Tale of Two Diplomats
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"The coverage of Colin and Condi says as much about the media as it does about the outgoing and incoming secretaries of state. It doesn't take a secret decoder ring to figure out that journalists have set this up as a morality play. And that much of it revolves around the role played by both officials on Iraq... Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen, a Powell admirer, says the man blew his moment in history" "The pity is not that Colin Powell has resigned as secretary of state. The pity is that he did not do so quickly. "Had he resigned during the buildup to the war in Iraq, which he privately opposed, history might award him an asterisk and note that his tenure as secretary of state, while notable for nothing notable, ended over an important disagreement. Had that happened, Powell could then join just two secretaries of state -- William Jennings Bryan and Cyrus Vance -- who resigned because they differed with their presidents, Bryan with Woodrow Wilson, Vance with Jimmy Carter. The best that can be said about Powell is that he disagreed. The worst is that he did nothing significant about it." Progressive Editor Matthew Rothschild is in the same mode: "Secretary of State Colin Powell's resignation comes two years too late. "Too late to have had a significant effect on major world events. "Too late to have slowed down Bush's reckless march to war against Iraq. "Too late to have offered the American people vital information before making their fateful decision on November 2. "Too late to have salvaged his own reputation."..." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/columns/kurtzhoward/[^] Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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"The coverage of Colin and Condi says as much about the media as it does about the outgoing and incoming secretaries of state. It doesn't take a secret decoder ring to figure out that journalists have set this up as a morality play. And that much of it revolves around the role played by both officials on Iraq... Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen, a Powell admirer, says the man blew his moment in history" "The pity is not that Colin Powell has resigned as secretary of state. The pity is that he did not do so quickly. "Had he resigned during the buildup to the war in Iraq, which he privately opposed, history might award him an asterisk and note that his tenure as secretary of state, while notable for nothing notable, ended over an important disagreement. Had that happened, Powell could then join just two secretaries of state -- William Jennings Bryan and Cyrus Vance -- who resigned because they differed with their presidents, Bryan with Woodrow Wilson, Vance with Jimmy Carter. The best that can be said about Powell is that he disagreed. The worst is that he did nothing significant about it." Progressive Editor Matthew Rothschild is in the same mode: "Secretary of State Colin Powell's resignation comes two years too late. "Too late to have had a significant effect on major world events. "Too late to have slowed down Bush's reckless march to war against Iraq. "Too late to have offered the American people vital information before making their fateful decision on November 2. "Too late to have salvaged his own reputation."..." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/columns/kurtzhoward/[^] Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
JoeSox wrote: The coverage of Colin and Condi says as much about the media as it does about the outgoing and incoming secretaries of state. The way I've heard it so far is: the liberal media (virtually all the media) views Powell as some sort of traitor for doing the job he agreed to do while it views Ms. Rice with distain because she is sccessful without Democrat Party or NAACP sponsership. Conservative media views Powell as anti-Bush (but quietly) and Ms. Rice as a terrific succcess. I would love to read (an honest) history book, say from 2050. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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"The coverage of Colin and Condi says as much about the media as it does about the outgoing and incoming secretaries of state. It doesn't take a secret decoder ring to figure out that journalists have set this up as a morality play. And that much of it revolves around the role played by both officials on Iraq... Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen, a Powell admirer, says the man blew his moment in history" "The pity is not that Colin Powell has resigned as secretary of state. The pity is that he did not do so quickly. "Had he resigned during the buildup to the war in Iraq, which he privately opposed, history might award him an asterisk and note that his tenure as secretary of state, while notable for nothing notable, ended over an important disagreement. Had that happened, Powell could then join just two secretaries of state -- William Jennings Bryan and Cyrus Vance -- who resigned because they differed with their presidents, Bryan with Woodrow Wilson, Vance with Jimmy Carter. The best that can be said about Powell is that he disagreed. The worst is that he did nothing significant about it." Progressive Editor Matthew Rothschild is in the same mode: "Secretary of State Colin Powell's resignation comes two years too late. "Too late to have had a significant effect on major world events. "Too late to have slowed down Bush's reckless march to war against Iraq. "Too late to have offered the American people vital information before making their fateful decision on November 2. "Too late to have salvaged his own reputation."..." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/columns/kurtzhoward/[^] Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
What a bunch of idiots. They don't have the guts to say - he should have quit of his own volition, instead of being forced out on threat of being fired by Cheney and co.
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JoeSox wrote: The coverage of Colin and Condi says as much about the media as it does about the outgoing and incoming secretaries of state. The way I've heard it so far is: the liberal media (virtually all the media) views Powell as some sort of traitor for doing the job he agreed to do while it views Ms. Rice with distain because she is sccessful without Democrat Party or NAACP sponsership. Conservative media views Powell as anti-Bush (but quietly) and Ms. Rice as a terrific succcess. I would love to read (an honest) history book, say from 2050. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Mike Gaskey wrote: Ms. Rice as a terrific succcess based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Mike Gaskey wrote: the liberal media views Powell as some sort of traitor for doing the job he agreed to do not a traitor, just a 'good soldier' who did what he was told, against his own better judgement, and squandered his own good reputation in the process. more tragedy than crime. Software | Cleek
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Mike Gaskey wrote: Ms. Rice as a terrific succcess based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Mike Gaskey wrote: the liberal media views Powell as some sort of traitor for doing the job he agreed to do not a traitor, just a 'good soldier' who did what he was told, against his own better judgement, and squandered his own good reputation in the process. more tragedy than crime. Software | Cleek
Graduated from high school at age 15, enrolled in college the same year, University of Denver. Graduated from U of D, Phi Beta Kappa Masters Degree, Notre Dame Ph.d from U of D (in her mid-20s) Professor at Stanford National Security Council's deputy director of Soviet affairs - 1990s Stanford's Provost - chief academic and budget officer, reports to the university president. Then a part of the Bush team. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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Mike Gaskey wrote: Ms. Rice as a terrific succcess based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Mike Gaskey wrote: the liberal media views Powell as some sort of traitor for doing the job he agreed to do not a traitor, just a 'good soldier' who did what he was told, against his own better judgement, and squandered his own good reputation in the process. more tragedy than crime. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Are you really that far out of touch with reality ? Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
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Graduated from high school at age 15, enrolled in college the same year, University of Denver. Graduated from U of D, Phi Beta Kappa Masters Degree, Notre Dame Ph.d from U of D (in her mid-20s) Professor at Stanford National Security Council's deputy director of Soviet affairs - 1990s Stanford's Provost - chief academic and budget officer, reports to the university president. Then a part of the Bush team. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? I think Rice's judgment is really what is in question. Everyone knows Rice is intelligent. What does she really value when she is placed in judgment calls is the more interesting question, imo. Is she there because she will or will not put heat on long standing department heads? I like Rice and have watched many interviews but if she is Bush's right hand-woman and Bush is making bad judgment calls. Leaves me thinking "What the fuck is really happening at the Whitehouse?":~ Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Graduated from high school at age 15, enrolled in college the same year, University of Denver. Graduated from U of D, Phi Beta Kappa Masters Degree, Notre Dame Ph.d from U of D (in her mid-20s) Professor at Stanford National Security Council's deputy director of Soviet affairs - 1990s Stanford's Provost - chief academic and budget officer, reports to the university president. Then a part of the Bush team. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
clearly, she has a lot of university experience. but, how about a list of her accomplishments as NSA ? that's what we're talking about here, right? Powell's accomplishments under Bush lead the right to think of him as "quietly" "anti-Bush"; and Rice's accomplishments under Bush lead the right to think of her as "a terrific succcess". because i have no doubt i could find Democrats with equal resumes, and i don't think for a second you'd call them "a terrific succcess". so, what has she done as NSA under Bush that makes you think she's a success ? Software | Cleek
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Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? I think Rice's judgment is really what is in question. Everyone knows Rice is intelligent. What does she really value when she is placed in judgment calls is the more interesting question, imo. Is she there because she will or will not put heat on long standing department heads? I like Rice and have watched many interviews but if she is Bush's right hand-woman and Bush is making bad judgment calls. Leaves me thinking "What the fuck is really happening at the Whitehouse?":~ Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
JoeSox wrote: Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? that wasn't her job. her job was to facilitate the plans Bush had already decided on. don't believe me? look at who Bush is appointing now; he's appointing yes-men, cronies and political facilitators, not critical thinkers. and look who he's fired over the course of the last four years: people who disagree with him or who challenge his goals. and yes, that's his prerogative. but, if you want to question someone's judgement, start at the top. everyone else is there to tell him what pretty clothes he has. Software | Cleek
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Chris Losinger wrote: based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Are you really that far out of touch with reality ? Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
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Chris Losinger wrote: based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Are you really that far out of touch with reality ? Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
Richard Stringer wrote: Are you really that far out of touch with reality ? I don't know what her accomplishments are either. I just don't happen to know that information.
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Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? I think Rice's judgment is really what is in question. Everyone knows Rice is intelligent. What does she really value when she is placed in judgment calls is the more interesting question, imo. Is she there because she will or will not put heat on long standing department heads? I like Rice and have watched many interviews but if she is Bush's right hand-woman and Bush is making bad judgment calls. Leaves me thinking "What the fuck is really happening at the Whitehouse?":~ Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
JoeSox wrote: Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? Okay, now let's examine this but from your perspective. You're (according to your bio) a system's administrator and you've just informed your CIO that you've identified a threat to your system and you need umpty-two $$ to protect it with some new piece of hardware / software. Does he duplicate your work in order to prove you right or wrong? Same thing applies here, Rice's subordinates (including one that later publishes a book stating some different) tells her there are threats. So, does she go to country "X" and verify or trust the trusted employee and act or recommend acting on the intelligience? JoeSox wrote: but if she is Bush's right hand-woman and Bush is making bad judgment calls. Subjective, you disagree with decisions but 50% of teh country doesn't. JoeSox wrote: What the f*** is really happening at the Whitehouse? Someone if FINALLY looking out for us, my opinion. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me
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clearly, she has a lot of university experience. but, how about a list of her accomplishments as NSA ? that's what we're talking about here, right? Powell's accomplishments under Bush lead the right to think of him as "quietly" "anti-Bush"; and Rice's accomplishments under Bush lead the right to think of her as "a terrific succcess". because i have no doubt i could find Democrats with equal resumes, and i don't think for a second you'd call them "a terrific succcess". so, what has she done as NSA under Bush that makes you think she's a success ? Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: so, what has she done as NSA under Bush that makes you think she's a success ? I don't know crap about Condi or if she's qualified or not, but I have a question. How can I find out about any previous National Security Advisor's accomplishments under any previous administration? I've looked and I can't find anything. Hard to make a comparison with such a lack of data. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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Chris Losinger wrote: so, what has she done as NSA under Bush that makes you think she's a success ? I don't know crap about Condi or if she's qualified or not, but I have a question. How can I find out about any previous National Security Advisor's accomplishments under any previous administration? I've looked and I can't find anything. Hard to make a comparison with such a lack of data. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
Mike Mullikin wrote: Hard to make a comparison with such a lack of data and yet, the right speaks of her as if she's done a terrific job. if you can't make a comparison, how can you say she's done a good job? "good" implies a scale of some kind. they're even talking about her as a possible presidential candidate for 2008 - a pro-choice, single, 50 yr old, black, woman, purjurer - an impossible sell, IMO, yet something has made people think she's all that and a bag of chips. Software | Cleek
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Hard to make a comparison with such a lack of data and yet, the right speaks of her as if she's done a terrific job. if you can't make a comparison, how can you say she's done a good job? "good" implies a scale of some kind. they're even talking about her as a possible presidential candidate for 2008 - a pro-choice, single, 50 yr old, black, woman, purjurer - an impossible sell, IMO, yet something has made people think she's all that and a bag of chips. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: you can't make a comparison, how can you say she's done a good job? I didn't. ;) Chris Losinger wrote: they're even talking about her as a possible presidential candidate for 2008... Never happen. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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JoeSox wrote: Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? that wasn't her job. her job was to facilitate the plans Bush had already decided on. don't believe me? look at who Bush is appointing now; he's appointing yes-men, cronies and political facilitators, not critical thinkers. and look who he's fired over the course of the last four years: people who disagree with him or who challenge his goals. and yes, that's his prerogative. but, if you want to question someone's judgement, start at the top. everyone else is there to tell him what pretty clothes he has. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: that wasn't her job. her job was to facilitate the plans Bush had already decided on. That's right Rice was just an Advisor wasn't she? Chris Losinger wrote: look at who Bush is appointing now; he's appointing yes-men, cronies and political facilitators, not critical thinkers. This is true, imo. But on the flip-side, just for argument's sake "An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." -Niels Bohr Bush has to fix his own mess and perhaps the only way to do it is with these types of people around him. Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest
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Chris Losinger wrote: you can't make a comparison, how can you say she's done a good job? I didn't. ;) Chris Losinger wrote: they're even talking about her as a possible presidential candidate for 2008... Never happen. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
Mike Mullikin wrote: I didn't mea culpa Mike Mullikin wrote: Never happen i've always thought the only way a woman or a black person could get the job was as a Republican. i still don't think the country is ready. but, it might be interesting to see her try. it'd bring out the best and worst in a lot of people, i'm sure. Software | Cleek
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Anonymous wrote: HUR HUR HUR HUR BELITTLING PEOPLE IS FUN AND MAKES ME RIGHT HUR HUR HUR HUR HUR And poking fun at people under the cloak of anonymity makes you feel....???
Paul Lyons, CCPL
Certified Code Project Lurker -
Mike Mullikin wrote: I didn't mea culpa Mike Mullikin wrote: Never happen i've always thought the only way a woman or a black person could get the job was as a Republican. i still don't think the country is ready. but, it might be interesting to see her try. it'd bring out the best and worst in a lot of people, i'm sure. Software | Cleek
Chris Losinger wrote: i've always thought the only way a woman or a black person could get the job was as a Republican. Probably, but at the same time the successful candidate will have to be centrist not overly right. They'll be losing the hard right racist chauvinists and they'll need to make it up from the left and indies. ;) "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
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Mike Mullikin wrote: I didn't mea culpa Mike Mullikin wrote: Never happen i've always thought the only way a woman or a black person could get the job was as a Republican. i still don't think the country is ready. but, it might be interesting to see her try. it'd bring out the best and worst in a lot of people, i'm sure. Software | Cleek