Is this offensive?
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When I'm writing a semi-formal document that could be read by people I don't know and that don't know me, will I make a bad impression if I use 'what the hell'? How does it compare to 'what the heck' on a, let's say, 1-10 scale of offensiveness if 1 is as neutral as 'table' and 10 is as offensive as, eh, let's say the most offensive word you know ;) ?
Its not that it is offensive, its that there is NEVER any need for either phase. The phase is so overused that as a swear word it is meaningless, and as a sentence it has no logical meaning. Re-write you life so you don't need it. After 10 years of this, if something really terribal happens, using that phase once will get people to stop and stare (if they know you), maybe even think. Today it doesn't fit that bill. At once time it was offensive, and useful when you wanted to offend someone. Now its just a waste of 11 letters, and about 3cm of space.
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It isn't offensive to me, but then I'm very broadminded. :-D Personally, I'd never use anything like 'what the hell' or "what the heck" in a document. It just doesn't seem professional to me. The context of the statement is important and without knowing how you are going to use the phrase, it is hard to judge whether others would find it offensive. If in doubt, leave it out. Michael CP Blog [^]
I hate the word broadminded and open-minded because most people don't know what the words really mean. :) If it offends me, does that mean I am not broadminded? Of course not. People confuse the tolerance of an idea with the acceptance of an idea. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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Its not that it is offensive, its that there is NEVER any need for either phase. The phase is so overused that as a swear word it is meaningless, and as a sentence it has no logical meaning. Re-write you life so you don't need it. After 10 years of this, if something really terribal happens, using that phase once will get people to stop and stare (if they know you), maybe even think. Today it doesn't fit that bill. At once time it was offensive, and useful when you wanted to offend someone. Now its just a waste of 11 letters, and about 3cm of space.
Henry miller wrote: Re-write you life so you don't need it. I agree. I don't swear much but a few years back I was in a meeting with the sales director of my company and two other developers. We were all trying to be diplomatic about expectations and he was trying to push that such-and-such a feature shouldn't take so long (all the usual kind of arguments with sales people). Anyway after about 2 hours I finally lost it, when he tried to tell us how to estimate software, and I said "Look, you're talking shit". The room went silent for what seemed like minutes and everyone stared at me. I think it was the first time I'd ever sworn in a business meeting. And, boy, did it have a big impact - we quickly managed to reach an amicable agreement that we were both happy with, the timescales were right and the features were prioritised properly.
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell Not getting the response you want from a question asked in an online forum: How to Ask Questions the Smart Way!
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leave them both out; more so if it's a semi-formal document. it's spoken language, not written language. It's not offensive, but it's not professional either.
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
just a thought , why do we have rules for spoken language and for written language? (i mean different for them) why does it hurt so much in some peoples eyes/head when reading a text that is not correct according to "written language" rules? even if the information in the document is very good and easy to understand , some people will still go "oohh he did not follow the rules of written language and even though i understand every single word of this , its still bad .. BAAAD!" i mean its not like driving on the wrong side of the road where you can get people killed or so.. or is it just some way to show how good you are , like having a really expensive car //Roger
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Henry miller wrote: Re-write you life so you don't need it. I agree. I don't swear much but a few years back I was in a meeting with the sales director of my company and two other developers. We were all trying to be diplomatic about expectations and he was trying to push that such-and-such a feature shouldn't take so long (all the usual kind of arguments with sales people). Anyway after about 2 hours I finally lost it, when he tried to tell us how to estimate software, and I said "Look, you're talking shit". The room went silent for what seemed like minutes and everyone stared at me. I think it was the first time I'd ever sworn in a business meeting. And, boy, did it have a big impact - we quickly managed to reach an amicable agreement that we were both happy with, the timescales were right and the features were prioritised properly.
"If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him, for an investment in knowledge pays the best interest." -- Joseph E. O'Donnell Not getting the response you want from a question asked in an online forum: How to Ask Questions the Smart Way!
There are times when the shock value of cursing is useful, but in general it is poor form in a business setting. Besides, overuse will rob the technique of its power to shock. As I once heard this principle expressed, "Take not the Lord's Name in vain; wait for a moment when it will have the desired effect.";) "My kid was Inmate of the Month at Adobe Mountain Juvenile Corrections Center" - Bumper Sticker in Bullhead City
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just a thought , why do we have rules for spoken language and for written language? (i mean different for them) why does it hurt so much in some peoples eyes/head when reading a text that is not correct according to "written language" rules? even if the information in the document is very good and easy to understand , some people will still go "oohh he did not follow the rules of written language and even though i understand every single word of this , its still bad .. BAAAD!" i mean its not like driving on the wrong side of the road where you can get people killed or so.. or is it just some way to show how good you are , like having a really expensive car //Roger
Roger, I would think written language needs different rules because it is a fundamentally different form of communication. When speaking to someone, at least half of the communication comes from body language, social context, etc. For example, if you say "What the hell?" to someone in conversation, in most cases you already know if it is appropriate or not. And if it turns out it isn't appropriate, you will probably see that in their immediate facial reaction. If you see that they are offended, you can apologize, gloss it over, engage them in a discussion about it, or, well, ignore it and let them be offended. You don't have that luxury in written communication. Your reader doesn't see you, hear you, etc. Even if your reader already knows you, the immediacy of your words can counterbalance their prior knowledge. And they can project all sorts of thoughts on to you. Internet message board flamewars are a case in point. They are generally started due to misunderstandings, the most prevalent of which is that of degree. After participating in many political arguments on the Internet, I gradually came to realize that both sides tend to project a great deal of extra-argument frustration on the other side. For example, when I argue for gay rights on the Internet, I most often run into people who say, "I'm cool with gays, BUT...." To me, that "BUT" speaks volumes, and makes me angry. Involuntarily, a picture of the writer forms in my mind: a thoughtless, inconsistent, mentally sloppy American voter who is keeping our country from moving forward... blah blah blah. Ooh, that pisses me off! So I let him have it. Seeing my argument, the opponent thinks I'm a card carrying Communist who is starting us on a slippery slope that will end with people marrying their horses... And so the argument begins. Reflecting on that, I realize that I know many people who hold the same opinions as the guy I just lambasted, but talking to them in person I realize that they aren't mean--they're just normal, honest people who are trying their best to find their path through a strange and paradoxical world. Yes, they hold opinions that frustrate me, but I know they aren't evil. I suppose that when you're arguing with someone in writing you're really arguing with your id. Similarly, if you write "What the hell?" in a memo, there could be a reader who sees you as flippant because they think of that as "loose language". There could be a religious reader who thinks you are sacriligious. You never know. An extr
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When I'm writing a semi-formal document that could be read by people I don't know and that don't know me, will I make a bad impression if I use 'what the hell'? How does it compare to 'what the heck' on a, let's say, 1-10 scale of offensiveness if 1 is as neutral as 'table' and 10 is as offensive as, eh, let's say the most offensive word you know ;) ?
Offensive, no. Proper and professional, also no. The use of profanity, even mild forms of it, marks you as a semi-literate, unprofessional ninny who is incapable of expressing his thoughts in an educated manner. In the long run, even if your audience does not find it offensive, it will leave the recipients with an impression of you that you really don't want them to have. In situations where the discussion has already degraded to the point of flinging curses, refraining from joining the fray creates an image of wisdom and restraint, enhancing your position among peers. Like it or not, the reality is that people, especially professionals, subtly adjust their impressions of coworkers using such clues, and stooping to this sort of communication will have undesirable long-term results. "My kid was Inmate of the Month at Adobe Mountain Juvenile Corrections Center" - Bumper Sticker in Bullhead City
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just a thought , why do we have rules for spoken language and for written language? (i mean different for them) why does it hurt so much in some peoples eyes/head when reading a text that is not correct according to "written language" rules? even if the information in the document is very good and easy to understand , some people will still go "oohh he did not follow the rules of written language and even though i understand every single word of this , its still bad .. BAAAD!" i mean its not like driving on the wrong side of the road where you can get people killed or so.. or is it just some way to show how good you are , like having a really expensive car //Roger
Roger J wrote: even if the information in the document is very good and easy to understand This is the problem: spoken language is optimized for real-time conversations. Many things are allowable or even encouraged because of this. Repetition, slang, cussing... these can be used effectively in a conversation, as we tend to automatically tailor our language to be appropriate for the people we talk to. When writing, however, we often cannot know who will be reading it, and so risk making our words harder to understand by using a casual form of the language - what if the reader is from a different background, unfamiliar with certain colloquial expressions? Also, while a listener can interpret some phrases by tone of voice or facial expression, the reader has none of these - is "what the hell" a sign of the writer's anger? Frustration? Indifference? Context can be used, but if too much of the text is open to interpretation in this way, it can be an unpleasant and error-prone process for the reader. It's not about arbitrary rules, enforced just for the hell of it. ;)
You**'re one microscopic cog** in his catastrophic plan... -
I hate the word broadminded and open-minded because most people don't know what the words really mean. :) If it offends me, does that mean I am not broadminded? Of course not. People confuse the tolerance of an idea with the acceptance of an idea. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: hate the word broadminded and open-minded because most people don't know what the words really mean. I used to have an open mind, but my brains kept falling out. :) Aaron Eldreth TheCollective4.com My Articles I hereby boycott this poll. Really.... - Leppie
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When I'm writing a semi-formal document that could be read by people I don't know and that don't know me, will I make a bad impression if I use 'what the hell'? How does it compare to 'what the heck' on a, let's say, 1-10 scale of offensiveness if 1 is as neutral as 'table' and 10 is as offensive as, eh, let's say the most offensive word you know ;) ?
Leave out everthing that might even remotely be conisdered profanity. I personally don't find heck or hell offensive, and yet there are many people who do. If you don't know your audience, keep it formal and professional. My two cents. Aaron Eldreth TheCollective4.com My Articles I hereby boycott this poll. Really.... - Leppie
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Roger J wrote: even if the information in the document is very good and easy to understand This is the problem: spoken language is optimized for real-time conversations. Many things are allowable or even encouraged because of this. Repetition, slang, cussing... these can be used effectively in a conversation, as we tend to automatically tailor our language to be appropriate for the people we talk to. When writing, however, we often cannot know who will be reading it, and so risk making our words harder to understand by using a casual form of the language - what if the reader is from a different background, unfamiliar with certain colloquial expressions? Also, while a listener can interpret some phrases by tone of voice or facial expression, the reader has none of these - is "what the hell" a sign of the writer's anger? Frustration? Indifference? Context can be used, but if too much of the text is open to interpretation in this way, it can be an unpleasant and error-prone process for the reader. It's not about arbitrary rules, enforced just for the hell of it. ;)
You**'re one microscopic cog** in his catastrophic plan...Shog9 wrote: hell :omg: You wrote hell! :omg: -- ...Coca Cola, sometimes war...
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When I'm writing a semi-formal document that could be read by people I don't know and that don't know me, will I make a bad impression if I use 'what the hell'? How does it compare to 'what the heck' on a, let's say, 1-10 scale of offensiveness if 1 is as neutral as 'table' and 10 is as offensive as, eh, let's say the most offensive word you know ;) ?
I agree, not professional! A few days ago, I was in Staples and was looking at some device (which I cannot remember at the moment). On the details, it has some speed rating mentioned and in had this next to the speed rating: (And that is very, very fast) It struck me as so unprofessional, that I had to show it to me wife that was next to me. It is natural enough, but not expected on a professional document. Just think, with all this feedback, you do not even need a poll on the subject :) Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com www.MyQuickPoll.com - 2004 Election poll is #33 www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com "We plan for the future, we learn from the past, we live life in the present!"
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Shog9 wrote: hell :omg: You wrote hell! :omg: -- ...Coca Cola, sometimes war...
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When I'm writing a semi-formal document that could be read by people I don't know and that don't know me, will I make a bad impression if I use 'what the hell'? How does it compare to 'what the heck' on a, let's say, 1-10 scale of offensiveness if 1 is as neutral as 'table' and 10 is as offensive as, eh, let's say the most offensive word you know ;) ?
If the document has any formalness to it at all, profanity just shows lack of integrity and immaturity. As an adult, you need to be able to converse without profanity. By resorting to profanity, you're apt to be taken less serious. Be professional, it'll be worth it.
"When I was born I was so surprised that I didn't talk for a year and a half." - Gracie Allen