Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Code Project
  1. Home
  2. Other Discussions
  3. The Back Room
  4. Tale of Two Diplomats

Tale of Two Diplomats

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Back Room
com
23 Posts 10 Posters 0 Views 1 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • J Offline
    J Offline
    JoeSox
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    "The coverage of Colin and Condi says as much about the media as it does about the outgoing and incoming secretaries of state. It doesn't take a secret decoder ring to figure out that journalists have set this up as a morality play. And that much of it revolves around the role played by both officials on Iraq... Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen, a Powell admirer, says the man blew his moment in history" "The pity is not that Colin Powell has resigned as secretary of state. The pity is that he did not do so quickly. "Had he resigned during the buildup to the war in Iraq, which he privately opposed, history might award him an asterisk and note that his tenure as secretary of state, while notable for nothing notable, ended over an important disagreement. Had that happened, Powell could then join just two secretaries of state -- William Jennings Bryan and Cyrus Vance -- who resigned because they differed with their presidents, Bryan with Woodrow Wilson, Vance with Jimmy Carter. The best that can be said about Powell is that he disagreed. The worst is that he did nothing significant about it." Progressive Editor Matthew Rothschild is in the same mode: "Secretary of State Colin Powell's resignation comes two years too late. "Too late to have had a significant effect on major world events. "Too late to have slowed down Bush's reckless march to war against Iraq. "Too late to have offered the American people vital information before making their fateful decision on November 2. "Too late to have salvaged his own reputation."..." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/columns/kurtzhoward/[^] Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest

    M J 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • J JoeSox

      "The coverage of Colin and Condi says as much about the media as it does about the outgoing and incoming secretaries of state. It doesn't take a secret decoder ring to figure out that journalists have set this up as a morality play. And that much of it revolves around the role played by both officials on Iraq... Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen, a Powell admirer, says the man blew his moment in history" "The pity is not that Colin Powell has resigned as secretary of state. The pity is that he did not do so quickly. "Had he resigned during the buildup to the war in Iraq, which he privately opposed, history might award him an asterisk and note that his tenure as secretary of state, while notable for nothing notable, ended over an important disagreement. Had that happened, Powell could then join just two secretaries of state -- William Jennings Bryan and Cyrus Vance -- who resigned because they differed with their presidents, Bryan with Woodrow Wilson, Vance with Jimmy Carter. The best that can be said about Powell is that he disagreed. The worst is that he did nothing significant about it." Progressive Editor Matthew Rothschild is in the same mode: "Secretary of State Colin Powell's resignation comes two years too late. "Too late to have had a significant effect on major world events. "Too late to have slowed down Bush's reckless march to war against Iraq. "Too late to have offered the American people vital information before making their fateful decision on November 2. "Too late to have salvaged his own reputation."..." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/columns/kurtzhoward/[^] Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest

      M Offline
      M Offline
      Mike Gaskey
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      JoeSox wrote: The coverage of Colin and Condi says as much about the media as it does about the outgoing and incoming secretaries of state. The way I've heard it so far is: the liberal media (virtually all the media) views Powell as some sort of traitor for doing the job he agreed to do while it views Ms. Rice with distain because she is sccessful without Democrat Party or NAACP sponsership. Conservative media views Powell as anti-Bush (but quietly) and Ms. Rice as a terrific succcess. I would love to read (an honest) history book, say from 2050. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me

      C 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • J JoeSox

        "The coverage of Colin and Condi says as much about the media as it does about the outgoing and incoming secretaries of state. It doesn't take a secret decoder ring to figure out that journalists have set this up as a morality play. And that much of it revolves around the role played by both officials on Iraq... Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen, a Powell admirer, says the man blew his moment in history" "The pity is not that Colin Powell has resigned as secretary of state. The pity is that he did not do so quickly. "Had he resigned during the buildup to the war in Iraq, which he privately opposed, history might award him an asterisk and note that his tenure as secretary of state, while notable for nothing notable, ended over an important disagreement. Had that happened, Powell could then join just two secretaries of state -- William Jennings Bryan and Cyrus Vance -- who resigned because they differed with their presidents, Bryan with Woodrow Wilson, Vance with Jimmy Carter. The best that can be said about Powell is that he disagreed. The worst is that he did nothing significant about it." Progressive Editor Matthew Rothschild is in the same mode: "Secretary of State Colin Powell's resignation comes two years too late. "Too late to have had a significant effect on major world events. "Too late to have slowed down Bush's reckless march to war against Iraq. "Too late to have offered the American people vital information before making their fateful decision on November 2. "Too late to have salvaged his own reputation."..." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/columns/kurtzhoward/[^] Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest

        J Offline
        J Offline
        Jeff Bogan
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        What a bunch of idiots. They don't have the guts to say - he should have quit of his own volition, instead of being forced out on threat of being fired by Cheney and co.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • M Mike Gaskey

          JoeSox wrote: The coverage of Colin and Condi says as much about the media as it does about the outgoing and incoming secretaries of state. The way I've heard it so far is: the liberal media (virtually all the media) views Powell as some sort of traitor for doing the job he agreed to do while it views Ms. Rice with distain because she is sccessful without Democrat Party or NAACP sponsership. Conservative media views Powell as anti-Bush (but quietly) and Ms. Rice as a terrific succcess. I would love to read (an honest) history book, say from 2050. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me

          C Offline
          C Offline
          Chris Losinger
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Mike Gaskey wrote: Ms. Rice as a terrific succcess based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Mike Gaskey wrote: the liberal media views Powell as some sort of traitor for doing the job he agreed to do not a traitor, just a 'good soldier' who did what he was told, against his own better judgement, and squandered his own good reputation in the process. more tragedy than crime. Software | Cleek

          M R B 3 Replies Last reply
          0
          • C Chris Losinger

            Mike Gaskey wrote: Ms. Rice as a terrific succcess based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Mike Gaskey wrote: the liberal media views Powell as some sort of traitor for doing the job he agreed to do not a traitor, just a 'good soldier' who did what he was told, against his own better judgement, and squandered his own good reputation in the process. more tragedy than crime. Software | Cleek

            M Offline
            M Offline
            Mike Gaskey
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Graduated from high school at age 15, enrolled in college the same year, University of Denver. Graduated from U of D, Phi Beta Kappa Masters Degree, Notre Dame Ph.d from U of D (in her mid-20s) Professor at Stanford National Security Council's deputy director of Soviet affairs - 1990s Stanford's Provost - chief academic and budget officer, reports to the university president. Then a part of the Bush team. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me

            J C 2 Replies Last reply
            0
            • C Chris Losinger

              Mike Gaskey wrote: Ms. Rice as a terrific succcess based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Mike Gaskey wrote: the liberal media views Powell as some sort of traitor for doing the job he agreed to do not a traitor, just a 'good soldier' who did what he was told, against his own better judgement, and squandered his own good reputation in the process. more tragedy than crime. Software | Cleek

              R Offline
              R Offline
              Richard Stringer
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Chris Losinger wrote: based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Are you really that far out of touch with reality ? Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

              A C 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • M Mike Gaskey

                Graduated from high school at age 15, enrolled in college the same year, University of Denver. Graduated from U of D, Phi Beta Kappa Masters Degree, Notre Dame Ph.d from U of D (in her mid-20s) Professor at Stanford National Security Council's deputy director of Soviet affairs - 1990s Stanford's Provost - chief academic and budget officer, reports to the university president. Then a part of the Bush team. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me

                J Offline
                J Offline
                JoeSox
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? I think Rice's judgment is really what is in question. Everyone knows Rice is intelligent. What does she really value when she is placed in judgment calls is the more interesting question, imo. Is she there because she will or will not put heat on long standing department heads? I like Rice and have watched many interviews but if she is Bush's right hand-woman and Bush is making bad judgment calls. Leaves me thinking "What the fuck is really happening at the Whitehouse?":~ Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest

                C M 2 Replies Last reply
                0
                • M Mike Gaskey

                  Graduated from high school at age 15, enrolled in college the same year, University of Denver. Graduated from U of D, Phi Beta Kappa Masters Degree, Notre Dame Ph.d from U of D (in her mid-20s) Professor at Stanford National Security Council's deputy director of Soviet affairs - 1990s Stanford's Provost - chief academic and budget officer, reports to the university president. Then a part of the Bush team. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me

                  C Offline
                  C Offline
                  Chris Losinger
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  clearly, she has a lot of university experience. but, how about a list of her accomplishments as NSA ? that's what we're talking about here, right? Powell's accomplishments under Bush lead the right to think of him as "quietly" "anti-Bush"; and Rice's accomplishments under Bush lead the right to think of her as "a terrific succcess". because i have no doubt i could find Democrats with equal resumes, and i don't think for a second you'd call them "a terrific succcess". so, what has she done as NSA under Bush that makes you think she's a success ? Software | Cleek

                  L 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • J JoeSox

                    Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? I think Rice's judgment is really what is in question. Everyone knows Rice is intelligent. What does she really value when she is placed in judgment calls is the more interesting question, imo. Is she there because she will or will not put heat on long standing department heads? I like Rice and have watched many interviews but if she is Bush's right hand-woman and Bush is making bad judgment calls. Leaves me thinking "What the fuck is really happening at the Whitehouse?":~ Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest

                    C Offline
                    C Offline
                    Chris Losinger
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    JoeSox wrote: Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? that wasn't her job. her job was to facilitate the plans Bush had already decided on. don't believe me? look at who Bush is appointing now; he's appointing yes-men, cronies and political facilitators, not critical thinkers. and look who he's fired over the course of the last four years: people who disagree with him or who challenge his goals. and yes, that's his prerogative. but, if you want to question someone's judgement, start at the top. everyone else is there to tell him what pretty clothes he has. Software | Cleek

                    J 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • R Richard Stringer

                      Chris Losinger wrote: based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Are you really that far out of touch with reality ? Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

                      A Offline
                      A Offline
                      Anonymous
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      HUR HUR HUR HUR BELITTLING PEOPLE IS FUN AND MAKES ME RIGHT HUR HUR HUR HUR HUR

                      P 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • R Richard Stringer

                        Chris Losinger wrote: based on what, exactly ? can you give me a list of her accomplishments ? Are you really that far out of touch with reality ? Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

                        C Offline
                        C Offline
                        Colin Angus Mackay
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Richard Stringer wrote: Are you really that far out of touch with reality ? I don't know what her accomplishments are either. I just don't happen to know that information.


                        Do you want to know more?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • J JoeSox

                          Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? I think Rice's judgment is really what is in question. Everyone knows Rice is intelligent. What does she really value when she is placed in judgment calls is the more interesting question, imo. Is she there because she will or will not put heat on long standing department heads? I like Rice and have watched many interviews but if she is Bush's right hand-woman and Bush is making bad judgment calls. Leaves me thinking "What the fuck is really happening at the Whitehouse?":~ Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest

                          M Offline
                          M Offline
                          Mike Gaskey
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          JoeSox wrote: Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? Okay, now let's examine this but from your perspective. You're (according to your bio) a system's administrator and you've just informed your CIO that you've identified a threat to your system and you need umpty-two $$ to protect it with some new piece of hardware / software. Does he duplicate your work in order to prove you right or wrong? Same thing applies here, Rice's subordinates (including one that later publishes a book stating some different) tells her there are threats. So, does she go to country "X" and verify or trust the trusted employee and act or recommend acting on the intelligience? JoeSox wrote: but if she is Bush's right hand-woman and Bush is making bad judgment calls. Subjective, you disagree with decisions but 50% of teh country doesn't. JoeSox wrote: What the f*** is really happening at the Whitehouse? Someone if FINALLY looking out for us, my opinion. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me

                          J 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • C Chris Losinger

                            clearly, she has a lot of university experience. but, how about a list of her accomplishments as NSA ? that's what we're talking about here, right? Powell's accomplishments under Bush lead the right to think of him as "quietly" "anti-Bush"; and Rice's accomplishments under Bush lead the right to think of her as "a terrific succcess". because i have no doubt i could find Democrats with equal resumes, and i don't think for a second you'd call them "a terrific succcess". so, what has she done as NSA under Bush that makes you think she's a success ? Software | Cleek

                            L Offline
                            L Offline
                            Lost User
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Chris Losinger wrote: so, what has she done as NSA under Bush that makes you think she's a success ? I don't know crap about Condi or if she's qualified or not, but I have a question. How can I find out about any previous National Security Advisor's accomplishments under any previous administration? I've looked and I can't find anything. Hard to make a comparison with such a lack of data. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick

                            C 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • L Lost User

                              Chris Losinger wrote: so, what has she done as NSA under Bush that makes you think she's a success ? I don't know crap about Condi or if she's qualified or not, but I have a question. How can I find out about any previous National Security Advisor's accomplishments under any previous administration? I've looked and I can't find anything. Hard to make a comparison with such a lack of data. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick

                              C Offline
                              C Offline
                              Chris Losinger
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Mike Mullikin wrote: Hard to make a comparison with such a lack of data and yet, the right speaks of her as if she's done a terrific job. if you can't make a comparison, how can you say she's done a good job? "good" implies a scale of some kind. they're even talking about her as a possible presidential candidate for 2008 - a pro-choice, single, 50 yr old, black, woman, purjurer - an impossible sell, IMO, yet something has made people think she's all that and a bag of chips. Software | Cleek

                              L 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • C Chris Losinger

                                Mike Mullikin wrote: Hard to make a comparison with such a lack of data and yet, the right speaks of her as if she's done a terrific job. if you can't make a comparison, how can you say she's done a good job? "good" implies a scale of some kind. they're even talking about her as a possible presidential candidate for 2008 - a pro-choice, single, 50 yr old, black, woman, purjurer - an impossible sell, IMO, yet something has made people think she's all that and a bag of chips. Software | Cleek

                                L Offline
                                L Offline
                                Lost User
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Chris Losinger wrote: you can't make a comparison, how can you say she's done a good job? I didn't. ;) Chris Losinger wrote: they're even talking about her as a possible presidential candidate for 2008... Never happen. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick

                                C 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • C Chris Losinger

                                  JoeSox wrote: Why wasn't she smart enough to double check the bad intelligence from all those sources? that wasn't her job. her job was to facilitate the plans Bush had already decided on. don't believe me? look at who Bush is appointing now; he's appointing yes-men, cronies and political facilitators, not critical thinkers. and look who he's fired over the course of the last four years: people who disagree with him or who challenge his goals. and yes, that's his prerogative. but, if you want to question someone's judgement, start at the top. everyone else is there to tell him what pretty clothes he has. Software | Cleek

                                  J Offline
                                  J Offline
                                  JoeSox
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Chris Losinger wrote: that wasn't her job. her job was to facilitate the plans Bush had already decided on. That's right Rice was just an Advisor wasn't she? Chris Losinger wrote: look at who Bush is appointing now; he's appointing yes-men, cronies and political facilitators, not critical thinkers. This is true, imo. But on the flip-side, just for argument's sake "An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." -Niels Bohr Bush has to fix his own mess and perhaps the only way to do it is with these types of people around him. Later, JoeSox Word of the Day: supplant http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/ CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ joeswammi.com/sinfest

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • L Lost User

                                    Chris Losinger wrote: you can't make a comparison, how can you say she's done a good job? I didn't. ;) Chris Losinger wrote: they're even talking about her as a possible presidential candidate for 2008... Never happen. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick

                                    C Offline
                                    C Offline
                                    Chris Losinger
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Mike Mullikin wrote: I didn't mea culpa Mike Mullikin wrote: Never happen i've always thought the only way a woman or a black person could get the job was as a Republican. i still don't think the country is ready. but, it might be interesting to see her try. it'd bring out the best and worst in a lot of people, i'm sure. Software | Cleek

                                    L 2 Replies Last reply
                                    0
                                    • A Anonymous

                                      HUR HUR HUR HUR BELITTLING PEOPLE IS FUN AND MAKES ME RIGHT HUR HUR HUR HUR HUR

                                      P Offline
                                      P Offline
                                      Paul Lyons
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Anonymous wrote: HUR HUR HUR HUR BELITTLING PEOPLE IS FUN AND MAKES ME RIGHT HUR HUR HUR HUR HUR And poking fun at people under the cloak of anonymity makes you feel....???

                                      Paul Lyons, CCPL
                                      Certified Code Project Lurker

                                      A 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • C Chris Losinger

                                        Mike Mullikin wrote: I didn't mea culpa Mike Mullikin wrote: Never happen i've always thought the only way a woman or a black person could get the job was as a Republican. i still don't think the country is ready. but, it might be interesting to see her try. it'd bring out the best and worst in a lot of people, i'm sure. Software | Cleek

                                        L Offline
                                        L Offline
                                        Lost User
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Chris Losinger wrote: i've always thought the only way a woman or a black person could get the job was as a Republican. Probably, but at the same time the successful candidate will have to be centrist not overly right. They'll be losing the hard right racist chauvinists and they'll need to make it up from the left and indies. ;) "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • C Chris Losinger

                                          Mike Mullikin wrote: I didn't mea culpa Mike Mullikin wrote: Never happen i've always thought the only way a woman or a black person could get the job was as a Republican. i still don't think the country is ready. but, it might be interesting to see her try. it'd bring out the best and worst in a lot of people, i'm sure. Software | Cleek

                                          L Offline
                                          L Offline
                                          Lost User
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Chris Losinger wrote: it'd bring out the best and worst in a lot of people, i'm sure. True, but we had two rich white guys running this time and it was still brutal. ;P "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • World
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups