New Sanctions Imposed
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All right I have to bring it up....... In light of the 21 Billion dollars [^]that Saddam got out of the last UN sanctions aimed at Iraq, how effective does anyone think this is going to be? http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/11/15/ivory.arms/index.html[^]. Of course not as many people stand to make as much money with the Ivory Coast cocoa eh?:~ Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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All right I have to bring it up....... In light of the 21 Billion dollars [^]that Saddam got out of the last UN sanctions aimed at Iraq, how effective does anyone think this is going to be? http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/11/15/ivory.arms/index.html[^]. Of course not as many people stand to make as much money with the Ivory Coast cocoa eh?:~ Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Bring what up? The elephant in the living room or the hypocrisy of Europeans who screamed bloody murder that we were killing innocent Iraqi children by those nasty damned old sanctions. And of course the UN head, old goofi, refuses to expose the corruption[^]. If this doesn't fuel the US movement out of the UN, nothing will, but it is damned well time to leave. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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All right I have to bring it up....... In light of the 21 Billion dollars [^]that Saddam got out of the last UN sanctions aimed at Iraq, how effective does anyone think this is going to be? http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/11/15/ivory.arms/index.html[^]. Of course not as many people stand to make as much money with the Ivory Coast cocoa eh?:~ Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Africa is always going to be violent and downtrodden. There is no solution here. The natives that have some education are going to leave for Western shores - so you are left with uneducated people with a medieval mentality armed with modern day weapons. I agree sanctions only hurt the average person in the country and generally the dictator survives. But the alternative is using force. Look at the genocide in Rwanda. That was real actual genocide. If the UN did nothing in that situation, it says that they are never going to risk Western lives for African conflicts. When Westerner are involved there is going to be overwhelming force to punish them and then they will pull out. The only solution left is to form an African peace corp with the power to invade countries to restore order. There would have to be checks and balances to make sure it was not corrupted. This would allow a local, less foreign solution to native African problems and would not risk Western lives.
Better to rule in Hell, than serve in Heaven Milton
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Bring what up? The elephant in the living room or the hypocrisy of Europeans who screamed bloody murder that we were killing innocent Iraqi children by those nasty damned old sanctions. And of course the UN head, old goofi, refuses to expose the corruption[^]. If this doesn't fuel the US movement out of the UN, nothing will, but it is damned well time to leave. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: Bring what up? The elephant in the living room or the hypocrisy of Europeans who screamed bloody murder that we were killing innocent Iraqi children by those nasty damned old sanctions. Yeah amazing what $21 billion dollars will buy in the way of loyalty from Europe....... Sadam must have been proud watching the Security council flop and twitch over how to deal with him. Kofi Annan should be invited to leave the US along with the rest of the UN Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Mike Gaskey wrote: Bring what up? The elephant in the living room or the hypocrisy of Europeans who screamed bloody murder that we were killing innocent Iraqi children by those nasty damned old sanctions. Yeah amazing what $21 billion dollars will buy in the way of loyalty from Europe....... Sadam must have been proud watching the Security council flop and twitch over how to deal with him. Kofi Annan should be invited to leave the US along with the rest of the UN Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
the silence is deafening. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Bring what up? The elephant in the living room or the hypocrisy of Europeans who screamed bloody murder that we were killing innocent Iraqi children by those nasty damned old sanctions. And of course the UN head, old goofi, refuses to expose the corruption[^]. If this doesn't fuel the US movement out of the UN, nothing will, but it is damned well time to leave. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
If something is broken is it the proper attitude to just quit? Various people here have mentioned moving to Canada in response to another 4 years of a Bush Administration. Many have criticized this (rightly so, IMHO). Yet if you criticize this behaviour, leaving the US because you don't like the current Pres, how do you defend leaving the UN because you don't like the current Sec Gen? Ultimately don't you want to *fix* the problem? What does leaving achieve, other than to just "take your toys home"? If there are problems in the UN, why not address them, and work towards fixing them? And before you go on to claim that it's corrupt, well of course it is. Just about any large *human* group, at some point, adds layers of bureacracy and levels of corruption. You could easily say the exact same thing about many agencies in the US Govt. So instead of whining about how corrupt it is, isn't it our obligation to work towards making it a better organization? ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned
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If something is broken is it the proper attitude to just quit? Various people here have mentioned moving to Canada in response to another 4 years of a Bush Administration. Many have criticized this (rightly so, IMHO). Yet if you criticize this behaviour, leaving the US because you don't like the current Pres, how do you defend leaving the UN because you don't like the current Sec Gen? Ultimately don't you want to *fix* the problem? What does leaving achieve, other than to just "take your toys home"? If there are problems in the UN, why not address them, and work towards fixing them? And before you go on to claim that it's corrupt, well of course it is. Just about any large *human* group, at some point, adds layers of bureacracy and levels of corruption. You could easily say the exact same thing about many agencies in the US Govt. So instead of whining about how corrupt it is, isn't it our obligation to work towards making it a better organization? ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned
Jim Crafton wrote: If something is broken is it the proper attitude to just quit? In general no, however, in the case of the UN what is the alternative? The institution itself is corrupt whether we are discussing the Oil for Food program, or the choice of nations such as Libya as the head of the Human Rights Commision. The idea of the Security Council itself is ridiculous giving permanent seats to Nations which can veto resolutions based on their own self interests. Jim Crafton wrote: So instead of whining about how corrupt it is, isn't it our obligation to work towards making it a better organization? Yes it is our obligation to do that, thats why I would suggest the idea of working inside of a framework such as NATO, where members have an even voice and common interests. The UN framework as such that it leads to currupting the process by allowing manipulation of the Security Council and commitees. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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the silence is deafening. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
I expected that it would be...... Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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Jim Crafton wrote: If something is broken is it the proper attitude to just quit? In general no, however, in the case of the UN what is the alternative? The institution itself is corrupt whether we are discussing the Oil for Food program, or the choice of nations such as Libya as the head of the Human Rights Commision. The idea of the Security Council itself is ridiculous giving permanent seats to Nations which can veto resolutions based on their own self interests. Jim Crafton wrote: So instead of whining about how corrupt it is, isn't it our obligation to work towards making it a better organization? Yes it is our obligation to do that, thats why I would suggest the idea of working inside of a framework such as NATO, where members have an even voice and common interests. The UN framework as such that it leads to currupting the process by allowing manipulation of the Security Council and commitees. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
errm http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/data/vetotab.htm[^] Since 1966 America has used it more times than anyone else. Russia used it a lot in the early years but it looks like they got bored. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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All right I have to bring it up....... In light of the 21 Billion dollars [^]that Saddam got out of the last UN sanctions aimed at Iraq, how effective does anyone think this is going to be? http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/11/15/ivory.arms/index.html[^]. Of course not as many people stand to make as much money with the Ivory Coast cocoa eh?:~ Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Seeing as they already have guns to me it just appears to be a case of oh look there goes the horse better shut up the stable. Which is about as effective as what they are doing in darfur at the moment. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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If something is broken is it the proper attitude to just quit? Various people here have mentioned moving to Canada in response to another 4 years of a Bush Administration. Many have criticized this (rightly so, IMHO). Yet if you criticize this behaviour, leaving the US because you don't like the current Pres, how do you defend leaving the UN because you don't like the current Sec Gen? Ultimately don't you want to *fix* the problem? What does leaving achieve, other than to just "take your toys home"? If there are problems in the UN, why not address them, and work towards fixing them? And before you go on to claim that it's corrupt, well of course it is. Just about any large *human* group, at some point, adds layers of bureacracy and levels of corruption. You could easily say the exact same thing about many agencies in the US Govt. So instead of whining about how corrupt it is, isn't it our obligation to work towards making it a better organization? ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned
With my very limited knowledge about the UN, it seems to me it is striving to be too much. If we plan to use it as a sort of Global governing body, then departments, elections and a constitution ratified by all member nations needs to be in place. BW The Biggest Loser
"Farm Donkey makes us laugh.
Farm Donkey hauls some ass."
-The Stoves -
Africa is always going to be violent and downtrodden. There is no solution here. The natives that have some education are going to leave for Western shores - so you are left with uneducated people with a medieval mentality armed with modern day weapons. I agree sanctions only hurt the average person in the country and generally the dictator survives. But the alternative is using force. Look at the genocide in Rwanda. That was real actual genocide. If the UN did nothing in that situation, it says that they are never going to risk Western lives for African conflicts. When Westerner are involved there is going to be overwhelming force to punish them and then they will pull out. The only solution left is to form an African peace corp with the power to invade countries to restore order. There would have to be checks and balances to make sure it was not corrupted. This would allow a local, less foreign solution to native African problems and would not risk Western lives.
Better to rule in Hell, than serve in Heaven Milton
There is an African Peace Core / Subsiduary of the UN or whatever they are calling it in Darfur at the moment the only problem is that they have not been given the authority to do anything so they can only sit by and watch while Janaweed ( literal translation mounted theives ) continue what a lot of people consider to be Genocide before going back to their day jobs. At the moment the politicians wont even agree that it's Genocide and even if they could be gotten to agree at the moment they would probably follow the American line of it's Genocide but we aren't going to do anything about it. I strongly suspect that until the western governments get their acts together and agree to support and give authority to a African Peace Corps then the news is going to continue to be full of bloodshed and turmoil from both Darfur and the Ivory Coast for sometime to come. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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errm http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/data/vetotab.htm[^] Since 1966 America has used it more times than anyone else. Russia used it a lot in the early years but it looks like they got bored. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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pseudonym67 wrote: Since 1966 America has used it more times than anyone else. I wonder how many of those were in regard to anti-Israeli resolutions?
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/veto/vetosubj.htm[^] A resolution is not anti any country it is usually a response to a breach of international or humanitarian law. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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errm http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/data/vetotab.htm[^] Since 1966 America has used it more times than anyone else. Russia used it a lot in the early years but it looks like they got bored. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
So your assertion is that the UN isn't a corrupt institution that bows to pressures based on individual country's self interests? Maybe you are asserting that the UN Oil for Food Program wasn't a huge ripoff tainted by the corruption of UN bureaucrats and members of the Security Council? Or maybe that the US hasn't had reason to feel that the proceedings of the Security Council were invalid and shouldn't have vetoed actions inside the Council? Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/membship/veto/vetosubj.htm[^] A resolution is not anti any country it is usually a response to a breach of international or humanitarian law. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
pseudonym67 wrote: A resolution is not anti any country it is usually a response to a breach of international or humanitarian law. I'm not a big fan of Sharon and Co. but I have to wonder how many times the Security Council condemned the actions of the PLO, Hamas, and Hezzbollah in regards to how they dealt with Israel. I have a lot of trouble believing that there isn't something of a slant against Israel based on the influence of the many Arab states and their wealth. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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So your assertion is that the UN isn't a corrupt institution that bows to pressures based on individual country's self interests? Maybe you are asserting that the UN Oil for Food Program wasn't a huge ripoff tainted by the corruption of UN bureaucrats and members of the Security Council? Or maybe that the US hasn't had reason to feel that the proceedings of the Security Council were invalid and shouldn't have vetoed actions inside the Council? Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
Huh? What? Where did I say any of that? What Fu**in fantasy land are you in now? I asserted? Oh Maybe I asserted? OOh another maybe. Cripes If I keep this up I wont know what the f**k I'm talking about. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
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There is an African Peace Core / Subsiduary of the UN or whatever they are calling it in Darfur at the moment the only problem is that they have not been given the authority to do anything so they can only sit by and watch while Janaweed ( literal translation mounted theives ) continue what a lot of people consider to be Genocide before going back to their day jobs. At the moment the politicians wont even agree that it's Genocide and even if they could be gotten to agree at the moment they would probably follow the American line of it's Genocide but we aren't going to do anything about it. I strongly suspect that until the western governments get their acts together and agree to support and give authority to a African Peace Corps then the news is going to continue to be full of bloodshed and turmoil from both Darfur and the Ivory Coast for sometime to come. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
pseudonym67 wrote: I strongly suspect that until the western governments get their acts together and agree to support and give authority to a African Peace Corps then the news is going to continue to be full of bloodshed and turmoil from both Darfur and the Ivory Coast for sometime to come. Yeah and the same goes for Rhwanda and how many other places. Unfortunately for people living in Africa, the majority of the countries there don't have the wealth to buy the influence that Saddam did. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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There is an African Peace Core / Subsiduary of the UN or whatever they are calling it in Darfur at the moment the only problem is that they have not been given the authority to do anything so they can only sit by and watch while Janaweed ( literal translation mounted theives ) continue what a lot of people consider to be Genocide before going back to their day jobs. At the moment the politicians wont even agree that it's Genocide and even if they could be gotten to agree at the moment they would probably follow the American line of it's Genocide but we aren't going to do anything about it. I strongly suspect that until the western governments get their acts together and agree to support and give authority to a African Peace Corps then the news is going to continue to be full of bloodshed and turmoil from both Darfur and the Ivory Coast for sometime to come. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
pseudonym67 wrote: I strongly suspect that until the western governments get their acts together and agree to support and give authority to a African Peace Corps then the news is going to continue to be full of bloodshed and turmoil from both Darfur and the Ivory Coast for sometime to come. Yeah and the same goes for Rhwanda and how many other places. Unfortunately for people living in Africa, the majority of the countries there don't have the wealth to buy the influence that Saddam did. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?
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There is an African Peace Core / Subsiduary of the UN or whatever they are calling it in Darfur at the moment the only problem is that they have not been given the authority to do anything so they can only sit by and watch while Janaweed ( literal translation mounted theives ) continue what a lot of people consider to be Genocide before going back to their day jobs. At the moment the politicians wont even agree that it's Genocide and even if they could be gotten to agree at the moment they would probably follow the American line of it's Genocide but we aren't going to do anything about it. I strongly suspect that until the western governments get their acts together and agree to support and give authority to a African Peace Corps then the news is going to continue to be full of bloodshed and turmoil from both Darfur and the Ivory Coast for sometime to come. pseudonym67 My Articles[^] "They say there are strangers who threaten us, In our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness too dangerous In our theaters and bookstore shelves. That those who know what's best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves." Rush
pseudonym67 wrote: I strongly suspect that until the western governments get their acts together and agree to support and give authority to a African Peace Corps then the news is going to continue to be full of bloodshed and turmoil from both Darfur and the Ivory Coast for sometime to come. Yeah and the same goes for Rhwanda and how many other places. Unfortunately for people living in Africa, the majority of the countries there don't have the wealth to buy the influence that Saddam did. Uptight Ex-Military Republican married to a Commie Lib - How weird is that?