The Spaghetti Room is Now Open and Serving 8 Tetra-Bytes.
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M$ isn't that bad. After all, one of the biggest priorities for a company is to generate $ for its share holders. And I believe Microsoft has managed well on that point. I'm willing to bet a $ that Bill and Microsoft share holders smile every time they see the M$ "acronym". All the way to the bank. ;) -- Weiter, weiter, ins verderben. Wir müssen leben bis wir sterben. I blog too now[^]
I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't trademarked M$ yet... P.S. Lini¢ks and Open Sour¢e are the wave of the future.
:cool: Pssst. You see that little light on your monitor? That's actually a government installed spy camera. Smile and wave to big brother!
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is true I use quick regularly M$ for Microsoft, and make no excuse for it. It is most descriptive and to the point. Bless you, Marty "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
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It is used as a crutch to help prop up weak arguments. I read your post and it made no real points. It really had nothing to say at all. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Please tell me what exacly was wrong? I am always ready to correct or retract if I am wrong. Was it the thunker? Was it the non portability of 16 and 32 bit dll's? Was it the compiler you bought last week will be worthless with Longhorn? What were the weak arguments? If I said somthing that offended you I would like to know, but if I say your email contains no specific points, just empty words would I be right? Did you not place on your website the following greeting to all newbies? "I also won't bother answering questions when I feel it is obvious you haven't even tried to do any research on your own. It might sound harsh, but Zaddix took down his model information web page due to the number of questions he was receiving. I just can't spend my time answering questions such as "I am new to programming and I don't understand your web page. Can you explain it in English?" Tim Smith So I am a newbie, teach me,I just want to learn, "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
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Please tell me what exacly was wrong? I am always ready to correct or retract if I am wrong. Was it the thunker? Was it the non portability of 16 and 32 bit dll's? Was it the compiler you bought last week will be worthless with Longhorn? What were the weak arguments? If I said somthing that offended you I would like to know, but if I say your email contains no specific points, just empty words would I be right? Did you not place on your website the following greeting to all newbies? "I also won't bother answering questions when I feel it is obvious you haven't even tried to do any research on your own. It might sound harsh, but Zaddix took down his model information web page due to the number of questions he was receiving. I just can't spend my time answering questions such as "I am new to programming and I don't understand your web page. Can you explain it in English?" Tim Smith So I am a newbie, teach me,I just want to learn, "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
i understand what u are trying to say and it is a valid viewpoint but it doesnt respect all the good things ms do too so u wont get much support for outright ms bashing here it is unfortunate (and unavoidable imho) that the very strength of windows et al (one platform, one company, closed source, etc) is also one of its biggest weaknesses too i personally cant see how these things can be avoided if the technology is to break free from the constraints of its past at some point ... how ms does it maybe i dont like either but im sure bill wont be losing any sleep over my opinions ;)
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i understand what u are trying to say and it is a valid viewpoint but it doesnt respect all the good things ms do too so u wont get much support for outright ms bashing here it is unfortunate (and unavoidable imho) that the very strength of windows et al (one platform, one company, closed source, etc) is also one of its biggest weaknesses too i personally cant see how these things can be avoided if the technology is to break free from the constraints of its past at some point ... how ms does it maybe i dont like either but im sure bill wont be losing any sleep over my opinions ;)
I could say it no better, as a stockholder in M$ I can say that the stock shall rise! "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
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The Spaghetti Room is Now Open and Serving 8 Tetra-Bytes. Well everyone can now write code, this is good. How simple can it become and how many pieces crapcodes can be produced by a room of monkeys typing away 24/7 ? You will soon be able to create an object for a row, column, and cell of data. When I started in 1964 we had a set of punch cards that added two integers. It was called the batch set; all after the marker card were known to be data. Yes I know you understand but our assignment was to see how small we could make the batch set through plug boards and economy of instructions on the cards themselves. One guy in my class got it down to ten cards, and we were all so happy for him, immediately elevating him to super human status as he had saved a few precious bytes of memory, it was very expensive. Now as I come to a close of my career I am told memory is cheap, there is no need for good code, as we can pump redundant information time after time into and endless supply of ram. Soon the hard drive will be replaced by non-volatile ram drives and processing at the speed of light will become the norm, but I ask all of you to think just a moment, how small (tight) code is very efficient and error free, well mostly error free, and very easy to debug. Quick and Dirty was never intended to address more than 64kb of memory, hence 2^16 or 65536, but it came on paper tape and was free. Now comes M$ and some very cleaver dealings and has sold Q&D nationwide with an offset that allows up to 640kb, i.e. 65536:0000. Next came the thunker and all things became possible, got memory, thunk it! Now comes Longhorn or Avalon , Titanium and 8TB of memory is available, but nothing at present will port over, nothing. Will we buy it again from M$, or do you think they will give us all a copy of M$ Office, or I.E. Explorer? Will the C++ compiler you bought last week work? No it will not, but you have learned a valuable lesson, a cheap price in some folks estimation, you understand that M$ is going to sell another few hundred billion dollars of software to you and the others in this smart mans world. So what is the point of this long winded ranting, well I think it is great that new programmers are entering the field everyday, and very bad that they have no idea of what efficient code is. I am not saying that spaghetti is bad, it’s just hard for me to pick up with my dull M$ supplied spork with only one tine. "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
I read your rant 2, 3 times, and I'm not sure what you're ranting about ? that it is the fault of microsoft, and other software and hardware providers, that the quality of novice programmer lessen ? or that microsoft by pushing new OS and tools are pressing customers to buy new hardware ?
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
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BaldwinMartin wrote: M$ X| That's a good way to lose my respect. As soon as I read that I stopped reading your post.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
I agree to a point. To me it does not show professionalism and instantly, I view the person using it as one that has fallen into the trap of the media to bash a company that is pretty much like any other company. (Lemmings might be the word here ;) ) After all, you do not see $un anywhere (or at least i have not), but they are just as bad or worse. Of course there is no way to use $bm :) Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com - Now with RSS Feed www.JokesTricksAndStuff.com www.MyQuickPoll.com - Now with RSS Feed and Prizes www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com - Again :) Me Blog
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I read your rant 2, 3 times, and I'm not sure what you're ranting about ? that it is the fault of microsoft, and other software and hardware providers, that the quality of novice programmer lessen ? or that microsoft by pushing new OS and tools are pressing customers to buy new hardware ?
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
OK and thank you, My points are: M$ is going to make it possible for everyone to code, I think that is good, what do you think? M$ is forcing us to by new compilers or be out of the game, what do you think? M$ has the habit of finding ways to make things incompatable, what do you think? M$ is a great company with many good features, what do you think? If we continue on this line everyone will be a programmer, I think thats god, what do you think? I am not against M$ at all, am a stockholder in the comapny for many many years, hope they make you but more stuff, more money for me, and isn't that what life is all about, more money for me? "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
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I agree to a point. To me it does not show professionalism and instantly, I view the person using it as one that has fallen into the trap of the media to bash a company that is pretty much like any other company. (Lemmings might be the word here ;) ) After all, you do not see $un anywhere (or at least i have not), but they are just as bad or worse. Of course there is no way to use $bm :) Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com - Now with RSS Feed www.JokesTricksAndStuff.com www.MyQuickPoll.com - Now with RSS Feed and Prizes www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com - Again :) Me Blog
Nome de plume? "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
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The Spaghetti Room is Now Open and Serving 8 Tetra-Bytes. Well everyone can now write code, this is good. How simple can it become and how many pieces crapcodes can be produced by a room of monkeys typing away 24/7 ? You will soon be able to create an object for a row, column, and cell of data. When I started in 1964 we had a set of punch cards that added two integers. It was called the batch set; all after the marker card were known to be data. Yes I know you understand but our assignment was to see how small we could make the batch set through plug boards and economy of instructions on the cards themselves. One guy in my class got it down to ten cards, and we were all so happy for him, immediately elevating him to super human status as he had saved a few precious bytes of memory, it was very expensive. Now as I come to a close of my career I am told memory is cheap, there is no need for good code, as we can pump redundant information time after time into and endless supply of ram. Soon the hard drive will be replaced by non-volatile ram drives and processing at the speed of light will become the norm, but I ask all of you to think just a moment, how small (tight) code is very efficient and error free, well mostly error free, and very easy to debug. Quick and Dirty was never intended to address more than 64kb of memory, hence 2^16 or 65536, but it came on paper tape and was free. Now comes M$ and some very cleaver dealings and has sold Q&D nationwide with an offset that allows up to 640kb, i.e. 65536:0000. Next came the thunker and all things became possible, got memory, thunk it! Now comes Longhorn or Avalon , Titanium and 8TB of memory is available, but nothing at present will port over, nothing. Will we buy it again from M$, or do you think they will give us all a copy of M$ Office, or I.E. Explorer? Will the C++ compiler you bought last week work? No it will not, but you have learned a valuable lesson, a cheap price in some folks estimation, you understand that M$ is going to sell another few hundred billion dollars of software to you and the others in this smart mans world. So what is the point of this long winded ranting, well I think it is great that new programmers are entering the field everyday, and very bad that they have no idea of what efficient code is. I am not saying that spaghetti is bad, it’s just hard for me to pick up with my dull M$ supplied spork with only one tine. "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
Longhorn isn't even beta. Microsoft have built their business, and sacrificed speed, elegance and robustness by ensuring backwards compatibility. I'd be a little surprised if they threw that all away at this stage of the game. cheers, Chris Maunder
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Longhorn isn't even beta. Microsoft have built their business, and sacrificed speed, elegance and robustness by ensuring backwards compatibility. I'd be a little surprised if they threw that all away at this stage of the game. cheers, Chris Maunder
It is so, I returned for a c64 confrence and learned all 32 will be tossed. No backwards compat. and why are you most of all suprised? I will be happy to pull the article out of respect to you and the day's when you and Brad J. were feeling yur way about, but, it will only be a matter of time until it is a well known fact. New software for everyone! Cheers "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
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The Spaghetti Room is Now Open and Serving 8 Tetra-Bytes. Well everyone can now write code, this is good. How simple can it become and how many pieces crapcodes can be produced by a room of monkeys typing away 24/7 ? You will soon be able to create an object for a row, column, and cell of data. When I started in 1964 we had a set of punch cards that added two integers. It was called the batch set; all after the marker card were known to be data. Yes I know you understand but our assignment was to see how small we could make the batch set through plug boards and economy of instructions on the cards themselves. One guy in my class got it down to ten cards, and we were all so happy for him, immediately elevating him to super human status as he had saved a few precious bytes of memory, it was very expensive. Now as I come to a close of my career I am told memory is cheap, there is no need for good code, as we can pump redundant information time after time into and endless supply of ram. Soon the hard drive will be replaced by non-volatile ram drives and processing at the speed of light will become the norm, but I ask all of you to think just a moment, how small (tight) code is very efficient and error free, well mostly error free, and very easy to debug. Quick and Dirty was never intended to address more than 64kb of memory, hence 2^16 or 65536, but it came on paper tape and was free. Now comes M$ and some very cleaver dealings and has sold Q&D nationwide with an offset that allows up to 640kb, i.e. 65536:0000. Next came the thunker and all things became possible, got memory, thunk it! Now comes Longhorn or Avalon , Titanium and 8TB of memory is available, but nothing at present will port over, nothing. Will we buy it again from M$, or do you think they will give us all a copy of M$ Office, or I.E. Explorer? Will the C++ compiler you bought last week work? No it will not, but you have learned a valuable lesson, a cheap price in some folks estimation, you understand that M$ is going to sell another few hundred billion dollars of software to you and the others in this smart mans world. So what is the point of this long winded ranting, well I think it is great that new programmers are entering the field everyday, and very bad that they have no idea of what efficient code is. I am not saying that spaghetti is bad, it’s just hard for me to pick up with my dull M$ supplied spork with only one tine. "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
BaldwinMartin wrote: Q&D nationwide with an offset that allows up to 640kb, i.e. 65536:0000. That was Intel, not Microsoft, in an attempt to keep lots of code COMPATIBLE with the newer processors. And it's FFFFF:0000. 65536=10000h BaldwinMartin wrote: I am not saying that spaghetti is bad Not to contradict your 10 card wizard, but once computers moved out of the glass room where processor cycles = $$$, lots of people were writing spaghetti code in 2K, 4K, or 8K of RAM. Ever seen spaghetti assembly code? I have. How about self-modifying horizontal interrupt code wedged into the first 256 bytes of RAM with lookup tables because the indexing is faster? I have. Even written some myself. It's easy to talk the talk, but can you walk the walk? Let's see what your code looks like! Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
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BaldwinMartin wrote: Q&D nationwide with an offset that allows up to 640kb, i.e. 65536:0000. That was Intel, not Microsoft, in an attempt to keep lots of code COMPATIBLE with the newer processors. And it's FFFFF:0000. 65536=10000h BaldwinMartin wrote: I am not saying that spaghetti is bad Not to contradict your 10 card wizard, but once computers moved out of the glass room where processor cycles = $$$, lots of people were writing spaghetti code in 2K, 4K, or 8K of RAM. Ever seen spaghetti assembly code? I have. How about self-modifying horizontal interrupt code wedged into the first 256 bytes of RAM with lookup tables because the indexing is faster? I have. Even written some myself. It's easy to talk the talk, but can you walk the walk? Let's see what your code looks like! Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
Ah ys you know of what you speak, Dr. Newcomer and I were theathing on 405's so I do well understand what we speak of.Thanks for the informed answer, but do you not think Intel and M$ spoke about offsets even in the old days of Int driven systems? Do you remember when CPU ruled? How about the IBM Strech or Dr. Wilde? "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
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The Spaghetti Room is Now Open and Serving 8 Tetra-Bytes. Well everyone can now write code, this is good. How simple can it become and how many pieces crapcodes can be produced by a room of monkeys typing away 24/7 ? You will soon be able to create an object for a row, column, and cell of data. When I started in 1964 we had a set of punch cards that added two integers. It was called the batch set; all after the marker card were known to be data. Yes I know you understand but our assignment was to see how small we could make the batch set through plug boards and economy of instructions on the cards themselves. One guy in my class got it down to ten cards, and we were all so happy for him, immediately elevating him to super human status as he had saved a few precious bytes of memory, it was very expensive. Now as I come to a close of my career I am told memory is cheap, there is no need for good code, as we can pump redundant information time after time into and endless supply of ram. Soon the hard drive will be replaced by non-volatile ram drives and processing at the speed of light will become the norm, but I ask all of you to think just a moment, how small (tight) code is very efficient and error free, well mostly error free, and very easy to debug. Quick and Dirty was never intended to address more than 64kb of memory, hence 2^16 or 65536, but it came on paper tape and was free. Now comes M$ and some very cleaver dealings and has sold Q&D nationwide with an offset that allows up to 640kb, i.e. 65536:0000. Next came the thunker and all things became possible, got memory, thunk it! Now comes Longhorn or Avalon , Titanium and 8TB of memory is available, but nothing at present will port over, nothing. Will we buy it again from M$, or do you think they will give us all a copy of M$ Office, or I.E. Explorer? Will the C++ compiler you bought last week work? No it will not, but you have learned a valuable lesson, a cheap price in some folks estimation, you understand that M$ is going to sell another few hundred billion dollars of software to you and the others in this smart mans world. So what is the point of this long winded ranting, well I think it is great that new programmers are entering the field everyday, and very bad that they have no idea of what efficient code is. I am not saying that spaghetti is bad, it’s just hard for me to pick up with my dull M$ supplied spork with only one tine. "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
Please excuse any typo's I am blind and not as fast as I once was! "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
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I agree to a point. To me it does not show professionalism and instantly, I view the person using it as one that has fallen into the trap of the media to bash a company that is pretty much like any other company. (Lemmings might be the word here ;) ) After all, you do not see $un anywhere (or at least i have not), but they are just as bad or worse. Of course there is no way to use $bm :) Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com - Now with RSS Feed www.JokesTricksAndStuff.com www.MyQuickPoll.com - Now with RSS Feed and Prizes www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com - Again :) Me Blog
Rocky Moore wrote: To me it does not show professionalism Exactly. Quite the opposite in fact.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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BaldwinMartin wrote: Q&D nationwide with an offset that allows up to 640kb, i.e. 65536:0000. That was Intel, not Microsoft, in an attempt to keep lots of code COMPATIBLE with the newer processors. And it's FFFFF:0000. 65536=10000h BaldwinMartin wrote: I am not saying that spaghetti is bad Not to contradict your 10 card wizard, but once computers moved out of the glass room where processor cycles = $$$, lots of people were writing spaghetti code in 2K, 4K, or 8K of RAM. Ever seen spaghetti assembly code? I have. How about self-modifying horizontal interrupt code wedged into the first 256 bytes of RAM with lookup tables because the indexing is faster? I have. Even written some myself. It's easy to talk the talk, but can you walk the walk? Let's see what your code looks like! Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
Marc Clifton wrote: It's easy to talk the talk, but can you walk the walk? Let's see what your code looks like! OoohhHHHooOOOO...code fight! code fight!
"Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art of all."--Andy Warhol Toasty0.com
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BaldwinMartin wrote: M$ X| That's a good way to lose my respect. As soon as I read that I stopped reading your post.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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The Spaghetti Room is Now Open and Serving 8 Tetra-Bytes. Well everyone can now write code, this is good. How simple can it become and how many pieces crapcodes can be produced by a room of monkeys typing away 24/7 ? You will soon be able to create an object for a row, column, and cell of data. When I started in 1964 we had a set of punch cards that added two integers. It was called the batch set; all after the marker card were known to be data. Yes I know you understand but our assignment was to see how small we could make the batch set through plug boards and economy of instructions on the cards themselves. One guy in my class got it down to ten cards, and we were all so happy for him, immediately elevating him to super human status as he had saved a few precious bytes of memory, it was very expensive. Now as I come to a close of my career I am told memory is cheap, there is no need for good code, as we can pump redundant information time after time into and endless supply of ram. Soon the hard drive will be replaced by non-volatile ram drives and processing at the speed of light will become the norm, but I ask all of you to think just a moment, how small (tight) code is very efficient and error free, well mostly error free, and very easy to debug. Quick and Dirty was never intended to address more than 64kb of memory, hence 2^16 or 65536, but it came on paper tape and was free. Now comes M$ and some very cleaver dealings and has sold Q&D nationwide with an offset that allows up to 640kb, i.e. 65536:0000. Next came the thunker and all things became possible, got memory, thunk it! Now comes Longhorn or Avalon , Titanium and 8TB of memory is available, but nothing at present will port over, nothing. Will we buy it again from M$, or do you think they will give us all a copy of M$ Office, or I.E. Explorer? Will the C++ compiler you bought last week work? No it will not, but you have learned a valuable lesson, a cheap price in some folks estimation, you understand that M$ is going to sell another few hundred billion dollars of software to you and the others in this smart mans world. So what is the point of this long winded ranting, well I think it is great that new programmers are entering the field everyday, and very bad that they have no idea of what efficient code is. I am not saying that spaghetti is bad, it’s just hard for me to pick up with my dull M$ supplied spork with only one tine. "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
Changing technology could be terrifying. I suppose horseless carriages (automobiles) were to folks at the turn of the century. But they did not remain backwards compatible to the technology that they replaced: They did not require reins or buggy whips. I'm sure those with vested interests were quite unhappy about that. Change itself is terrifying. Ragtime was honky-tonk music, not at all respectable. The waltz was dangerous for the youth as they might get carried away in passion. There are only two choices, as I see it. Look back or look ahead. PCs could still utilize punch cards and this site could be dedicated to COBOL and RPG. Or, we embrace the advance of technology, cast aside our buggy whips, and order another big bowl of 8TB spaghetti (I'll take two).
α.γεεκ
Fortune passes everywhere.
Duke Leto Atreides -
It is so, I returned for a c64 confrence and learned all 32 will be tossed. No backwards compat. and why are you most of all suprised? I will be happy to pull the article out of respect to you and the day's when you and Brad J. were feeling yur way about, but, it will only be a matter of time until it is a well known fact. New software for everyone! Cheers "Naked we come and bruised we go." - James Douglas Morrison Best Wishes, ez_way
They were talking rubbish then, because 64-bit Windows has already been released for the Intel Itanium family. This supports WOW64[^] for running 32-bit applications. What it doesn't offer is a way to load 32-bit modules into 64-bit processes, or vice-versa. The flat thunking scheme of Windows 9x and the generic thunking of 32-bit Windows NT, which supported 16-bit applications calling 32-bit code, are not extended. 16-bit compatibility is lost due to technical limitations - the Itanium doesn't support 16-bit x86 code at all, nor do AMD64 processors in long (64-bit OS) mode. I'm not sure if there's any plan to add software emulation capability in future versions. Virtual PC won't work at all on 64-bit systems running 64-bit Windows at present. There are special hooks to handle 16-bit installer startup programs which some 32-bit programs have used. Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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Marc Clifton wrote: It's easy to talk the talk, but can you walk the walk? Let's see what your code looks like! OoohhHHHooOOOO...code fight! code fight!
"Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art of all."--Andy Warhol Toasty0.com
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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