Out-sourcing and off-shore dev

Giles

Yep, everything you say is totally true, and it is too complex to describe the issues that may come about in a few sentences. I like having fun being a bit controversial, when everyone else is trying to summarise their thoughts in a paragraph. ;) By taking one side to the extreme someone always come back with something thoughtful. Its true though about the companies outsourcing purely for the lack of heath and safety. That really is bad for companies that like to claim they are responsible employers. Nike got caught with kids in sweatshops, and now chip firms are making people work in envirnments with nasty chemicals without telling them the dangers.

Colin Angus Mackay

Giles wrote: in the UK there is a thing called London waiting I always thought it was called "London weighting" (because the weighting of an employee in London is more than, say, the west country). Having said that. When I was looking for a new job last year I noticed that jobs in London were not paying that much more than elsewhere in the country (maybe by only 5K-10K more - which is not enough to offset the additional costs of living there)

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Giles

Colin Angus Mackay wrote: I always thought it was called "London weighting" (because the weighting of an employee in London is more than, say, the west country). :-O Ooops. Having a spelling moment. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Having said that. When I was looking for a new job last year I noticed that jobs in London were not paying that much more than elsewhere in the country (maybe by only 5K-10K more - which is not enough to offset the additional costs of living there) But they are still weighted. As well, it depends what kind of job. If you have financial experience, and strong maths then things pick up a bit.

Colin Angus Mackay

Giles wrote: If you have financial experience, and strong maths then things pick up a bit. Actually, for equivalent financial experience you can earn about the same in Edinburgh (at least if they adverts are anything to go by). And the cost of living (while the most expensive for Scotland) is very cheap compared to London.

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Giles

Colin Angus Mackay wrote: (at least if they adverts are anything to go by). If its being advertised its probably not the same kind of job. Most decent financial jobs in London all go via recruitment agencies. I can't remember the last time I worked with someone who got the job via an ad, as you don't need to. The agents steel copies of your cv when they move jobs, so they have potential candidates to phone up when they get new clients.

Colin Angus Mackay

Giles wrote: If its being advertised its probably not the same kind of job. I mean advertised on a recruitment site (like jobserve or monster or the agencies own site) Giles wrote: I can't remember the last time I worked with someone who got the job via an ad, as you don't need to True, I just went through the list of Microsoft partners.

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Giles

Colin Angus Mackay wrote: I mean advertised on a recruitment site (like jobserve or monster or the agencies own site) Many of those jobs from agencies for finance jobs are fake. Its a way of getting new cv's, nothing more. I know as my brother is an agent. Here's one of their other tricks. They phone up, and ask to be put though to the head developer or some other rubbish. They get to speak to you and say they are from FHM, and that they got your name from a cometition. You one a ticket for you and 5 mates to go to a party with ladies who don't wear many clothes and the booze is free. Now all you need to do to get the ticket is give them your full name address and job title, and those of 5 of your work colleges. Nice. ;)

Colin Angus Mackay

Giles wrote: They get to speak to you and say they are from FHM, and that they got your name from a cometition. You one a ticket for you and 5 mates to go to a party with ladies who don't wear many clothes and the booze is free. Now all you need to do to get the ticket is give them your full name address and job title, and those of 5 of your work colleges. Interesting, but since I never enter competitions I would be somewhat suspicious to begin with.

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Giles

Same here. Which is why I phoned FHM to tell them that someone was pretending to be them. As you can guess they were not very pleased. Whats funny, is that 3 weeks later they phone up again with the same story. You can have fun leading them on. "Yes, I'm a sub system nano architect.....yes my name is Egbert Longbottom, and my coworker I.P.Freely". Well, maybe not the I.P.Freely bit.

Jon Pawley

Any ethical problems with this? Me? Nope! In fact, I'm hoping to exploit it! :-D I'm heading back to the UK after several years in New Zealand, and part of the reason is to earn and save some lovely English pounds sterling. I'm in the rather fortunate position of being able to relocate anywhere in the UK, so I'm looking for the best paid job I can find, and I have the explicit intention of taking my money back to New Zealand and buying a house. (Well, putting a deposit down on a house...) Wish me luck! Jon

Jon Pawley

Colin Angus Mackay wrote: And the cost of living (while the most expensive for Scotland) is very cheap compared to London. Really? That's good to hear. I'm heading back to the UK with my Scottish partner (and my son--going to take him "home" to meet his Grandparents!),and have been looking to maybe get some work in Scotland. I had heard that while I might get better pay in Edinburgh, the cost of living there is now on a par with London. Maybe I've been misinformed. Cheers, Jon

Colin Angus Mackay

Jon Pawley wrote: I had heard that while I might get better pay in Edinburgh, the cost of living there is now on a par with London. Maybe I've been misinformed. It depends on where you want to live. I don't live in Edinburgh because I can't afford it, but I commute to Edinburgh (35 mins on the train) each day so that I can live in a larger house with a garden. To get the same in Edinburgh would cost almost twice as much. Since you have a family you probably want the larger house with a garden. Also, the salary comparison mentioned above was for the financial sector. Other sectors are fairly average (taking into account the cost of living) I don't want to put you off coming to live in Edinburgh. It is a great city to live and work in, and the cost of living is no where near as high as London. And, if your partner is working as well then the two incomes will definitely help if you want to live in the city.

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Colin Angus Mackay

Jon Pawley wrote: English pounds sterling. Didn't know such a currency existed. The currency in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland is Pounds Sterling (Notes are printed by the Bank of England, Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank of Scotland, The Clydesdale Bank, Bank of Ireland, First Trust Bank, Northern Bank and Ulster Bank) Jon Pawley wrote: so I'm looking for the best paid job I can find, and I have the explicit intention of taking my money back to New Zealand and buying a house. I hope you never meet my sister. She takes a very dim view of these things - Seeing as the Australian government wouldn't let her do that in Australia, but many many Australians do that in the UK. (I also note that you are originally from England, so maybe she won't mind so much)

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Jon Pawley

Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Didn't know such a currency existed... Sorry, should have enclosed that in my trademarked [facetious] tags ;). Lesley--my partner--would also rightly beat me up about saying that! Colin Angus Mackay wrote: I hope you never meet my sister. She takes a very dim view of these things... Hmm, sounds like she's fallen foul of the rightward-leaning Australian government. NZ's government is much more liberal. (So much so, that "civil unions" have just been legalised, giving similar legal status to gay and lesbian relationships than that afforded to marriages... anyway, that's politics... bah!). Just don't lump Kiwis in the same basket as Aussies. One nation is clearly better at cricket than the other, which is in turn is clearly better at rugby than the first. (Thankfully we know exactly where the Webb-Ellis is right now ;) .) There'd be very little point in going to work in New Zealand with the intention of taking money back to the UK... you'd hardly be able to afford a decent pint, let alone anything else, seeing as the "Pacific peso" is in the state it's in... I think that alomst brings us back to Paul's point... does it? Hmm. Don't know. Anyway, being a dual citizen of the UK and NZ, I feel totally at ease flitting between the two countries, working and living in which ever I choose. Great, eh? Cheers, Jon

Colin Angus Mackay

Jon Pawley wrote: Anyway, being a dual citizen of the UK and NZ, I feel totally at ease flitting between the two countries, working and living in which ever I choose. Great, eh? Lucky bugger. I'd love to do that. I like the Spanish working environment, but they don't earn much over there.

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Rocky Moore

Why should the cost of living dictate what you are worth? If you have a skill and they pay someone (x) amount in the US it should pay the same anywhere. If you live in an area that has a low cost of living, all the better. This is one of the largest scams placed on developers. We have skills, not locations! Those skills should pay the same regardless of where the task is performed. Developers though, have been greedy and did not care what happen to others as long as "they" made a good living. So, there has been no organizations to stop the rapid slide of wage, only stupidity to fuel it! If the developers of the world would actually unite, all would benefit and salaries would remain high for everyone. But of course, this will never happen because developers have let the large corporations con then into believing they have no value, that they should appreciate the chance to even work. What a JOKE! The developers of this world OWN tech and without them it would come to a crashing hault. .. Opps .. There I go again.. Where are all the "1" votes again :) Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com - RSS Enabled www.JokesTricksAndStuff.com www.MyQuickPoll.com Me Blogs: wdevs - MSN Spaces (new)