Firefox Conclusion
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Wow, that was fun! We certainly seem to have a polarized community. Well, I learned several things from reading all your posts: 1. If I want Firefox to be useful, I have to load a bunch (20 or so?) plug-ins. It was said that Firefox isn't as bloated as IE. Ah, right. So what is it after loading 20 extensions? Not bloated? 2. That to get the "click on ^" opens a new tab, I either need to download the daily build since it isn't in the standard download, or click the middle mouse button (which I don't have) or right click and select "open in new tab, or hold down the CTRL key. Either way, additional keystrokes/mouse gestures that I don't want, or I'm using a version that isn't the official release. 3. The community is very polarized. Security seems to be the only ground on which to launch a reasonable argument. I'm not sure it's very solid ground. So, in conclusion, extensibility is great, and I understand the allure of making a lightweight browser and putting all the features that make it actually usable into extensions that you have to individually pick and choose from, download, and figure out if it's what you really want. It's attractive to the geek in all of us. I've got better things to do, though. Along those lines, the idea that "open a new window in a new tab" isn't an option in the standard download indicates the immaturity of the product. Or, how about a "don't lose tabs when exiting"? I can't find that feature either. What's the point of tabs if you can't automatically open them the next morning. Oh wait. I bet that's an extension. :rolleyes: It seems like people are happy to sacrifice functionality for the anti-Microsoft attitude. So, that's my thoughts on the matter. I'm off to downloading the latest version of Avant now. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
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I agree with you on the extensions bit, i use just plain old IE and the only "extensions" I use are flash (gotta have the SB email right?) and Google toolbar (for the obvious reasons). And as for FF extensions there isn't a single additional feature that I either don't want/need or don't already have (You can call me old fashion but I don't need or want tabbed browsing). I also have to say that IE has been almost silently improving. I have found that with all updates (especially sp2) removing the most stubborn spyware that gets embedded in IE (something that previously took me ~12 hours to get rid of) now only takes me a few seconds to disable and at most a couple minutes to remove. Matt Newman
Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots
Just a thought; Spyware shouldn't be getting onto your machine in the first place. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project
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hmmm I must be weird then, as I use FireFox as is. I think it is great, has tabs (i perfer it to multiple windows). It appears to load the sites quicker, ok so some of them are a bit mucked up but that is normally due to MS sites giving out flakey HTML code , I would go as far to say they all talk MSHTML, not HTML or XHTML. So what are these plug-ins that are a 'must have' for FireFox then?
As you point out there are no "must have" extensions for FireFox because it does a great job out of the box. But there are plenty of extensions which improve the experience even further. Nice to haves. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project
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Just a thought; Spyware shouldn't be getting onto your machine in the first place. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project
Paul Watson wrote: Just a thought; Spyware shouldn't be getting onto your machine in the first place i'm not talking about my machine, I'm talking about the machines of people who don't pay attention to what they are downloading. There is no way to stop that kind of thing. Matt Newman
Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots
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Paul Watson wrote: Just a thought; Spyware shouldn't be getting onto your machine in the first place i'm not talking about my machine, I'm talking about the machines of people who don't pay attention to what they are downloading. There is no way to stop that kind of thing. Matt Newman
Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots
Just by visiting a website with IE and not clicking on a single link, button or dialog your machine can get nailed by spyware. Doesn't happen yet with FireFox. If you mean spyware that comes with apps that people download then it has nothing to do with the browser used. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project
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Just by visiting a website with IE and not clicking on a single link, button or dialog your machine can get nailed by spyware. Doesn't happen yet with FireFox. If you mean spyware that comes with apps that people download then it has nothing to do with the browser used. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project
Paul Watson wrote: Just by visiting a website with IE and not clicking on a single link, button or dialog your machine can get nailed by spyware. Doesn't happen yet with FireFox. True enough, however I haven't seen one of these in a while (IE seems to catch these with at least a single confirmation box) and it only takes 4 clicks to get rid of it. I'm not saying IE is better in security, but it has gotten alot better. You can't deny that. Matt Newman
Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots
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Whatever works for you, Marc. It's a browser, not a religion. ;)
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "To talk of many things..."Shog9 wrote: Whatever works for you, Marc. :-D Shog9 wrote: It's a browser, not a religion. Are you sure? ;P Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
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Wow, that was fun! We certainly seem to have a polarized community. Well, I learned several things from reading all your posts: 1. If I want Firefox to be useful, I have to load a bunch (20 or so?) plug-ins. It was said that Firefox isn't as bloated as IE. Ah, right. So what is it after loading 20 extensions? Not bloated? 2. That to get the "click on ^" opens a new tab, I either need to download the daily build since it isn't in the standard download, or click the middle mouse button (which I don't have) or right click and select "open in new tab, or hold down the CTRL key. Either way, additional keystrokes/mouse gestures that I don't want, or I'm using a version that isn't the official release. 3. The community is very polarized. Security seems to be the only ground on which to launch a reasonable argument. I'm not sure it's very solid ground. So, in conclusion, extensibility is great, and I understand the allure of making a lightweight browser and putting all the features that make it actually usable into extensions that you have to individually pick and choose from, download, and figure out if it's what you really want. It's attractive to the geek in all of us. I've got better things to do, though. Along those lines, the idea that "open a new window in a new tab" isn't an option in the standard download indicates the immaturity of the product. Or, how about a "don't lose tabs when exiting"? I can't find that feature either. What's the point of tabs if you can't automatically open them the next morning. Oh wait. I bet that's an extension. :rolleyes: It seems like people are happy to sacrifice functionality for the anti-Microsoft attitude. So, that's my thoughts on the matter. I'm off to downloading the latest version of Avant now. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
i tried avant a couple of months ago, which most of the office use, but you have to go in and configure avant before it understands the web address "mt". somehow this resolves to the front page of our intranet. since it didn't work right out of the box for me i stayed put with IE. a few weeks ago i started trying firefox simply because i had been worn down by the regular news reports of yet another IE exploit that doesn't effect firefox. firefox understands "mt", so it passed the first test ;) i don't know if it is more secure, but it gets less depressing news coverage, so i feel less depressed :D now there is a benefit i can measure and appreciate :D i have grown to like the tabs, especially with a wheel mouse, but there are quite a few sites (all forums) i use where i need to use IE6 to get the full features of the forum for complex posting *sigh* if firefox improves with time then i will probably stick with it. personally i have no great religious attraction to firefox, but the better security for the win2k box at home is reassuring.
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Isn't that great? You have choice. Some of us choose FireFox, others choose Avant, yet others choose plain IE or Safari. It's nothing to get worked up over. It is just choice. >Or, how about a "don't lose tabs when exiting"? I seem to remember FireFox had this functionality built-in but I can't find it anymore. I guess they have moved it out to an extension. IMO it is not something I would choose to enable. But you do and I assume your choice, Avant, covers this option and isn't that great? regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project
Paul Watson wrote: It is just choice. You know, I was going to say that, and I forgot! Paul Watson wrote: It's nothing to get worked up over. Of course. I was just amused. I've been reading how great Firefox is, along with the various emotions that other people are conveying, so I thought I'd give it a try. The "out of box" experience wasn't very positive, but that's me. :-D Paul Watson wrote: and isn't that great? Sure is. Viva la difference! Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
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I used Avant for years but firefox made me switch. Why? Because if you've ever done any web design work you would know that IE is shockingly bad at rendering HTML. Firefox isn't perfect but it's much more 'Internet Friendly' than IE. And if it doesn't do what I need it to, someone will have written an extension to do what I need. And if they haven't, I'll write one myself. Also, the tone of your posts comes across as confrontational and superior which is not what Codeproject is about. I'm glad you enjoy using Avant, but don't feel that you are better than the rest of us for doing so. Cheers James
James Spibey wrote: Also, the tone of your posts comes across as confrontational and superior which is not what Codeproject is about. In the first post, I simply stated my initial reaction. If I added some emotional baggage, well, so what? Deal with it. In the second post, after reading through all the responses, I tried to summarize them and give my reaction. Did I offend your sensibilities? Life is about people, not a collection of generic, flat gray robots that behave in someone's concept of politically correctness. As to what CP is about, I think that it allows people to express their opinions in their own way rather than your concept of how opinions can be expressed. James Spibey wrote: but don't feel that you are better than the rest of us for doing so. I don't feel better. Where the heck do you get that I'm coming off with a "holier than thou" attitude? I was expressing my opinions in my style. If you don't like it, don't read my posts. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
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Wow, that was fun! We certainly seem to have a polarized community. Well, I learned several things from reading all your posts: 1. If I want Firefox to be useful, I have to load a bunch (20 or so?) plug-ins. It was said that Firefox isn't as bloated as IE. Ah, right. So what is it after loading 20 extensions? Not bloated? 2. That to get the "click on ^" opens a new tab, I either need to download the daily build since it isn't in the standard download, or click the middle mouse button (which I don't have) or right click and select "open in new tab, or hold down the CTRL key. Either way, additional keystrokes/mouse gestures that I don't want, or I'm using a version that isn't the official release. 3. The community is very polarized. Security seems to be the only ground on which to launch a reasonable argument. I'm not sure it's very solid ground. So, in conclusion, extensibility is great, and I understand the allure of making a lightweight browser and putting all the features that make it actually usable into extensions that you have to individually pick and choose from, download, and figure out if it's what you really want. It's attractive to the geek in all of us. I've got better things to do, though. Along those lines, the idea that "open a new window in a new tab" isn't an option in the standard download indicates the immaturity of the product. Or, how about a "don't lose tabs when exiting"? I can't find that feature either. What's the point of tabs if you can't automatically open them the next morning. Oh wait. I bet that's an extension. :rolleyes: It seems like people are happy to sacrifice functionality for the anti-Microsoft attitude. So, that's my thoughts on the matter. I'm off to downloading the latest version of Avant now. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
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:omg: They still make those? How Quaint :-D Gary While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.' - Dilbert
It's my work machine. At home, I still use a 3-button logitech (that I've had since 1995)... ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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I'm using Avant right now and I must say it seems fast but didn't seem to load Codeproject any faster. ;( Unfortunatly Avant has a bad case of featuritus. My parents would be back in IE in seconds after looking at all of those buttons. So Firefox it is for me (even though I secretly love Microsoft...shhhhh). I do love having multiple choices though: 1) IE for that old-school charm 2) Firefox for when I want to increase security and usability for the average person with the option to extend the feature set. 3) Avant when I want every feature under the sun right in front of me which I can clean up by digging though menus. So can't we all just stop evangelizing and get along? > 3. The community is very polarized. Community or fractured geek user group?
Cotter wrote: Unfortunatly Avant has a bad case of featuritus. My parents would be back in IE in seconds after looking at all of those buttons For me, Avant is too ugly. It almost looks as though it was made in the VB6 form designer. I would try to use themes for it but to remain productive I need my UIs to be consistent, so it is plain old IE6 and FF1 for me. :(
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Everybody is entitled to my opinion
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It's my work machine. At home, I still use a 3-button logitech (that I've had since 1995)... ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
I'm impressed. The longest a mouse has lasted in my household is about 1 year, then something went wrong in the wire and the computer kept thinking new hardware was being plugged in (broken wire next to the mouse body I believe). Gary While you're waiting, read the free novel we sent you. It's a Spanish story about a guy named 'Manual.' - Dilbert
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Whatever works for you, Marc. It's a browser, not a religion. ;)
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "To talk of many things..."Shog9 wrote: Whatever works for you, Marc. It's a browser, not a religion. Yeah, get over yourself, Marc.
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You forgot that it doesn't seem to block pop up ads as well as IE after xp sp2. Pesonally I purchased Opera many years ago for testing in non IE environments have been extremely happy with it. It is truly lightweight and fast.
John Cardinal wrote: You forgot that it doesn't seem to block pop up ads as well as IE after xp sp2. Hmm... I don't seem to get any unwanted pop up ads using Firefox. Just feel more confident using Firefox than IE. Jon
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Paul Watson wrote: It is just choice. You know, I was going to say that, and I forgot! Paul Watson wrote: It's nothing to get worked up over. Of course. I was just amused. I've been reading how great Firefox is, along with the various emotions that other people are conveying, so I thought I'd give it a try. The "out of box" experience wasn't very positive, but that's me. :-D Paul Watson wrote: and isn't that great? Sure is. Viva la difference! Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing
I agree that we FireFoxians can seem a tad shrill in our support of FireFox and the denouncement of I.E. For some of us I.E. has just made our development lives a good deal more frustrating than it ought to be. FireFox (and Safari) go a long way towards allowing us to provide solutions instead of fighting fires in I.E. Some seem to believe might makes right* but we all know that is not true. We simply get frustrated with the situation and FireFox has shown it can be done right. If less people used I.E. we could give you better websites and better web-applications. * That the I.E. "standard" should be The Standard and the rest should fall in line because I.E. is bigger. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project
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You forgot that it doesn't seem to block pop up ads as well as IE after xp sp2. Pesonally I purchased Opera many years ago for testing in non IE environments have been extremely happy with it. It is truly lightweight and fast.
John Cardinal wrote: You forgot that it doesn't seem to block pop up ads as well as IE after xp sp2. Oddly, that one hasn't bitten me yet. Then again, i'm not supposed to be using SP2 on my work machine yet, so it's IE+GoogleToolbar vs. FFx for me. Say, wouldn't it be great if there was a downloadable install of IE containing just the SP2 enhancements...? :rolleyes:
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "To talk of many things..." -
I agree that we FireFoxians can seem a tad shrill in our support of FireFox and the denouncement of I.E. For some of us I.E. has just made our development lives a good deal more frustrating than it ought to be. FireFox (and Safari) go a long way towards allowing us to provide solutions instead of fighting fires in I.E. Some seem to believe might makes right* but we all know that is not true. We simply get frustrated with the situation and FireFox has shown it can be done right. If less people used I.E. we could give you better websites and better web-applications. * That the I.E. "standard" should be The Standard and the rest should fall in line because I.E. is bigger. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project
Paul Watson wrote: Some seem to believe might makes right* but we all know that is not true. "Hello Paul? This is Perspective calling, it's time we had a talk." ;P We *are* talking about a web browser here right? Or is FireFox and IE being used as metaphors in this discussion.
