Atheism
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Now this can somtimes be a touchy subject, so lets remain civil shall we? I respect other people's beliefs but have no doubt that gods do not exist and humanity is the product of a godless evolution. And, I can say with certainity I know what its like to be dead. Just think about where "you" were the last time you were knocked unconscious for a surgery, or where "you" were before your birth. This is no different than death. And I admit, it is sometimes a scary thought believing this to be the truth. But, we cannot -- or should not -- deny the validity of truth merely because that truth makes us uncomfortable. If we do, then we are only degressing back into a more primitive state. Something I think we all can agree might be bad.
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Now this can somtimes be a touchy subject, so lets remain civil shall we? I respect other people's beliefs but have no doubt that gods do not exist and humanity is the product of a godless evolution. And, I can say with certainity I know what its like to be dead. Just think about where "you" were the last time you were knocked unconscious for a surgery, or where "you" were before your birth. This is no different than death. And I admit, it is sometimes a scary thought believing this to be the truth. But, we cannot -- or should not -- deny the validity of truth merely because that truth makes us uncomfortable. If we do, then we are only degressing back into a more primitive state. Something I think we all can agree might be bad.
Sir Isaac Newton There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history. Albert Einstien When I see the glories of the cosmos I cannot help but believe that there is Divine Hand behind it all. Well I might argue against you, but those are two dead people, who I never argue with. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Colin is a big fan of William Goldberg and Frank Tipler and of course Billy Connerly
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Now this can somtimes be a touchy subject, so lets remain civil shall we? I respect other people's beliefs but have no doubt that gods do not exist and humanity is the product of a godless evolution. And, I can say with certainity I know what its like to be dead. Just think about where "you" were the last time you were knocked unconscious for a surgery, or where "you" were before your birth. This is no different than death. And I admit, it is sometimes a scary thought believing this to be the truth. But, we cannot -- or should not -- deny the validity of truth merely because that truth makes us uncomfortable. If we do, then we are only degressing back into a more primitive state. Something I think we all can agree might be bad.
gods do not exist and humanity is the product of a godless evolution- Now personally I'm neither an atheist nor a believer. But there is no doubt that we, with our present technology, do not know MANY things.(who are we? where do we come from? what are we doing here? are we going anywhere?). How does the brain really function? Does a 'soul' really exist in every being? What happends beyond the event horizon in a black hole? Maybe some cosmic force or energy created us....maybe what we call life is a mere freak accident. The right temperature, the right environment, and a strain of protozoa....or maybe a meteor from Mars. #define MOSTLY_LEAN_AND_MEAN
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Now this can somtimes be a touchy subject, so lets remain civil shall we? I respect other people's beliefs but have no doubt that gods do not exist and humanity is the product of a godless evolution. And, I can say with certainity I know what its like to be dead. Just think about where "you" were the last time you were knocked unconscious for a surgery, or where "you" were before your birth. This is no different than death. And I admit, it is sometimes a scary thought believing this to be the truth. But, we cannot -- or should not -- deny the validity of truth merely because that truth makes us uncomfortable. If we do, then we are only degressing back into a more primitive state. Something I think we all can agree might be bad.
Adam Arthur wrote: it is sometimes a scary thought believing this to be the truth. But, we cannot -- or should not -- deny the validity of truth merely because that truth makes us uncomfortable. Agreed. But just because you believe this to be true doesn't make it true for everybody else. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your beliefs (you most certainly are). /ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
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Sir Isaac Newton There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history. Albert Einstien When I see the glories of the cosmos I cannot help but believe that there is Divine Hand behind it all. Well I might argue against you, but those are two dead people, who I never argue with. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Colin is a big fan of William Goldberg and Frank Tipler and of course Billy Connerly
Albert Einstein And being religious was my worst mistake God dammit why did i not see the quantum mechanical beauty too? or something like that :) --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots ... and the linux zealots still aren't being sterilized"
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Now this can somtimes be a touchy subject, so lets remain civil shall we? I respect other people's beliefs but have no doubt that gods do not exist and humanity is the product of a godless evolution. And, I can say with certainity I know what its like to be dead. Just think about where "you" were the last time you were knocked unconscious for a surgery, or where "you" were before your birth. This is no different than death. And I admit, it is sometimes a scary thought believing this to be the truth. But, we cannot -- or should not -- deny the validity of truth merely because that truth makes us uncomfortable. If we do, then we are only degressing back into a more primitive state. Something I think we all can agree might be bad.
I am always amazed at this kind of reasoning, and I wonder how anyone who could be so utterly illogical could possible program for a living. I am far closer to being an athiest than I am to being a fundamentalist, yet even I understand that nothing in science precludes the existence of God or in anyway supports the tenants of atheism. Does science make certain specific teachings of certain specific religions difficult to accept, well certainly. But, you do not need a course in philosophy to appreciate that *something* is responsible for everything which exists. "Everything" would include not merely the matter and the energy and the space, and the time within which we are emersed, but our consciousness as well. Is consciousness merely a by product of the elctrochemical processes of neural tissue? How is it that the universe manages to be aware of itself through us? We do not as yet have a clue as to what that something is. What ever it is, it may well yet turn out to be something much closer to being a religious person's concept of "God" than of an athiest's concept of random physical processes. All I do know is that mortal man has no power to declare things to be moral or immoral. If there is no God then there is no morality. If there is no God than nothing Hitler or bin Ladin or (fill in the blank) did was evil or wrong. They were just people expressing their own personel codes of moral behavior in thier own personel ways, no more wrong or right than what any of the rest of us chose to do. The current generation believes that it can reinvent morality, that we can restructure what constitutes evil and what constitutes good. Well, we can't. There is no possible way that you can build a civilization of a foundation of atheism. Wisdom from the Hippie Ages: "When you find yourself at last, Then you need not use the looking glass". Bubble Puppy.
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I am always amazed at this kind of reasoning, and I wonder how anyone who could be so utterly illogical could possible program for a living. I am far closer to being an athiest than I am to being a fundamentalist, yet even I understand that nothing in science precludes the existence of God or in anyway supports the tenants of atheism. Does science make certain specific teachings of certain specific religions difficult to accept, well certainly. But, you do not need a course in philosophy to appreciate that *something* is responsible for everything which exists. "Everything" would include not merely the matter and the energy and the space, and the time within which we are emersed, but our consciousness as well. Is consciousness merely a by product of the elctrochemical processes of neural tissue? How is it that the universe manages to be aware of itself through us? We do not as yet have a clue as to what that something is. What ever it is, it may well yet turn out to be something much closer to being a religious person's concept of "God" than of an athiest's concept of random physical processes. All I do know is that mortal man has no power to declare things to be moral or immoral. If there is no God then there is no morality. If there is no God than nothing Hitler or bin Ladin or (fill in the blank) did was evil or wrong. They were just people expressing their own personel codes of moral behavior in thier own personel ways, no more wrong or right than what any of the rest of us chose to do. The current generation believes that it can reinvent morality, that we can restructure what constitutes evil and what constitutes good. Well, we can't. There is no possible way that you can build a civilization of a foundation of atheism. Wisdom from the Hippie Ages: "When you find yourself at last, Then you need not use the looking glass". Bubble Puppy.
Stan Shannon wrote: There is no possible way that you can build a civilization of a foundation of atheism. I think the USSR tried that and Failed. I must agree with all your points though Stan, What, really amazes me with atheists is that they try, to justify there reasonongs with logic, and continually fail to come up with a better explanation, than the existance of a supreme being. I really think atheists have not sat down and the thought all the issues through. Also I'd like to see a correlative survey done on "atheism" and Linux usage. As many of the arguements seem very similar. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Colin is a big fan of William Goldberg and Frank Tipler and of course Billy Connerly
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Albert Einstein And being religious was my worst mistake God dammit why did i not see the quantum mechanical beauty too? or something like that :) --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots ... and the linux zealots still aren't being sterilized"
Yes, Prof Einstein, was a very quotable personage, What I continually find astounding is the best Physists and Mathmaticians seem to be believers in a universal creator. Inclusive of Stephen Hawking who said something like, when physicists find the theory he and his colleagues are looking for - a so-called "theory of everything" - then they will have seen into "the mind of God". or something like that :-) Hey it is interesting how Lauren is an anagram of neural. :-) Makes you think doesn't it ! :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Colin is a big fan of William Goldberg and Frank Tipler and of course Billy Connerly
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Now this can somtimes be a touchy subject, so lets remain civil shall we? I respect other people's beliefs but have no doubt that gods do not exist and humanity is the product of a godless evolution. And, I can say with certainity I know what its like to be dead. Just think about where "you" were the last time you were knocked unconscious for a surgery, or where "you" were before your birth. This is no different than death. And I admit, it is sometimes a scary thought believing this to be the truth. But, we cannot -- or should not -- deny the validity of truth merely because that truth makes us uncomfortable. If we do, then we are only degressing back into a more primitive state. Something I think we all can agree might be bad.
Adam Arthur wrote: Now this can somtimes be a touchy subject, so lets remain civil shall we? But of course... :-) One has to wonder what brought it up - did you have to sit through a vomitous Xmas special because there is nothing good on TV ? Anyhow, deciding that there is no God because you cannot see any evidence of His existance is highly illogical, I could by the same token deny the existance of your sister/wife/cat. The two questions this raises are: 1/ Does absence of proof mean proof of absence, and 2/ Does my lack of belief stop any of these entities ( assuming at least one DOES exist ) from existing ? Luckily, despite the teachings of the religious world at large, God offers rigidly defined and tangible proof to the individual, which means that absence of proof simply means you've been looking in the wrong place. Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Now this can somtimes be a touchy subject, so lets remain civil shall we? I respect other people's beliefs but have no doubt that gods do not exist and humanity is the product of a godless evolution. And, I can say with certainity I know what its like to be dead. Just think about where "you" were the last time you were knocked unconscious for a surgery, or where "you" were before your birth. This is no different than death. And I admit, it is sometimes a scary thought believing this to be the truth. But, we cannot -- or should not -- deny the validity of truth merely because that truth makes us uncomfortable. If we do, then we are only degressing back into a more primitive state. Something I think we all can agree might be bad.
Adam Arthur wrote: I respect other people's beliefs but have no doubt that gods do not exist and humanity is the product of a godless evolution :suss: Adam Arthur wrote: And, I can say with certainity I know what its like to be dead :suss: :suss: Adam Arthur wrote: it is sometimes a scary thought believing this to be the truth God be with you, my son. I vote pro religion :cool:
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Adam Arthur wrote: Now this can somtimes be a touchy subject, so lets remain civil shall we? But of course... :-) One has to wonder what brought it up - did you have to sit through a vomitous Xmas special because there is nothing good on TV ? Anyhow, deciding that there is no God because you cannot see any evidence of His existance is highly illogical, I could by the same token deny the existance of your sister/wife/cat. The two questions this raises are: 1/ Does absence of proof mean proof of absence, and 2/ Does my lack of belief stop any of these entities ( assuming at least one DOES exist ) from existing ? Luckily, despite the teachings of the religious world at large, God offers rigidly defined and tangible proof to the individual, which means that absence of proof simply means you've been looking in the wrong place. Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
****Christian Graus wrote: deciding that there is no God because you cannot see any evidence of His existance is highly illogical Now replace 'god' with 'unicorn', and read that again. We would be insane -- quite literally -- if we didn't require evidence of the existance of something before believing in it. ****Christian Graus wrote: Luckily, despite the teachings of the religious world at large, God offers rigidly defined and tangible proof to the individual, which means that absence of proof simply means you've been looking in the wrong place. Basically you're saying, "If you search for something hard enough, you will find it." "Am I talking too fast, or are you just playing dumb? If you want I can write it down." -Jarvis Cocker/Pulp
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gods do not exist and humanity is the product of a godless evolution- Now personally I'm neither an atheist nor a believer. But there is no doubt that we, with our present technology, do not know MANY things.(who are we? where do we come from? what are we doing here? are we going anywhere?). How does the brain really function? Does a 'soul' really exist in every being? What happends beyond the event horizon in a black hole? Maybe some cosmic force or energy created us....maybe what we call life is a mere freak accident. The right temperature, the right environment, and a strain of protozoa....or maybe a meteor from Mars. #define MOSTLY_LEAN_AND_MEAN
Im still deciding what the truth is...I don't believe there is a god. I really think that the bible was created to set a moral order in society in those times. I mean you hear of all these miracles etc etc, why aren't we seeing them anymore? Well probably because science can explain the meaning of them right? I don't know, Im a lost little boy :) My girlfriend is in the same state of mind as I am, but she thinks that some parts of the bible are true, just exaggerated. Heh! The earth was created in 7 days the bible says....my science teacher says the earth was made over billions of years of crap in space morphing together etc etc etc etc etc...... What created the big bang tho? LOL Tis a confusing subject! Ashley Rowe www.settlers.net
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Albert Einstein And being religious was my worst mistake God dammit why did i not see the quantum mechanical beauty too? or something like that :) --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots ... and the linux zealots still aren't being sterilized"
No one knows whether there is a god or there are gods. No one has ever produced any reliable proof or evidence either. The only claimbelievers put forth is that they feel the world is too complicated to have been created without a god. They feel that something so complex needs god's hand. But funnily they forget that they are solving one complexity by creating another more complex complexity in god. :-) Funny huh? Since around 11-12 [when I started thinking about such things] I have been a confirmed atheist and all themore happy for it because I can see humanity as one entity. If I were a believer and a religious one then I'd have seen the world as hindus christians muslims and jews :-) But to be fair I accept that there is a one in a billion billion chances that a god might exist. But he might not be what people imagine him to be. maybe if god exists he/she is an evil god. that would be something huh. after jesus christ, mohammed, sai baba and all these other god-men we find that god exists as a sort of evil all-powerful barbarian, gosh!!!!!!! I'll stop now before I fill up the lounge. this is a topic on which I simply cannot stop talking. Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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No one knows whether there is a god or there are gods. No one has ever produced any reliable proof or evidence either. The only claimbelievers put forth is that they feel the world is too complicated to have been created without a god. They feel that something so complex needs god's hand. But funnily they forget that they are solving one complexity by creating another more complex complexity in god. :-) Funny huh? Since around 11-12 [when I started thinking about such things] I have been a confirmed atheist and all themore happy for it because I can see humanity as one entity. If I were a believer and a religious one then I'd have seen the world as hindus christians muslims and jews :-) But to be fair I accept that there is a one in a billion billion chances that a god might exist. But he might not be what people imagine him to be. maybe if god exists he/she is an evil god. that would be something huh. after jesus christ, mohammed, sai baba and all these other god-men we find that god exists as a sort of evil all-powerful barbarian, gosh!!!!!!! I'll stop now before I fill up the lounge. this is a topic on which I simply cannot stop talking. Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: No one knows whether there is a god or there are gods. No one is a lot of people Nish, how can you make presupmtions on peoples part you have never met ? Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: No one has ever produced any reliable proof or evidence either. Again you make the same presumption, Nish. Just because God or gods haven't communicated with you, doesn't rule out humanities entire population base. Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: The only claimbelievers put forth is that they feel the world is too complicated to have been created without a god. They feel that something so complex needs god's hand. But funnily they forget that they are solving one complexity by creating another more complex complexity in god. Why should ours and the Cosmos existance be simple ? Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: But to be fair I accept that there is a one in a billion billion chances that a god might exist. But he might not be what people imagine him to be. So you are not a True atheist. :-) Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: maybe if god exists he/she is an evil god. that would be something huh. after jesus christ, mohammed, sai baba and all these other god-men we find that god exists as a sort of evil all-powerful barbarian, gosh!!!!!!! Again you elude to the plausable existance of God for you. Also you left a few big names out of the list of Gods messengers. :-) Why does God have to be either good or bad ? Why cannot God just exist without personality and taste. Please remember most of the God = good statements come from man himself rather than the word of God. The same arguement pertains to the minor bad = gods of Polytheistic faiths. Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: I'll stop now before I fill up the lounge. You are doing a good job of that already with your diary here in the Lounge of creating NT services. :-) Best wishes, :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Colin is a big fan of William Goldberg and Frank Tipler and of course Billy Connerly
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: No one knows whether there is a god or there are gods. No one is a lot of people Nish, how can you make presupmtions on peoples part you have never met ? Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: No one has ever produced any reliable proof or evidence either. Again you make the same presumption, Nish. Just because God or gods haven't communicated with you, doesn't rule out humanities entire population base. Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: The only claimbelievers put forth is that they feel the world is too complicated to have been created without a god. They feel that something so complex needs god's hand. But funnily they forget that they are solving one complexity by creating another more complex complexity in god. Why should ours and the Cosmos existance be simple ? Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: But to be fair I accept that there is a one in a billion billion chances that a god might exist. But he might not be what people imagine him to be. So you are not a True atheist. :-) Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: maybe if god exists he/she is an evil god. that would be something huh. after jesus christ, mohammed, sai baba and all these other god-men we find that god exists as a sort of evil all-powerful barbarian, gosh!!!!!!! Again you elude to the plausable existance of God for you. Also you left a few big names out of the list of Gods messengers. :-) Why does God have to be either good or bad ? Why cannot God just exist without personality and taste. Please remember most of the God = good statements come from man himself rather than the word of God. The same arguement pertains to the minor bad = gods of Polytheistic faiths. Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: I'll stop now before I fill up the lounge. You are doing a good job of that already with your diary here in the Lounge of creating NT services. :-) Best wishes, :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Colin is a big fan of William Goldberg and Frank Tipler and of course Billy Connerly
I've got a short break between meals today, so I had to check up on the Lounge. Low and behold, I find a religious debate going on. How could you? You bastards? And over Christmas? Why didn't someone phone me? :-) Colin Davies wrote: No one is a lot of people Nish, how can you make presupmtions on peoples part you have never met ? And likewise, how can you make presumtions. There has never been, and probably never can or will be, an accurate survey done of peoples religions. In the past there has simply not been the communication possiblities, and so entire groups of people were summed as Christian or Muslim, not based on thge majority views, but based on the views of those with the majoirty of influence and power. In other words those who spoke out for the silent, theoretically. Nowadays when we finally have the communication capabilities to perform such a survey, it would not be any more accurate. As it was mentioned in a previous thread, _many_people feel complelled to say they are Christian, etc, because of the perceived majority view. It's all about fitting in. Maybe if humanity can get over this social contorl of people such a survey could be performed accurately. Ignoring all that I have said in the past paragraph, I meet far more (read: far more) non-religious people in the real world then I do religious folk. If I am able to talk to these people they will usually say that they have nothing to do with religion, because - quite rightly - they know they cannot get anywhere with them. This may be a true indication of what has always been, or it may be a result of modern understanding of ourselves and our environment. To understand what they mean, would you try debating with a true Taliban man about the authenticity of his lifelong views? Religion is a socio-mental disorder. Colin Davies wrote: Why should ours and the Cosmos existance be simple ? I don't believe that was what Nish meant. It is obvious that the universe is not simple, indeed, if we can agree on anything it will be that. However, what I think Nish was saying was that this complexity does not mean that a divine being is involved. I.e. Paley's theory about the watch is irrelavent. Colin Davies wrote: So you are not a True atheist. He may be. Is he just saying that in order to "please" you, or or does he truely believe it? Sometimes that is a line I too will churn out to calm religious folk down en
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Now this can somtimes be a touchy subject, so lets remain civil shall we? I respect other people's beliefs but have no doubt that gods do not exist and humanity is the product of a godless evolution. And, I can say with certainity I know what its like to be dead. Just think about where "you" were the last time you were knocked unconscious for a surgery, or where "you" were before your birth. This is no different than death. And I admit, it is sometimes a scary thought believing this to be the truth. But, we cannot -- or should not -- deny the validity of truth merely because that truth makes us uncomfortable. If we do, then we are only degressing back into a more primitive state. Something I think we all can agree might be bad.
1. hard to be so sure god not exists - mininaly it strongly depends on his (or theirs) definition why to define it (him? her?) as a person (on the cloud)? (not only god doesn't exist but try to find serviceman during weekend - w. allen in my bad english) 2. yes, for me humanity has (and had) nothing to deal with religion too i see no coherence between anyones (or any common) religion (or atheism) and his goodness beeing member of any general group not makes you better or wronger and noone is good or wrong only btw. in my philosophy of goodness no reason for praying you do goodness or not, no words can change it but i can accept its meaning for human psychology t!
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I've got a short break between meals today, so I had to check up on the Lounge. Low and behold, I find a religious debate going on. How could you? You bastards? And over Christmas? Why didn't someone phone me? :-) Colin Davies wrote: No one is a lot of people Nish, how can you make presupmtions on peoples part you have never met ? And likewise, how can you make presumtions. There has never been, and probably never can or will be, an accurate survey done of peoples religions. In the past there has simply not been the communication possiblities, and so entire groups of people were summed as Christian or Muslim, not based on thge majority views, but based on the views of those with the majoirty of influence and power. In other words those who spoke out for the silent, theoretically. Nowadays when we finally have the communication capabilities to perform such a survey, it would not be any more accurate. As it was mentioned in a previous thread, _many_people feel complelled to say they are Christian, etc, because of the perceived majority view. It's all about fitting in. Maybe if humanity can get over this social contorl of people such a survey could be performed accurately. Ignoring all that I have said in the past paragraph, I meet far more (read: far more) non-religious people in the real world then I do religious folk. If I am able to talk to these people they will usually say that they have nothing to do with religion, because - quite rightly - they know they cannot get anywhere with them. This may be a true indication of what has always been, or it may be a result of modern understanding of ourselves and our environment. To understand what they mean, would you try debating with a true Taliban man about the authenticity of his lifelong views? Religion is a socio-mental disorder. Colin Davies wrote: Why should ours and the Cosmos existance be simple ? I don't believe that was what Nish meant. It is obvious that the universe is not simple, indeed, if we can agree on anything it will be that. However, what I think Nish was saying was that this complexity does not mean that a divine being is involved. I.e. Paley's theory about the watch is irrelavent. Colin Davies wrote: So you are not a True atheist. He may be. Is he just saying that in order to "please" you, or or does he truely believe it? Sometimes that is a line I too will churn out to calm religious folk down en
David Wulff wrote: You religious folk like it so plain and boring don't you. I'm not religeous in my faith David, but I do have faith and belief. David Wulff wrote: That is so very, very true. Most mainstream religions teach that man is equal under the eyes of god, and yet if they do not follow your religion they are condemed to hell for eternity for rejecting him, and you have an eternal duty to convert them. Regardless of your individual take on this point, you cannot deny the very reasoning is seriously floored. Either that or god lied when he was dictating that part of bible to his followers. When I see a person in the street, I see a person, not a hindu; christian; muslim; or jew Most main stream religeons suck big time as they have been adapted by man to be commercial enterprises. Thus in the street I also see people instead of phisophical faith followers. Best wishes with the turkey. Ovewr here we have christmas ham rather than birds. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Colin is a big fan of William Goldberg and Frank Tipler and of course Billy Connerly
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David Wulff wrote: You religious folk like it so plain and boring don't you. I'm not religeous in my faith David, but I do have faith and belief. David Wulff wrote: That is so very, very true. Most mainstream religions teach that man is equal under the eyes of god, and yet if they do not follow your religion they are condemed to hell for eternity for rejecting him, and you have an eternal duty to convert them. Regardless of your individual take on this point, you cannot deny the very reasoning is seriously floored. Either that or god lied when he was dictating that part of bible to his followers. When I see a person in the street, I see a person, not a hindu; christian; muslim; or jew Most main stream religeons suck big time as they have been adapted by man to be commercial enterprises. Thus in the street I also see people instead of phisophical faith followers. Best wishes with the turkey. Ovewr here we have christmas ham rather than birds. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Colin is a big fan of William Goldberg and Frank Tipler and of course Billy Connerly
Colin Davies wrote: I'm not religeous in my faith David, but I do have faith and belief. I'll grant you that I wasn't obviously clear in that sentence, but I was referring to "you" as in "all" religios folk, not you personally. Colin Davies wrote: Best wishes with the turkey. Over here we have christmas ham rather than birds. Oh man - you poor thing! It would not be Christmas to me if there was no turkey. Roast turkey, roast potatoes, assorted veg, stuffing (a kind of soggy bread crumbs with sage mixture, but I don't have the turkey stuffed in the traditional sense, but rather serve the stuffing seperately so you get a chance to taste it), gravy, and lots and lots of unhealthy salt. Hmmmmmmmm. Pure heaven. ;) ________________ David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves" - August Strindberg
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1. hard to be so sure god not exists - mininaly it strongly depends on his (or theirs) definition why to define it (him? her?) as a person (on the cloud)? (not only god doesn't exist but try to find serviceman during weekend - w. allen in my bad english) 2. yes, for me humanity has (and had) nothing to deal with religion too i see no coherence between anyones (or any common) religion (or atheism) and his goodness beeing member of any general group not makes you better or wronger and noone is good or wrong only btw. in my philosophy of goodness no reason for praying you do goodness or not, no words can change it but i can accept its meaning for human psychology t!
and speaking true: if theoretialy someone with come with any final exists or doesn't exist it can change nothing in that what i normaly do t!
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Im still deciding what the truth is...I don't believe there is a god. I really think that the bible was created to set a moral order in society in those times. I mean you hear of all these miracles etc etc, why aren't we seeing them anymore? Well probably because science can explain the meaning of them right? I don't know, Im a lost little boy :) My girlfriend is in the same state of mind as I am, but she thinks that some parts of the bible are true, just exaggerated. Heh! The earth was created in 7 days the bible says....my science teacher says the earth was made over billions of years of crap in space morphing together etc etc etc etc etc...... What created the big bang tho? LOL Tis a confusing subject! Ashley Rowe www.settlers.net
Ashman wrote: The earth was created in 7 days the bible says....my science teacher says the earth was made over billions of years of crap in space morphing together etc etc etc etc Bible also says that God's 1000 days are men's one day and men's one day is God's 1000 days. 1000 is just a figure of speech and does not necessarily mean exactly 1000 days. It could be any number of days or years as God is timeless. As we know, early men were very limited in knowledge of earth and universe beyond and bible is written considering this fact. If bible started with the theory of relativity, those men and women would not have understood it anyway. Bible and theroy of evolution run parallel. My school mathematics says parellel lines meet at infinity. It doesn't say they never meet. I tend to believe there must be a point at which religion and science meet with perfect harmony. Assuming life is a coincidence, lets look at stereoscopic vision. Did billions of years of evolution made it possible for the living things to see in three dimensions? How did the evolution "knew" the physics that you need to have two view ports to see in depth? Trial and error? How did the bats knew about ultrasonics? How did the birds know about aerodynamics? I can't imagine such supposedly unintelligent creatures perfect such feats even if it took billions of years of trial and error. Too many coincidences? Ashman wrote: What created the big bang tho? Yeah. What was there before bing bang? At age 20, we need proof. At age 40 "We know" - An observation.