more electronic voting

Chris Losinger

Issue: Manipulation technique found in the Diebold central tabulator -- 1,000 of these systems are in place, and they count up to two million votes at a time. By entering a 2-digit code in a hidden location, a second set of votes is created. This set of votes can be changed, so that it no longer matches the correct votes. The voting system will then read the totals from the bogus vote set. It takes only seconds to change the votes, and to date not a single location in the U.S. has implemented security measures to fully mitigate the risks. This program is not "stupidity" or sloppiness. It was designed and tested over a series of a dozen version adjustments.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/?q=node/view/78[^] you can't trust the machines. you can't trust the people who run the machines. edit: link appears to be dead. i'm not sure why... developing. Software | Cleek

Maximilien

2 digits code ... whhhoooaaa that's a secure system ....

Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad

Jeff Bogan

I've also heard that Diebold is trying to pass off the printout of the results as a "paper trail".

Daniel3000i

When I first heard about electronic voting I thought "finally". If a country like India can do it, why can't we? Well, from what I just read I would say someone is trying to pull the wool over the American peoples' eyes. I say they need redesigning, and the people who designed them in the first place need to shipped to some other country where their particular political talents could be put to greater use. Iran, China, North Korea, Libya, Sudan, etc would be better for fascists like these. Because ain't nobody that stupid. Daniel

Rob Graham

That does it. We should all go back to butterfly ballots. :wtf: Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely. - Vint Cerf

Chris Losinger

or at least those little Scan-Tron bubble sheets. Software | Cleek

Rob Graham

I got to see ther page you linked to and the assertions are quite disturbing, if true. when navigating to the second page, I got an "Account Suspended" page, and can no longer access the link at all. Frightening (and I am not normally prone to place much credence in conspiracy theories...). Has Diebold had them shut down already? Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely. - Vint Cerf

wrykyn

Daniel3000i wrote: If a country like India can do it, why can't we? Hey, what's with that ?! :~ We're no longer in the Stone Age. We have computers too. "One of the Georges," said Psmith, "I forget which, once said that a certain number of hours' sleep a day--I cannot recall for the moment how many--made a man something, which for the time being has slipped my memory."

Chris Losinger

hmm. interesting. i didn't notice before, but that link i posted was for blackboxvoting.org. the site that usually watches this stuff is blackboxvoting.com. i wonder if that link was a hoax. i'm trying to track down where i got that link from to see if anyone else knows anything about it. http://www.blackboxvoting.com/index.php[^] edit: hmmm. blackboxvoting.org is registered to one of the people from Blackboxvoting.com... maybe she forgot to pay the ISP bill, or went over the bandwidth limit ? :) Software | Cleek

JoeSox

Maximilien wrote: 2 digits code ... whhhoooaaa that's a secure system They wanted a code to represent humanity. 2 eyes 2 ears 2 hands 2 political parties Later, JoeSox "My fellow Americans, major combat operations in Iraq have ended." --GWB May 1, 2003 CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest

Richard Stringer

Chris Losinger wrote: you can't trust the machines. you can't trust the people who run the machines. Nor can you "trust" anything in your chicken little version of the world. I would suggest that you peruse the vote fraud habits of those great Democrats of the past: Mayor Richard J. Daley and Lyndon Johnson - whoee. Those boys had some kind of loyality - the dead were voting in record numbers. And as old Lyndon was fond of saying "Vote early and vote often". He won some counties by MORE than 100% of the voters. As fuel to the simmering pool of Democratic chest beating give this a read: http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110004320[^]. Enough of this drivel for today. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

Im SO there

Wow, another "but he did it too!!" GOPer! What a big f'in surprise. This LBJ thing seems to be one of your favorite talking points. How about instead of your usual Him Too crap, why don't you try addressing the point instead of changing the subject? I'd say it's because you have no counterpoints to make. So how about you give us all a break. If all you want to do is change the subject, start a new thread whining about LBJ, and show us your chicken little view of the world ya freakin' idiot. I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for - U2

Rob Graham

Richard Stringer wrote: Enough of this drivel for today. As someone who is generally on the opposite side of the political spectrum from Chris, I too worry about the possibility of undiscoverable fraud (that drivel you spoke of). The past incidents you cite have equal parallels on the right (I am sad to say), but at least they were discoverable fraud (one wonders why such fraudulent elections were never successfully challenged and overturned, though). Undiscoverable fraud through the manipulation of crap software with no means of verification is a whole different story IMO. And if I were planning to steal an election through such means, I would be visibly supportive of the party I planned to defraud, just to deflect suspicion. Politics aside, the last thing I want this year is a fraudulent election, or even the appearance of one. This whole Dibold business smacks of gross incompetence at the very least. What idiot would base a secure election system on WinCE and Microsoft Access for crying out loud. And I have to vote on the bloody things; my state went 100% Dibold since 2000. And the Scy of State can't seem to find the certification documents... Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely. - Vint Cerf

Rob Graham

Thak you for your contribution to a rational discussion of the issues. You make Richard look good.. Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely. - Vint Cerf

Im SO there

So, let me get this straight. 1. Richard doesn't address anything in Chris's post. 2. Richard personally insults Chris. 3. Richard goes off on a nice "Him too!" rant about LBJ. Where's the nice rational discussion? All I see is Richard foaming at the mouth about LBJ? Care to argue what in my post makes Richard look good? The part where I called him a "freakin' idiot"? I didn't see you respond to Richard saying that his post with the nice personal insult made Chris look good (though I admit, your post was pretty good other than that). I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for - U2

Richard Stringer

All I was trying to say - you poor degenerate son of an unwed mother and an unknown father - is that there has always been vote fraud - on a local and a national level - and there is little done about it. Now go back and sit on you hassock and start work on them there curds and whey because childern should be seen and not heard - and in your case I am not at all certain about you being seen. You may upset the dog. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

Rob Graham

You supplied little besides more invective, but based on Richard's reply, perhaps I spoke too soon.:rose: Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely. - Vint Cerf

Richard Stringer

I`m SO there wrote: 1. Richard doesn't address anything in Chris's post. The post was about vote fraud - right !!!!! I`m SO there wrote: 2. Richard personally insults Chris How ? I`m SO there wrote: 3. Richard goes off on a nice "Him too!" rant about LBJ. You forgot about Daley. I`m SO there wrote: Care to argue what in my post makes Richard look good? Looks are often overrated. My mom and dad made me look good. You are simply a counterpoint to the melody. I`m SO there wrote: I didn't see you respond to Richard saying that his post with the nice personal insult made Chris look good Look mommy he did it first :( :( I am very good at personal insults - like attack ads - they work. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

Im SO there

Richard Stringer wrote: you poor degenerate son of an unwed mother and an unknown father :laugh: Richard Stringer wrote: is that there has always been vote fraud - on a local and a national level - and there is little done about it. Not when it suits you I suppose. But could you picture if Diebold was supporting the Dems? You'd be in fits!! Anyways, thanks for staying on-topic this time :) Richard Stringer wrote: Now go back and sit on you hassock and start work on them there curds and whey because childern should be seen and not heard - and in your case I am not at all certain about you being seen. You may upset the dog. Wow, "abstract" really takes a whole new meaning here. Shure did wish I know'd what all them thar words meaned. :confused::confused: I still haven't found what I'm lookin' for - U2

Richard Stringer

Rob Graham wrote: You supplied little besides more invective, but based on Richard's reply, perhaps I spoke too soon. I was simply using the english language in a way which someone who's apparent lack of perception in debate would have to process on a cognitive level for some time to decide if he had been insulted or not. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)