Fair Salary Range for a Entry Level Programmer in LA

[akak1997]

Hi all, I've been working at a pretty big company for a few months now and my performance review is coming up soon. I think it's a good time to ask for a raise (I didn't do a very good job negotiating my salary at my interview). The company I work for has an IT department of around 15-20 people, but only a few of them are developers, others are mostly help desk and networking. This company is fair big, with 1000+ employees all over the US. This was my first job right out of college (BS in Comp Sci). I wanna know what's salary range I should be looking at. here's some more info: I think I've been doing a good job with all my assignments. I've completed 2 projects assigned solely to me, without too much supervision (I basically have to figure out a lot by myself). My project manager is very please with my performance on these 2 projects. I've also helped out with some bug fixes and add-ons on our major app. I've always ask for more work once I'm done w/ whatever I've at hand (no idle time for me). I've never been late to work and work at least 8hrs a day, sometimes more even I don't get pay OT. (of coz I kinda make sure my boss know I work late, like send them an email(with time stamp) saying I'm done w/ the work or something right before I leave) I've done a lot of search on the internet to find out what I should expect, but mostly it's from Salary.com, and I doubt that it's very accurate (Programmer I makes 51k, median? that's a little high I think) Any comments are greatly appreciated. TIA

[Michael A Barnhart]

Salaries vary widely from area to area, as does cost of living etc... If this your review or the review feed back and raise notices? For many large companies they are months apart. You say a few months (is that 2 or 11?) then your raise was already predetermind to be typical and well, wait for next year. But listen to the feedback. As for time for asking, it has been my observations that you will only get a benefit for a short time. They will remember and then cut you short in following years. If you like your work and your manager is happy with you, then over a few years you should be fairly treated. In big companies a lot of politics happen and to be honest you can expect some bad years here and there. But they often have stability so that is a trade off. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of.

[Roger Wright]

I wouldn't rely on the so-called averages reported in various media salary guides. I've never met anyone who made as much as the "average" reported. Starting out with a low salary is a hit that will take time to recover from. I accepted an offer from my then-current employer when I graduated, not knowing that they were offerring my classmates who had never worked before significantly more. It took many years to catch up, but I did so eventually. Large companies are fairly rigid in their payroll practices. The Board of Directors sets a 'bogy' value - an average increase in payroll costs for the year. This value is handed down to upper management, who may or may not allocate it differently to various departments. At the end, your boss will be allowed a percent increase in total payroll budget for the year, and this pool of $ is all there is to work with. It's his/her job to assign $ raises to individuals, but keep the department average at the target value. In my career this 'bogy' value ranged from 0 to 3%; one year it was 5%! During that time I never saw less than a 6% increase myself, but it still took many years to recover from a bad job of negotiating an initial salary. Another interesting trend that I and my coworkers noticed was that the closer we came to $40K per annum, the smaller our raises got. It appeared to be a magic barrier within the company. For all of my peers - that is, the people I worked with most often - the only way around that barrier was to leave the company. All of us thrived and shot past that wall after we left, though none of us received a large increase from our new employers. It just broke the pattern some how. Good luck! "If it's Snowbird season, why can't we shoot them?" - Overheard in a bar in Bullhead City

[Michael Dunn]

*hand-wavy answer from an LA resident* $35-40K -- I'm Michael Dunn and I approve this post. Vote Trogdor in oh-four!

[realJSOP]

Most companies require that you be an employee for at least a year before getting a raise as a result of your performance review. Unless you're a veritable programming god, I would expect *nothing* in terms of a raise, and be pleasantly surprised if they give you anything at all. Next, I'd tread lightly if I were you in terms of requesting a raise (even after a year). Companies are more apt to out-source your position rather than deal with a whiney beginner looking for an early raise. If you hired on with the right company, they'll recognize your contributions and will reward you accordingly. However, it's best to keep track of your tasks (and whether or not they were delivered late/on-time) because in the heat of a review session, you and/or your supervisor may forget you worked on one thing or another, not to mention how it turned out. I've been programming for over 20 years, and I'm still not making all that much money (way beow $70k/year). A few weeks ago, I spent 35 hours over a weekend working on a "hot new feature" in our app. I got no comp time, and no overtime (I've NEVER been eligible for overtime because programmers are considered "exempt" employees), but the boss was happy and surprised that I did it. Advice: 1) Comform to company coding standards (regardless of how irritating they are. 2) Give the most accurate time estimates you can on every task, and ALWAYS deliver early or on-time. 3) If you're not happy where you are, look for another job. Don't leave someplace being thought of as a disgruntled employee - you may have to go back to work for the same folks, or even folks you worked with in the past. As far as item #3, it's just recently happened to me. I worked for a guy in 2000 as a contract programmer, and moved on to permenant work with another company at the end of the contract. In May, I got laid off as a result of budget cuts, and in June, I contacted my old boss to see if he had any work he could throw my way. He hired me as a permanent employee without even asking for a resume. Moral of the story - work hard, don't ask for shit you know you haven't earned, and don't burn your bridges. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of o

[Todd Smith]

I started out at 28K right out of college at a small company. That was barely enough to afford my own apt. I moved up to 35-40K within a year and was finally able to afford my own place (prices have gone nuts since). Then I moved up to 50-60K after several years. The only way to get a salary increase after that was to move on. That was 5 years ago tho. Todd Smith

[afinnell]

Wow I can't believe the low pay some people have reported here. I think that should be the next code project question. How much money do you make. Salary depends on your talent/exprience and a little politics. You didn't mention how much you make so it's hard to guess if you deserve more. And from my experience 51k median is right on the spot. I knew someone that got 55k right out of college with no experience. That being said the market has been shot to hell because everyone in their mother thinks they can develop software so the market has been diluted. Just last year I pulled in a little over 6 figures as a Principal Arch. Now this is not straight development though it involed customer relations, leading other engineers, and designing a system others would build. It all depends on how much money you can make for your employer. If all you are doing is fixing bugs and doing some coding don't expect much as the company probably deems you as a commodity. You need to be able to improve process, speak to customers and make them feel good, fix architecthure problems, or even better architect a better solution from the beginning. Here's some tips that can really help you excel. 1) Design by committee is a great way to make enemies and waste time. Make sure to avoid Design By Committees. This one is in the Anti-Pattern's book that should be sitting on your shelf. :) 2) Always have test code for the code you write 3) Always source control what you do 4) Document code based on what it does and why. Don't repeat int x = 1; // Sets x to 1. Rather say we need this value to accomplish XYZ. 5) Never ask for a raise unless you already have another job lined up. Managers normally feel it's a threat and they are too arogent and stubbern to be threatened by a developer even if that developer brings a lot to the company. 6) Write white papers/design documents describing what you designed and built. This makes managers and the like go estatic. They love a paper trail. It also helps you flush out your designs and makes them easier to be accepted by management. 7) Be careful to make sure you are recognized as the person that comes up with an idea but don't be obvious. Email is a good way to prove you designed something. If someone claims they came up with something make sure you already emailed your design document to the team so they know who to ask questions to (you being this case) 8) When talking to management always include your co-workers when talking about what you did. Things like 'We did this', '