrammble their brains. I know to many people who seemed to be reasonably intelligent when they were younger and now can't hold down a minimum skill job because their brains are all messed up. Their lives are totally ruined because of drug abuse. From what I have seen, absolutely no good comes from it, and a lot of bad. Drugs are a lose-lose situation BTW, I must combat this stereo-type of yours. I have been smoking on and off for 12 years. Since I was 12 years old. (Yes, it was very young to start, and my childhood is another story all together.) I was on my own at 16 (no it was not because of pot, although pot helped me get thru more than a few bad days ;) ) I'm 24 now. My job title is 'Project Director.' (I'm not that impressed as I am really not concerned w/ status, but other people are ;) ) I can code. I can build an accumulater out of relays. I am able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. I am nothing like the stereo-type you describe. Whats funny to me is I grew up around people who smoked pot my whole life. I do not know anyone who is the way you describe that has only smoked pot. (I've known some junkies like that, but they were far beyond weed.) With your admittal that you have never smoked pot before, and your negative stereo-typical views about the people smoking it, I really feel you do not have much experience with the drug or the culture to be making these kind of assertions. What is a shame is most the anti-drug zealots perspectives have been shaped by the same inexperienced hearsay as you are spitting out. I'm 24, I make 60K,live in a pish-posh neighborhood, and drive a new car ;) Oh yea, and I usually burn a doob before dinner when I get home. Is this the misery weed will bring me? Legalize Marijuana
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Christian Graus wrote: these laws do not reflect common sense is a reflection on politians who are scared to lose the votes of the uninformed. That is one argument that I really get sick of hearing. The notion that political success is predicated upon pandering to the politically "uninformed" (and therefore that it is in the vested interest of politicians to keep people "uninformed" so that they can be more easily controlled.) That is such an arrogant, elitist attitude. "Oh, if only everyone else were as smart as me, they would all vote the way I vote." What a pile of horse shit. First, I would argue that it is preferable to be uninformed than it is to be disinformed. Most people I know who consider themselves educated and therefore "informed" are more likely than not to have simply bought into one line or another of propaganda and are therefore disinformed and vote accordingly. The so-called "uninformed" (i.e., those not mindlessly accepting of the same propaganda as the disinformed) generally are those who depend on a broader range of life experiences than a single strain of disinformation to base their pollitical judgements on. Most drug related laws do not exist because of an uninformed rabble freightened into submission by pandering politicians. They exist because the typical voter wisely understands that no society is infinitely adaptable to every bad habit and vice that those most predisposed to reject prevailing social mores set around dreaming up. For better or worse, we expect a bit of restraint from those we share our civilization with and we expect our democratically elected officials to respect our concerns. "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." James Madison, "Father of the U.S. Constitution"
Stan Shannon wrote: The notion that political success is predicated upon pandering to the politically "uninformed" Not how I would have said it. US politics in particular seems to be geared towards one of two seperate agendas. Those agendas seem to rely more on emotion than fact. Stan Shannon wrote: "Oh, if only everyone else were as smart as me, they would all vote the way I vote." What a pile of horse sh*t. No, I didn't say that either. I simply said that on this one issue, there has been a lot of misinformation, there is a lot of hysteria, and there are a lot of people with strong views based on stereotypes that have little to no basis in fact. Stan Shannon wrote: First, I would argue that it is preferable to be uninformed than it is to be disinformed. I agree - my point was that most people are disinformed on this issue. Stan Shannon wrote: Most drug related laws do not exist because of an uninformed rabble freightened into submission by pandering politicians. Correct, they exist largely as a result of accidents of history. Otherwise tobacco, which has a huge cost to our society, would be out the door faster than alcohol. Given alcohol's obviously harmful effects, it stands to reason that prohibition would work, right ? It wouldn't result in criminals making lots of money and police tied down in trying to catch them ? I really don't care if drugs are legalised or not, I just wish that one way or the other, kids today were armed with sensible information so they can make sensible choices. 'Drugs are bad, run and hide' does not constitute information, sensible or otherwise. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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joshfl wrote: I just get a tad bit annoyed when I want to live my life... And I hate it when people tell me I can not have an opinion just because I have never tried something. I am sure there are many things that you consider to be wrong, even though you have never done them. Obviously pot is not one of them, and that is up to you. I will not, and have never, imposed my views on anyone. But at the same time I will voice my opinion on things that I feel strongly about. I will live my life according to my beliefs and convictions. I do not like drugs, I have seen how it has ruined peoples lives, and I am not afraid to say it. It may not have ruined your life yet (not saying it will), but if you break the law, you should be willing to face the consequences. If you don't like a law, work to get it changed. That is after all what a democracy is all about. But don't expect me to roll over and play dead if I don't agree with you.
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote: And I hate it when people tell me I can not have an opinion just because I have never tried something. I didnt not say that. Your entitled to your opinion. But your opinion hurts people. And it creates unneccesary, and in my opinion unjustified (according to my interpretation of the founding documents for the Republic in which we live) limit on our freedoms. Its the exact same thing as racism. Your punishing the group for the stereotypical minority element within the group. Your opinion at the end of the day incarcerates people. People like me who would do you no harm. PJ Arends wrote: will not, and have never, imposed my views on anyone 795,000 people arrested last year because of you and the rest of the majorities 'opinion.' that you are not imposing on anyone. PJ Arends wrote: If you don't like a law, work to get it changed. Tell that to Rosa Parks. This countries freedoms were built from people just like her with a backbone to stand up for whats right. If a law is unjust, a just man belongs in jail. We dont wait around for someone to fix it for us. PJ Arends wrote: That is after all what a democracy is all about. We are not a democracy. We were established as a constitutional republic with a democratic process of representation. Our founding fathers wrote something along the lines of democracy being the dictatorship of the majority and warned us against deteriorating into this mentality. We are failing to recognize what is happening before our very eyes. Look how you refer to our government. It disgusts me. PJ Arends wrote: But don't expect me to roll over and play dead if I don't agree with you. I dont , I just ask you to consider whos harming who here w/ their opinion? Legalize Marijuana
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PJ Arends wrote: slowly frying her brains to the point she can't function. I would dispute that smoking pot would guarentee that effect, but by the same token, my point ( which you obviously missed ) is that I believe in education, not legislation. I don't want my daughter to drink, smoke, do drugs, or have promiscous sex. My approach in every case is to teach her my reasons why I think these are bad things to do, and for her to then be constrained by her own decency, not by the whims of the law. PJ Arends wrote: That way the goverment can make money off it, can set quality standards so that the meth is pure, not laced with crap. Too bad you didn't use heroin as an example. Most of the problems associated with heroin, including the death of users, is the result of poor supply. Again, I don't endorse the use of heroin, but you need to realise that the poor/variable quality of drugs on the street is a major source of the problems caused to users. My point here is that the issue is more complex than the little world you see. PJ Arends wrote: It only kills those dumb enough to over do it, but that is their problem, right? Well, that is our government's attitude to smoking, so why be hypocritical ? PJ Arends wrote: Laws are not there to stop people from having fun, they are there to stop people from hurting themselves and others. I would have thought that you, as a Christian, would realize that. Actually, the point of Christianity is that people recieve the Holy Spirit from God and are thereby internally motivated to do good, instead of being constrained by laws ( which was the old testament way, and doomed to failure ). So when I say that I think it's better to educate than legislate, I'm showing that I am a Christian, rather than a Jew. :-) Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Christian Graus wrote: my point ( which you obviously missed ) is that I believe in education, not legislation Yes I can see your point. I also believe that education is the best way to prevent many of the harmful behaviours we all see in society every day. But I also believe that legislation is needed to catch those that either ignore their education or never got it in the first place. Christian Graus wrote: My point here is that the issue is more complex than the little world you see. I do see how complex the issue is. And it will not be solved by throwing out any laws that are aimed at trying to solve it. Laws are only a part of the solution, a part that I believe to be essential. Christian Graus wrote: So when I say that I think it's better to educate than legislate, I'm showing that I am a Christian, rather than a Jew. Even Christians have laws (Mark 12:29-31). But you are right, it is by the power of the Spirit that we are led to do what is right. and before anybody gets their crap all tied up in a knot, even non-Christians can do good and right things, it is not the exclusive domain of Christians
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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Christian Graus wrote: my point ( which you obviously missed ) is that I believe in education, not legislation Yes I can see your point. I also believe that education is the best way to prevent many of the harmful behaviours we all see in society every day. But I also believe that legislation is needed to catch those that either ignore their education or never got it in the first place. Christian Graus wrote: My point here is that the issue is more complex than the little world you see. I do see how complex the issue is. And it will not be solved by throwing out any laws that are aimed at trying to solve it. Laws are only a part of the solution, a part that I believe to be essential. Christian Graus wrote: So when I say that I think it's better to educate than legislate, I'm showing that I am a Christian, rather than a Jew. Even Christians have laws (Mark 12:29-31). But you are right, it is by the power of the Spirit that we are led to do what is right. and before anybody gets their crap all tied up in a knot, even non-Christians can do good and right things, it is not the exclusive domain of Christians
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
PJ Arends wrote: But I also believe that legislation is needed to catch those that either ignore their education or never got it in the first place. So you are wanting to make alcohol illegal then ? PJ Arends wrote: Even Christians have laws (Mark 12:29-31). Gee, I'd have said these were required attitudes. But of course, freedom from law is not freedom to sin, it's freedom from being constrained by legal ideas, because we are liberated into a knowledge of why we do what is right, and wanting to do it. And that's really my point - a hypocritical society legalises alcohol and tobacco, but not other, less harmful drugs. Either way, people will do what their moral compass allows, and too little work goes into giving people that view of what is good for them, and society. As you say, even non-Christians can be good people, but unfortunately, it's becoming less and less fashionable to even accept that there is a such a thing. Both the home and the school are failing IMO, because kids are by and large being taught that nothing is their fault, they have no responsibility and therefore no culpability. This has happened for so long that it is endemic - the parents have been raised that way, and see no other way to raise their kids, and would object if the schools taught otherwise. This is, of course, a gross generalisation. One can only generalise when talking of society as a whole. But if dope were legalised, then society would be forced to educate it's members, as we are now forced to educate in regards to tobacco. Smoking is dying out, not because it's illegal, but because it's stupid, and the government has enough money from the sale of tobacco to pay for the advertising and other material to make people aware of that fact. As less people smoke, less money comes in, but less is also needed, the problem has been solved. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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PJ Arends wrote: And I hate it when people tell me I can not have an opinion just because I have never tried something. I didnt not say that. Your entitled to your opinion. But your opinion hurts people. And it creates unneccesary, and in my opinion unjustified (according to my interpretation of the founding documents for the Republic in which we live) limit on our freedoms. Its the exact same thing as racism. Your punishing the group for the stereotypical minority element within the group. Your opinion at the end of the day incarcerates people. People like me who would do you no harm. PJ Arends wrote: will not, and have never, imposed my views on anyone 795,000 people arrested last year because of you and the rest of the majorities 'opinion.' that you are not imposing on anyone. PJ Arends wrote: If you don't like a law, work to get it changed. Tell that to Rosa Parks. This countries freedoms were built from people just like her with a backbone to stand up for whats right. If a law is unjust, a just man belongs in jail. We dont wait around for someone to fix it for us. PJ Arends wrote: That is after all what a democracy is all about. We are not a democracy. We were established as a constitutional republic with a democratic process of representation. Our founding fathers wrote something along the lines of democracy being the dictatorship of the majority and warned us against deteriorating into this mentality. We are failing to recognize what is happening before our very eyes. Look how you refer to our government. It disgusts me. PJ Arends wrote: But don't expect me to roll over and play dead if I don't agree with you. I dont , I just ask you to consider whos harming who here w/ their opinion? Legalize Marijuana
joshfl wrote: Its the exact same thing as racism Ok, my opinion of you just went down to zero. If you can not discuss a point without calling those who disagree with you a racist then I am going to just shake my head and walk away from this discussion. I am very disappointed that you had to stoop so low. I disagree with peoples actions, not who they are. 1
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](http://www.canucks.com)"You're obviously a superstar." - Christian Graus about me - 12 Feb '03 "Obviously ??? You're definitely a superstar!!!" mYkel - 21 Jun '04 Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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Is it possible to find now a stronger weed than some years ago? Yes, definitively. I've tasted things coming from Holland which were hallucinating (no pun intended :) ). The question is, is this weed more dangerous? Hum, I don't think so. Is whisky more dangerous than beer? Hard to say if you don't mention the associated quantity... Is weed harmless? No, of course. If it doesn't create any physical dependencies, it may "create" a psychological one (and IMO then weed isn't the main factor, somebody with such an addiction would have found another product if it wasn't weed). Moreover, some people are much more sensitive to THC, and may develop psychological failures, as paranoïa and schizophrenia. Sadly, because of the politization of the subject, it's hard to find a scientific, non partisan study on this. Nonetheless, I don't believe prohibition is the solution. Look at France, for example: we have the thougher laws against the use of cannabis in all Europe, and we have also the higher proportion of young people smoking marijuana...go figure! The product has side effects, but seems to me much less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco, both legal products. That's why I am for the legalization, that is the definition of a legal frame to the consumption of hemp, something different from depenalization. Young people must be protected, because they don't have experience enough to control the use of weed and its consequences. It would remove a lot of money from a criminal business, provide a new source of money for the government, and enable a control of the quality of the product (you can't imagine what you can find in a bar of cannabis :mad: )
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KaЯl wrote: Moreover, some people are much more sensitive to THC *ding ding ding ding* And I am the winner on that subject. :-D I can't understand how people actually enjoy that buzz! It's like being in a carousel that's spinning about as fast as light itself. And not to mention how fast my short term memory deteriorates when I've got THC in my blood. My memory shrinks into a 1 minute frame - I can't remember anything that happened 2 minutes earlier. Wine's my drug of choice. :cool: -- Denn du bist, was du isst! Und ihr wisst, was es ist! Es ist mein Teil...?