Number theory & 12024562121
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So Colin is giving me his usual run around on Sonork and this time he is off on the number theory or magical number tangent. Now I don't even pretend to know or like numbers. In fact my Math skills are about as long as John's fuse. So anyway Colin said that 12024562121 is a number with "style". To me it is a random collection of meaningless numbers. In fact if that was my credit card number I might be happier as at least it means something. So does anyone have a clue what is special about 12024562121 and in general what do you think of numbers and number theory? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
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So Colin is giving me his usual run around on Sonork and this time he is off on the number theory or magical number tangent. Now I don't even pretend to know or like numbers. In fact my Math skills are about as long as John's fuse. So anyway Colin said that 12024562121 is a number with "style". To me it is a random collection of meaningless numbers. In fact if that was my credit card number I might be happier as at least it means something. So does anyone have a clue what is special about 12024562121 and in general what do you think of numbers and number theory? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
When you say 'number theory' do you mean 'playing with digits' or the real stuff (Fermat's last theorem, congruences, Diopantine equations, continued fractions etc) If you mean the latter then it's all a lot of fun. As to '12024562121' maybe Colin can tell us. cheers, Chris Maunder
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So Colin is giving me his usual run around on Sonork and this time he is off on the number theory or magical number tangent. Now I don't even pretend to know or like numbers. In fact my Math skills are about as long as John's fuse. So anyway Colin said that 12024562121 is a number with "style". To me it is a random collection of meaningless numbers. In fact if that was my credit card number I might be happier as at least it means something. So does anyone have a clue what is special about 12024562121 and in general what do you think of numbers and number theory? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
12024562121 Well, it doesn't seem special to me. Perhaps its a prime number. Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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When you say 'number theory' do you mean 'playing with digits' or the real stuff (Fermat's last theorem, congruences, Diopantine equations, continued fractions etc) If you mean the latter then it's all a lot of fun. As to '12024562121' maybe Colin can tell us. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: As to '12024562121' maybe Colin can tell us. Colin was being very feng shui with me and would not explain. He said it would take many a day to explain it to me even in lay mans terms. To me that means it is not stylish at all, but he still piqued my interest. Chris Maunder wrote: If you mean the latter then it's all a lot of fun. Aaaahh, and if you were a dentist you would say pulling teeth is fun too. Mathemeticians! What a strange bunch, thinking numbers are fun! phhff! ;P regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
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12024562121 Well, it doesn't seem special to me. Perhaps its a prime number. Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Perhaps its a prime number. Can someone please tell me why prime numbers are so "fascinating"? Yes I know what a prime number is but, at the chance of being booed out of CP, what is the point of them? Who cares if 12024562121 is a prime number. Does it mean anything beyond the fact that it is one? Are prime numbers used for a specific purpose e.g. computing the best way to make me rich or happy? Or are they simply amazing because they are prime numbers? Which is about as practical as an inflatable dart board, to me at least. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Perhaps its a prime number. Can someone please tell me why prime numbers are so "fascinating"? Yes I know what a prime number is but, at the chance of being booed out of CP, what is the point of them? Who cares if 12024562121 is a prime number. Does it mean anything beyond the fact that it is one? Are prime numbers used for a specific purpose e.g. computing the best way to make me rich or happy? Or are they simply amazing because they are prime numbers? Which is about as practical as an inflatable dart board, to me at least. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
Paul, this link might help de-mystify prime numbers; on the other hand it might just be further proof that mathematicians are a weird lot :-) http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/largest.html Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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Paul, this link might help de-mystify prime numbers; on the other hand it might just be further proof that mathematicians are a weird lot :-) http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/largest.html Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: this link might help de-mystify prime numbers; on the other hand it might just be further proof that mathematicians are a weird lot thanks for the link. So what I could gather prime numbers are useful in crypto apps. If so then that is pretty useful, but why are primes useful in crypto and other numbers not so useful? i.e. why use a prime for crypto rather than a normal number? And don't worry, I already think mathematicians are a weird lot. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: this link might help de-mystify prime numbers; on the other hand it might just be further proof that mathematicians are a weird lot thanks for the link. So what I could gather prime numbers are useful in crypto apps. If so then that is pretty useful, but why are primes useful in crypto and other numbers not so useful? i.e. why use a prime for crypto rather than a normal number? And don't worry, I already think mathematicians are a weird lot. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
Dear Paul [non-mathematician] Well, my math is not great either, but in crpto the use of primes has something to do with work-divisibility. Lets assume there is an operation X. And we need to calculate 20X3. We can divide it into T1=5X4 and then T2=T1X3 If we had a prime instead of 20 that wouldn't have been possible. Maybe I am wrong. That's just my non-mathematical view of things. Nish [non-mathematician] Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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So Colin is giving me his usual run around on Sonork and this time he is off on the number theory or magical number tangent. Now I don't even pretend to know or like numbers. In fact my Math skills are about as long as John's fuse. So anyway Colin said that 12024562121 is a number with "style". To me it is a random collection of meaningless numbers. In fact if that was my credit card number I might be happier as at least it means something. So does anyone have a clue what is special about 12024562121 and in general what do you think of numbers and number theory? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
Personally, i can't say if a number has style or not, till i see it in binary. :cool: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234
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Personally, i can't say if a number has style or not, till i see it in binary. :cool: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234
12024562121 = 0x1011001100101110000100000111001001 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Perhaps its a prime number. Can someone please tell me why prime numbers are so "fascinating"? Yes I know what a prime number is but, at the chance of being booed out of CP, what is the point of them? Who cares if 12024562121 is a prime number. Does it mean anything beyond the fact that it is one? Are prime numbers used for a specific purpose e.g. computing the best way to make me rich or happy? Or are they simply amazing because they are prime numbers? Which is about as practical as an inflatable dart board, to me at least. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
Paul Watson wrote: ? Are prime numbers used for a specific purpose e.g. computing the best way to make me rich or happy? Well, for one they are largely used in cryptography. Paul Watson wrote: Or are they simply amazing because they are prime numbers? It's worth to point out that math and science does not have to be usefull. In the end you never know where the design or the math idea will end up. Math is simply a way to describe the world around. Math is using numbers to describe it. Physics uses math to express the theories and so is many other science branches. If you think the prime numbers are strange try to take your run against 11-dimentional world. Hell, try with 4-dimentional first to warm up :) And yet such an abstraction is susefull to explain the origin of the Universe, would you believe? Take another sample - complex numbers. Is there such a thing as a square root of -1 (minus one)? And yet a large portion, if not all, of electronics is build up using complex numbers equations. There are many examples of the stuff like that. What seems to be strange suddenly appears usefull. That is what we call a pure research - you never know what you gonna get.
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Perhaps its a prime number. Can someone please tell me why prime numbers are so "fascinating"? Yes I know what a prime number is but, at the chance of being booed out of CP, what is the point of them? Who cares if 12024562121 is a prime number. Does it mean anything beyond the fact that it is one? Are prime numbers used for a specific purpose e.g. computing the best way to make me rich or happy? Or are they simply amazing because they are prime numbers? Which is about as practical as an inflatable dart board, to me at least. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
Primes are good for Asymetric Cryptography and also for proving of Extraterestrial life. :-O - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Perhaps its a prime number. Can someone please tell me why prime numbers are so "fascinating"? Yes I know what a prime number is but, at the chance of being booed out of CP, what is the point of them? Who cares if 12024562121 is a prime number. Does it mean anything beyond the fact that it is one? Are prime numbers used for a specific purpose e.g. computing the best way to make me rich or happy? Or are they simply amazing because they are prime numbers? Which is about as practical as an inflatable dart board, to me at least. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
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12024562121 = 0x1011001100101110000100000111001001 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234
Kastellanos Nikos wrote: 0x1011001100101110000100000111001001 Oh man, that's stylish. Simon Hey, it looks like you're writing a letter! Sonork ID 100.10024
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12024562121 Well, it doesn't seem special to me. Perhaps its a prime number. Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Perhaps its a prime number. It's divisible by 11. Yuri
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12024562121 = 0x1011001100101110000100000111001001 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234
How about raw hex? 420665C20E480000 Or even base 5? 12045A2121 * * is that even remotely right? ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" - August Strindberg
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Perhaps its a prime number. Can someone please tell me why prime numbers are so "fascinating"? Yes I know what a prime number is but, at the chance of being booed out of CP, what is the point of them? Who cares if 12024562121 is a prime number. Does it mean anything beyond the fact that it is one? Are prime numbers used for a specific purpose e.g. computing the best way to make me rich or happy? Or are they simply amazing because they are prime numbers? Which is about as practical as an inflatable dart board, to me at least. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
Paul Watson wrote: Can someone please tell me why prime numbers are so "fascinating"? The fact that they are not divisible by any number than 1 or itself is and how this can be used to solve other problems (crypto comes to mind) is pretty amazing. One thing that I can't understand is why people are still chasing very large prime numbers. I mean, in algebra 101 I was taught how to prove that there is an infinite number of primes. The proof is very clear and has no logic traps. Then why are some mathematicians so eager to find bigger primes all the time? You can never go past infinity, so what's the point? It's scary when mathematicians break out in a big "YAAAAAHOOOOO!!!" whenever some large cluster crunch out a new "largest known mersienne prime".
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So Colin is giving me his usual run around on Sonork and this time he is off on the number theory or magical number tangent. Now I don't even pretend to know or like numbers. In fact my Math skills are about as long as John's fuse. So anyway Colin said that 12024562121 is a number with "style". To me it is a random collection of meaningless numbers. In fact if that was my credit card number I might be happier as at least it means something. So does anyone have a clue what is special about 12024562121 and in general what do you think of numbers and number theory? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
Over here in North America, that number could be a ..... PHONE NUMBER. Now I wonder just who would be answering if I dialed that. Anyways, like the song says, "Rickie don't lose that number, it's the only one you got". Chris
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Dear Paul [non-mathematician] Well, my math is not great either, but in crpto the use of primes has something to do with work-divisibility. Lets assume there is an operation X. And we need to calculate 20X3. We can divide it into T1=5X4 and then T2=T1X3 If we had a prime instead of 20 that wouldn't have been possible. Maybe I am wrong. That's just my non-mathematical view of things. Nish [non-mathematician] Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
(This is a very simplified version of why prime numbers are the way to go and it covers only asymmetric cryptography. Symmetric cryptography is a different animal if I'm not mistaken) Basically you want to hide the factors of a cryptographic key. If you can find a factor (keys used to produce the cipher) of a "cryptographic" number you have therefore divided the problem into a "solved" and a "smaller unsolved". Thus you don't want to give a potential cracker that kind of luxury, you wan't to make it as hard as possible for him/her. If you choose a prime number, then you cannot divide the problem so easily, you are forced to do a "brute force" crack, i.e. try all possible combinations. Of course, the real thing is a lot more complicated than what I just wrote, but in a very broad sense, this is the reason why prime numbers are nice. (Sidenote: Most cryptographic implementations does not necessarily use prime numbers. Since the numbers are so large, it would take ages to generate and/or verify a possible prime number. Therefore heuristic approaches are used in an iterative process. Most implementations are 99.999999999% accurate though)
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Paul Watson wrote: Can someone please tell me why prime numbers are so "fascinating"? The fact that they are not divisible by any number than 1 or itself is and how this can be used to solve other problems (crypto comes to mind) is pretty amazing. One thing that I can't understand is why people are still chasing very large prime numbers. I mean, in algebra 101 I was taught how to prove that there is an infinite number of primes. The proof is very clear and has no logic traps. Then why are some mathematicians so eager to find bigger primes all the time? You can never go past infinity, so what's the point? It's scary when mathematicians break out in a big "YAAAAAHOOOOO!!!" whenever some large cluster crunch out a new "largest known mersienne prime".
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: One thing that I can't understand is why people are still chasing very large prime numbers. Because they can Jörgen, because they can. When the dude who conquered everest was asked why, he said "because it is there". Same thing. Though I think the math guys are way lamer running after large primes than the guy who conquered mt everest. I wonder if they could put their number crunching to better use. Like helping out the cancer cure search or for SETI. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge