I'm shocked
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A few days ago someone mentioned that 12 dollars an hour was a good programmer's wage. (sorry Paul :-O ) I can't believe that anyone could even live on 12 an hour. Anyway that made me think about a couple of things. 1. Is it even ethical for a programmer to accept that low of a wage? It's like an MD earning 12 dollars/hr. It devalues the whole profession. 2. Doesn't it make your employer think you are less capable? If you go to an interview and ask for that little will the HR person even think you are capable of doing the job. I have found that many companies think that those who ask for high salaries (100k+) seem to be better than those who ask for 50K(Even though the one asking for 50K is a much better programmer. BTW I don't think degrees have too much to do with how much you get because I have met terrible programmers with Masters degrees. So my opinion is that if you don't ask for enough money you may not even get the job becuase the HR person will think you are not qualified soley because you didn't ask for more money. When I first started out I would ask for 30K/year and I had a hard time getting work. Than I just said F*** it and started asking for 80K/year, and to my surprise I started getting Job offers!!! Tell me what you think of this. :) I :love: Microsoft
Martin Marvinski wrote: I can't believe that anyone could even live on 12 an hour. That's what I live off of. Martin Marvinski wrote: When I first started out I would ask for 30K/year and I had a hard time getting work. Than I just said F*** it and started asking for 80K/year, and to my surprise I started getting Job offers!!! So that's my problem!
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"A few days ago someone mentioned that 12 dollars an hour was a good programmer's wage. (sorry Paul ) I can't believe that anyone could even live on 12 an hour. Anyway that made me think about a couple of things." There is probably no programmer in USA that makes that kind of money unless he is a student working on some poor professor's project. But I personally know some medical PhDs working for NIH (National Institute of Health, USA) who make about 20k/year, which is a lot less than $12/hour considering the long hours they have to spend in the lab everyday.
kfc wrote: There is probably no programmer in USA that makes that kind of money unless he is a student working on some poor professor's project. :(( Makes my $10/hour seem awfully small *must find the light at the end of the tunnel* Ah! I also live at home/dorms, so that cuts my expenses way down, so about the only thing I have to pay for right now is personal items and my debt. And on top of that my hours are extremely lenient, ie I may only work 1-2 hours a week while @ uni. Now that I'm transferring to a college closer to home though I expect my expenses to go up a bit, mainly in gas money. Now tack on a few nice clauses in my contract and I'm a happy camper. When I move out (after I'm finished with uni) I'm gonna need a bit more than $10/hr to compensate for my time though. I can't request anything high, but I should be able to get enough to live comfortably on :) I feel much better now :-D James Sonork ID: 100.11138 - Hasaki
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My daycare bill alone is $14,400 a year. My mortgage is $15,600 a year. I can't seem to get out of the grocery store for under $200. The cost of living is very high in the Bay Area. Cathy Life's uncertain, have dessert first!
Cathy wrote: My daycare bill alone is $14,400 a year. My mortgage is $15,600 a year. I hear you loud and clear. Daycare £16k7pa but one goes to state school in a year then it halves. Mortgage £19k8pa but only 11 years to go. No tax relief here anymore. The kids are still young so food isn't too bad. Need a second car though.
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It always depends where you live, but you knew that. I live in the Denver area of Colorado. I am a sophmore at the University of Colorado. My major is Mechanical Engineering, with an emphasis in programming. I got hired for $14/hr as an intern, with "Introduction to C++", and "Data Structures in C++" under my belt. Only 2 classes! I am passionate about programming, which makes me more valuable than most who've had only 2 classes, but I wouldn't take an internship for less. Otherwise I'd rather do what I did before; work 20 hrs a week at the golf course, make $7.00/hr and play golf 40 hrs a week. Anyway, I will ask for $50-60k per year when I graduate. Now, you look at another state, you might ask for $25k/yr when you graduate.
long offeredSalary;
if{ mySalary < 40000 }
FlipEmOff();Notice the var declaration. Are you int or long? - John --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Live in a tent, work for 2 years => live for 20 in New Zealand off what you made.
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I think for a student $20/hr is great pay for an internship. Interns aren't responsible for the final product, and don't have to be on call in case the Company needs them because school is the #1 priority. When you finally finnish school you will probably make $125K+ a year. I :love: Microsoft
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kfc wrote: There is probably no programmer in USA that makes that kind of money unless he is a student working on some poor professor's project. :(( Makes my $10/hour seem awfully small *must find the light at the end of the tunnel* Ah! I also live at home/dorms, so that cuts my expenses way down, so about the only thing I have to pay for right now is personal items and my debt. And on top of that my hours are extremely lenient, ie I may only work 1-2 hours a week while @ uni. Now that I'm transferring to a college closer to home though I expect my expenses to go up a bit, mainly in gas money. Now tack on a few nice clauses in my contract and I'm a happy camper. When I move out (after I'm finished with uni) I'm gonna need a bit more than $10/hr to compensate for my time though. I can't request anything high, but I should be able to get enough to live comfortably on :) I feel much better now :-D James Sonork ID: 100.11138 - Hasaki
Well now I kind of feel better, having read this post among the rest of the thread. I'm 19 and still live at home as well, and I make $8.60 an hour. Not in the computer profession yet, but actively studying to get there. /me sighs :| -Jason nirgle.bitdevil.com SonorkID: 100.12194
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Cathy wrote: $12 an hour = %480 a week = $25,000 a year. If we're talking US dollars, I make less. Really? And you have a wife and 2 kids? How can you survive on that little? We're actually doing pretty well. $25,000 US = $48,000 AU, thereabouts. I make AU$45,000. I clear $600 a week, and my only debts are a car loan ($75 a week) and a homeloan ($100 a week). Power/rates/etc. averages to about $80 a week. My wife also works and pays for food, so I can bank $500 a week and still buy the odd DVD. And then I get the odd article in WDJ ( still trying to crack CUJ), which puts $800 into my hand on the top. For those who did the math, the difference between $45k and $600 a week is my annual 'loyalty' bonus. Having said that, developers on the mainland of Australia generally get paid twice what I do, so it's not all roses. Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
$25,000 US = R$ 60,000 (Brazil´s local currency), it´s a lot of money over here (I think I don´t earn this in a year :(( , the dollar value here is very unstable :eek: ). Mauricio Teichmann Ritter Brazil mauricioritter@hotmail.com
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My daycare bill alone is $14,400 a year. My mortgage is $15,600 a year. I can't seem to get out of the grocery store for under $200. The cost of living is very high in the Bay Area. Cathy Life's uncertain, have dessert first!
Cathy wrote: My daycare bill alone is $14,400 a year. My god! Your yearly daycare bill alone is more than I earn in a year (converted to Rands.) Just shows that values are meaningless really when comparing salaries. You have to take into account currency and cost of living in the area you choose. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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It always depends where you live, but you knew that. I live in the Denver area of Colorado. I am a sophmore at the University of Colorado. My major is Mechanical Engineering, with an emphasis in programming. I got hired for $14/hr as an intern, with "Introduction to C++", and "Data Structures in C++" under my belt. Only 2 classes! I am passionate about programming, which makes me more valuable than most who've had only 2 classes, but I wouldn't take an internship for less. Otherwise I'd rather do what I did before; work 20 hrs a week at the golf course, make $7.00/hr and play golf 40 hrs a week. Anyway, I will ask for $50-60k per year when I graduate. Now, you look at another state, you might ask for $25k/yr when you graduate.
long offeredSalary;
if{ mySalary < 40000 }
FlipEmOff();Notice the var declaration. Are you int or long? - John --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Live in a tent, work for 2 years => live for 20 in New Zealand off what you made.
Geez, starting salaries have climbed! When I graduated with a BSEEE and two major engineering projects successfully managed to completion (on schedule and under budget), they gave me an increase to about what I make now! About half of what you'll probably get:omg: Real Programmers use Analog Computers!
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Martin Marvinski wrote: I think for a student $20/hr is great pay for an internship. Interns aren't responsible for the final product, and don't have to be on call in case the Company needs them because school is the #1 priority Most of what you said about being an intern is true, I actually finsihed a project and presented on it to my supervisors. It was a physics internship at a US gov lab, and while it did involve FORTRAN programming, I really was doing physics. That said, when I finally finish school, well, who knows... We can hope -- I graduate this May. Sincerely Yours, Brian Hart "And that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, the men are good-looking, and the children are above-average." - Garrison Keillor
It sounds like you're well on your way to a great future, Brian. Good for you! Here's to Scotland, where men are men, and the sheep are nervous...
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Only $24K a year? Where do you live, becuase I want to move there!! Is it nice? I :love: Microsoft
I'm in Los Angeles, in an area called Mar Vista (ocean view), which is odd because it doesn't have a view of the ocean. It's a few miles inland from the famous Venice Beach. --Mike-- My really out-of-date homepage He who laughs last, didn't get the punchline and is just laughing so he won't look silly. Sonork - 100.10414 AcidHelm Big fan of Alyson Hannigan.
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Martin Marvinski wrote: I think for a student $20/hr is great pay for an internship. Interns aren't responsible for the final product, and don't have to be on call in case the Company needs them because school is the #1 priority Most of what you said about being an intern is true, I actually finsihed a project and presented on it to my supervisors. It was a physics internship at a US gov lab, and while it did involve FORTRAN programming, I really was doing physics. That said, when I finally finish school, well, who knows... We can hope -- I graduate this May. Sincerely Yours, Brian Hart "And that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, the men are good-looking, and the children are above-average." - Garrison Keillor
Brian Hart wrote: FORTRAN You are a real coder ! Aim high ! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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My daycare bill alone is $14,400 a year. My mortgage is $15,600 a year. I can't seem to get out of the grocery store for under $200. The cost of living is very high in the Bay Area. Cathy Life's uncertain, have dessert first!
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"A few days ago someone mentioned that 12 dollars an hour was a good programmer's wage. (sorry Paul ) I can't believe that anyone could even live on 12 an hour. Anyway that made me think about a couple of things." There is probably no programmer in USA that makes that kind of money unless he is a student working on some poor professor's project. But I personally know some medical PhDs working for NIH (National Institute of Health, USA) who make about 20k/year, which is a lot less than $12/hour considering the long hours they have to spend in the lab everyday.
kfc wrote: There is probably no programmer in USA that makes that kind of money unless he is a student working on some poor professor's project. Haha, Shockingly, that's my situation right now. I was being paid $16.42/hour coding part-time for UCLA's Graduate School of Education. This is for doing C++, MFC, VBScript, and Active Server Pages. Well, I'm going to graduate in March, so I'm going to see what the outside world has in store for me. Frank
