Interview Techniques etc
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Hi all, I am just about to embark on interviews for jobs for the first time since I graduated from university 18 months ago and I was wondering if anyone could recommend some good interview techniques, materials to take to the interview etc. Most of my recent work has been in VC++ GUI design but the jobs I am going for are in defence so I'm not sure if they'd be too impressed with the portfolio of screenshots which I have been putting together. What do you guys think? James Spibey I love the word naked, it's brilliant isn't it, 'naked'. When I was a kid I used to write the word naked on a bit of paper hundreds of times and rub my face in it - Jeff, Coupling, BBC2
James Spibey wrote: the jobs I am going for are in defence Defense programming positions require reams of paper work just to write one line of code proving that the one line of code is supposed to be there and not screw everything up. Be ready to show that you can thoroughly analyze the crap out of something (aka analysis paralysis :) until there's no other possible way that something can work besides the one million and one possible ways you've already outlined. So show that you can design and document your design/code. The DoD has lots of legacy systems and if you've got experience or knowledge integrating those systems with modern UIs then that'll be a plus. I did some DoD related work which required using CORBA (a wire protocol similar to DCOM, but more robust albeit difficult to use) to interface an MFC and DirectX based program with their servers. And last but not least don't lie on your resume. It doesn't help and will sooner or later catch up with you. If you keep up with sports, in this case specifically football, then take GA Tech's head football coach who recently was offered a position to lead Notre Dame's prestigious college football program, but past descrepencies in his resume was brought to light which caused him to resign. So now he's out of a job from both colleges and had to face public humiliation. Sorry to have ended on a negative note, but that was important to point out. Anyhow, good luck with the job search! :)
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Hi all, I am just about to embark on interviews for jobs for the first time since I graduated from university 18 months ago and I was wondering if anyone could recommend some good interview techniques, materials to take to the interview etc. Most of my recent work has been in VC++ GUI design but the jobs I am going for are in defence so I'm not sure if they'd be too impressed with the portfolio of screenshots which I have been putting together. What do you guys think? James Spibey I love the word naked, it's brilliant isn't it, 'naked'. When I was a kid I used to write the word naked on a bit of paper hundreds of times and rub my face in it - Jeff, Coupling, BBC2
Would it be worth me hassling some recruiting friends I know to write an article on interview techniques? cheers, Chris Maunder
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The #1 interview trick of all time: lie, lie, and lie. Let's face it, most employers have unrealistic expectations. Also some of them don't really know the technical stuff so there is a real chance you can get away with lying. You are just out of school, you don't stand a chance without some sort of lying. However you need to prepare technical stuff (read books, etc.) for the interview. Don't feel embarrassed if you failed to answer some technical questions becuase you will never see those people again in your life. With more and more interview, you will notice that you are getting better at answering those technical questions. "To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-bitters", who said that?
abc wrote: The #1 interview trick of all time: lie, lie, and lie. Awful advice. Wouldn't you rather start a job confident that you will keep it ? abc wrote: You are just out of school, you don't stand a chance without some sort of lying. Worse advice. Anyone who expects 4 years commercial experience from someone newly graduated is not worth working for. I got a job with NO degree, NO experience, and I told the truth. Half of the stuff they were looking for, I told my future boss I had no idea about, because it was true. abc wrote: However you need to prepare technical stuff (read books, etc.) for the interview. No you don't. If you're a programmer you need to read technical books to *do your job*. Then hopefully the contents of those books will feature in your interview, which would mean you've developed the skills they are looking for. abc wrote: "To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-bitters", who said that? John Simmons. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Would it be worth me hassling some recruiting friends I know to write an article on interview techniques? cheers, Chris Maunder
Were you looking to get more employment ads in CP ? Because that's never really happened, IMO. If it did, wouldn't that mean people who were looking for employees would be here discussing the fact ? I know some of us here are involved in the interviewing process, maybe they'd like to share some thoughts on what impresses *them* ??? Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Were you looking to get more employment ads in CP ? Because that's never really happened, IMO. If it did, wouldn't that mean people who were looking for employees would be here discussing the fact ? I know some of us here are involved in the interviewing process, maybe they'd like to share some thoughts on what impresses *them* ??? Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
****Christian Graus wrote: Were you looking to get more employment ads in CP ? If the jobs link were placed in a more prominent location and perhaps a list of newly posted jobs were displayed on the front page somewhere then more people would probably use that feature. Other source code/coding sites even charge recruiters to place job ads, so that would be another potential source of revenue if the jobs section is well done. Just my $0.02 :-D
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Were you looking to get more employment ads in CP ? Because that's never really happened, IMO. If it did, wouldn't that mean people who were looking for employees would be here discussing the fact ? I know some of us here are involved in the interviewing process, maybe they'd like to share some thoughts on what impresses *them* ??? Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
****Christian Graus wrote: Were you looking to get more employment ads in CP Ads are good (m'kay?) Actually I was thinking about it from purely as an interesting article that would hopefully promote some discussion and help those who were hit by last years rounds of layoffs. I've talked to recruiters a lot and it's so depressing to hear stories about guys and girls who are brilliant, hard working developers missing out on jobs simply becuase their interview technique sucks. cheers, Chris Maunder
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****Christian Graus wrote: Were you looking to get more employment ads in CP Ads are good (m'kay?) Actually I was thinking about it from purely as an interesting article that would hopefully promote some discussion and help those who were hit by last years rounds of layoffs. I've talked to recruiters a lot and it's so depressing to hear stories about guys and girls who are brilliant, hard working developers missing out on jobs simply becuase their interview technique sucks. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: Ads are good (m'kay?) I wasn't trying to imply otherwise - I meant that this would be a *good* thing. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Chris Maunder wrote: Ads are good (m'kay?) I wasn't trying to imply otherwise - I meant that this would be a *good* thing. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
I know - I've just been watching too much SouthPark and couldn't resist. I'm comforted to know that even if no one else in the world knows what I'm talking about, Michael Dunn still understands. cheers, Chris Maunder
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The #1 interview trick of all time: lie, lie, and lie. Let's face it, most employers have unrealistic expectations. Also some of them don't really know the technical stuff so there is a real chance you can get away with lying. You are just out of school, you don't stand a chance without some sort of lying. However you need to prepare technical stuff (read books, etc.) for the interview. Don't feel embarrassed if you failed to answer some technical questions becuase you will never see those people again in your life. With more and more interview, you will notice that you are getting better at answering those technical questions. "To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-bitters", who said that?
abc wrote: The #1 interview trick of all time: lie, lie, and lie. You couldn't lie your way out of an interview if you're talking to a developer who knows their s@#$. You'll only make yourself look like an idiot.
Todd Smith
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I know - I've just been watching too much SouthPark and couldn't resist. I'm comforted to know that even if no one else in the world knows what I'm talking about, Michael Dunn still understands. cheers, Chris Maunder
I'll vote for employment ads! Maybe even an HR forum for folks looking to hire. Having potential employers cruising the site and getting to "know" potential applicants could be a very good thing for all. Just don't tell my boss where it is:laugh:
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abc wrote: The #1 interview trick of all time: lie, lie, and lie. terribly bad advice ! But it will probably get you a job :-( abc wrote: With more and more interview, you will notice that you are getting better at answering those technical questions. Yeah, after a while you know how to control interviews when you get use to going to them. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
terribly bad advice ! But it will probably get you a job The advice may be too extreme but it has some truth in it. Even peopel with good experience and qualification lie at interviews. Sure, they can afford to tell the truth in some technical areas, but if you ask them "why do you want to leave the current position", they would give you crap about "wanting to learn the new technology and meet new challenge" instead of "I lost my temper at current job and called my boss a total idiot". ;)
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abc wrote: The #1 interview trick of all time: lie, lie, and lie. Awful advice. Wouldn't you rather start a job confident that you will keep it ? abc wrote: You are just out of school, you don't stand a chance without some sort of lying. Worse advice. Anyone who expects 4 years commercial experience from someone newly graduated is not worth working for. I got a job with NO degree, NO experience, and I told the truth. Half of the stuff they were looking for, I told my future boss I had no idea about, because it was true. abc wrote: However you need to prepare technical stuff (read books, etc.) for the interview. No you don't. If you're a programmer you need to read technical books to *do your job*. Then hopefully the contents of those books will feature in your interview, which would mean you've developed the skills they are looking for. abc wrote: "To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-bitters", who said that? John Simmons. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
"Worse advice. Anyone who expects 4 years commercial experience from someone newly graduated is not worth working for. I got a job with NO degree, NO experience, and I told the truth. Half of the stuff they were looking for, I told my future boss I had no idea about, because it was true." You are a lucky man! Your advice may not work for most people, too bad. The reality is, incompetent developers get hired by incompetent managers all the time. :((
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"Worse advice. Anyone who expects 4 years commercial experience from someone newly graduated is not worth working for. I got a job with NO degree, NO experience, and I told the truth. Half of the stuff they were looking for, I told my future boss I had no idea about, because it was true." You are a lucky man! Your advice may not work for most people, too bad. The reality is, incompetent developers get hired by incompetent managers all the time. :((
kfc wrote: You are a lucky man! Yes, I was. kfc wrote: The reality is, incompetent developers get hired by incompetent managers all the time. Yeah, but they deserve each other, don't you agree ? Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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terribly bad advice ! But it will probably get you a job The advice may be too extreme but it has some truth in it. Even peopel with good experience and qualification lie at interviews. Sure, they can afford to tell the truth in some technical areas, but if you ask them "why do you want to leave the current position", they would give you crap about "wanting to learn the new technology and meet new challenge" instead of "I lost my temper at current job and called my boss a total idiot". ;)
kfc wrote: The advice may be too extreme but it has some truth in it. Possibly the right way to say it is to embelish the truth. I do realise it means the same thing. To me, the guts of it is empolyment hiring has been been converted into a psychological profiling exercise by human resources departments. Consquentially the wrong people get the good jobs, and genius coders like Michael Dunn are left unemployed, because they don't fit into a profile. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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I'll vote for employment ads! Maybe even an HR forum for folks looking to hire. Having potential employers cruising the site and getting to "know" potential applicants could be a very good thing for all. Just don't tell my boss where it is:laugh:
Roger Wright wrote: I'll vote for employment ads! Ill second that motion, although CP isn't a democracy ! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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James Spibey wrote: I am just about to embark on interviews for jobs for the first time since I graduated from university 18 months ago... What have you been doing for the last 18 months? Sadly, not working in your chosen field is often looked at as a negative. Might want to have a well reasoned response ready.
Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
I have been working for Siemens on Airport baggage handling systems but unfortunately Osama Bin Laden has put a stop to that. I loved my job but I have been made redundant. James Spibey I love the word naked, it's brilliant isn't it, 'naked'. When I was a kid I used to write the word naked on a bit of paper hundreds of times and rub my face in it - Jeff, Coupling, BBC2
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Well, there appear to be two viewpoints on the job interview thing. The first is one I like to call 'lie, bluff and pray'. I prefer the second. :-) I only put things on my resume that I feel I know *well*, things I feel I can handle most questions on during the interview. If you put something you don't know well, although you know it a *bit*, as soon as you drop a question in the interview, they will lower their belief in everything else you stated to that level. This also leaves you the things you know marginally to mention as such during the interview, so you come out *better* than you went in. I also believe that being honest about how well you know different things shows you in a good light ( i.e. if I say I know COM really well, but I'm not too familiar with ASP, then my honesty regarding ASP adds credibility to my claims regarding COM ). I also like to ask questions that make it clear that I'm also interviewing *them* to see if I *want* to work for them. Nothing arrogant, but I do believe that the interview is a two way street, and unless I like what *I* hear, I don't want the job. I have been in interviews where I've jacked my price up during the interview as a graceful exit because it became clear that they wanted me and I did not want them. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Thanks for the advice. The only other thing I was unsure about was what sort (if any) materials you should take to the interview. Should I take examples of my work along or should I just turn up as I am? Or should I take along a conference folder with nothing in it ? James Spibey I love the word naked, it's brilliant isn't it, 'naked'. When I was a kid I used to write the word naked on a bit of paper hundreds of times and rub my face in it - Jeff, Coupling, BBC2
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Thanks for the advice. The only other thing I was unsure about was what sort (if any) materials you should take to the interview. Should I take examples of my work along or should I just turn up as I am? Or should I take along a conference folder with nothing in it ? James Spibey I love the word naked, it's brilliant isn't it, 'naked'. When I was a kid I used to write the word naked on a bit of paper hundreds of times and rub my face in it - Jeff, Coupling, BBC2
James Spibey wrote: was what sort (if any) materials you should take to the interview. It's good to take a few copies of your resume with you, they might see it before (from your email or fax) but it's not always the case so it's worth to bring along some more, just in case...
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Thanks for the advice. The only other thing I was unsure about was what sort (if any) materials you should take to the interview. Should I take examples of my work along or should I just turn up as I am? Or should I take along a conference folder with nothing in it ? James Spibey I love the word naked, it's brilliant isn't it, 'naked'. When I was a kid I used to write the word naked on a bit of paper hundreds of times and rub my face in it - Jeff, Coupling, BBC2
Copies of your resume, some of those cute little CDR's with your details labelled to them, containing examples of your most brilliant source code and a .txt of your resume details. ( any prospective employer who would run an exe of yours should not be wroked for as they are idiots ). Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now