Belated birthday wishes
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I believe that in Europe they use 2 voltages as well. Only numbers are 220 and 380. Just FYI. I wonder what are the numbers all over the world. I mean do most countries use 220? I thought so, but I've never seen any information about it. If this is the case I wonder why most countries have chosen 220 - it had to be some logical reason for that... And if so, why is this logical reason not accepted by US? Can you imagine DC being used though? All those people connecting wrong polarity wires to each other... Wow! :)
Konstantin Vasserman wrote: I believe that in Europe they use 2 voltages as well. Only numbers are 220 and 380. Just FYI. I wonder what are the numbers all over the world. My company sells industrial equipment all over the world and residential and industrial voltage is literally all over the map. Residential voltage generally runs from 110v to 240v, while industrial voltage usually stays between 220v and 700v, throw in variations for frequency 50hz - 60hz, the fact that voltage can vary +/- 20% during the day and all the different plug styles, it quickly becomes a nightmare.
Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: Can you imagine DC being used though? All those people connecting wrong polarity wires to each other... Wow! Worse yet, when someone muckles on to a live wire, the muscles contract. On a DC system it would be unlikely that you would ever let go! At least AC gives 60 chamces a second to let go:laugh: I just saw an ad for a 2.4GHz CPU. Since that's the same frequency as the microwave oven, I wonder how far I should sit from that thing?
Roger Wright wrote: At least AC gives 60 chamces a second to let go Well, if there is anything good about having only 110V for power it is a safety. I've been socked myself many times by 220V and I have to tell you it is not a very pleasant experience. :) One time, I think I was in 7th grade, I was doing some chemical experiment at home and I needed electricity to do it. I can’t remember what it was I was doing exactly, but the fact of the matter was that I had two wires plugged in to the wall outlet (220V) and held one in each hand. I was going to submerge them into some substance. In any case, my grandmother came behind me telling me something. I turned my head to reply and this same instance two wires had touched. I’ve seen a big flash (a huge ball of fire) and me, my chair and my grandmother fly thru the room and hit the opposite wall. Needless to say it scared the hell out of me not to mention what my poor grandma had experienced at the moment. I think I almost made it to the Darwin Awards that day. :) Roger Wright wrote: I wonder how far I should sit from that thing? Since the voltage that powers the CPU is very low (between 1 and 2 volts) I doubt it is capable of reaching a person outside of the box. :)
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I believe that in Europe they use 2 voltages as well. Only numbers are 220 and 380. Just FYI. I wonder what are the numbers all over the world. I mean do most countries use 220? I thought so, but I've never seen any information about it. If this is the case I wonder why most countries have chosen 220 - it had to be some logical reason for that... And if so, why is this logical reason not accepted by US? Can you imagine DC being used though? All those people connecting wrong polarity wires to each other... Wow! :)
Actually, 220 is somewhat safer. (let's see how much Jason remembers from college, can you tell what I majored in? :rolleyes: ) 110 volt electricity has a frequency of 60HZ, where 220 volt electricity has a frequency of 50 HZ. This doesn't sound important, even to most electronics majors, but 60HZ is very close to the same frequency that is used by the "pacemaker" portion of the human heart. This means that 110 is considerably more likely to fibrilate a heart, possibly simply stopping it. Some people will argue that 220V is capable of delivering more power, thus making it more dangerous, but in truth it only takes a couple of seconds of exposure at roughly 6-200mA to kill. (That's .006 Amps to .2 Amps, not much) So the amount of power that 220V lines can deliver is unimportant, due to the tiny amout required to be lethal. As to why the US doesn't use 220 more, we already had a large investment in 110 by the time the rest of the world was really rolling on their electric infrastructure. It was a case of the classic "but changing our infrastructure would cost too much money" argument. Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net Sonork ID 100.9918 >-------------------------------------------------< Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to one instruction that doesn't work. >-------------------------------------------------<
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Actually, 220 is somewhat safer. (let's see how much Jason remembers from college, can you tell what I majored in? :rolleyes: ) 110 volt electricity has a frequency of 60HZ, where 220 volt electricity has a frequency of 50 HZ. This doesn't sound important, even to most electronics majors, but 60HZ is very close to the same frequency that is used by the "pacemaker" portion of the human heart. This means that 110 is considerably more likely to fibrilate a heart, possibly simply stopping it. Some people will argue that 220V is capable of delivering more power, thus making it more dangerous, but in truth it only takes a couple of seconds of exposure at roughly 6-200mA to kill. (That's .006 Amps to .2 Amps, not much) So the amount of power that 220V lines can deliver is unimportant, due to the tiny amout required to be lethal. As to why the US doesn't use 220 more, we already had a large investment in 110 by the time the rest of the world was really rolling on their electric infrastructure. It was a case of the classic "but changing our infrastructure would cost too much money" argument. Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net Sonork ID 100.9918 >-------------------------------------------------< Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to one instruction that doesn't work. >-------------------------------------------------<
Jason Jystad wrote: Actually, 220 is somewhat safer. Like I said in my other post that I had been shocked a few times by 220V but never by 110V, so I can't really compare it from the personal experience. :) I am just going to believe you and stay the hell away from 110V wires. :) Jason Jystad wrote: It was a case of the classic "but changing our infrastructure would cost too much money" argument. Well, that explains it.
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: I believe that in Europe they use 2 voltages as well. Only numbers are 220 and 380. Just FYI. I wonder what are the numbers all over the world. My company sells industrial equipment all over the world and residential and industrial voltage is literally all over the map. Residential voltage generally runs from 110v to 240v, while industrial voltage usually stays between 220v and 700v, throw in variations for frequency 50hz - 60hz, the fact that voltage can vary +/- 20% during the day and all the different plug styles, it quickly becomes a nightmare.
Mike Mullikin - Sonork 100.10096 "Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." - Michael Sinz
But if we talk about residential voltages only, do you know if more countries use 220-240V or it is the other way around?
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Roger Wright wrote: At least AC gives 60 chamces a second to let go Well, if there is anything good about having only 110V for power it is a safety. I've been socked myself many times by 220V and I have to tell you it is not a very pleasant experience. :) One time, I think I was in 7th grade, I was doing some chemical experiment at home and I needed electricity to do it. I can’t remember what it was I was doing exactly, but the fact of the matter was that I had two wires plugged in to the wall outlet (220V) and held one in each hand. I was going to submerge them into some substance. In any case, my grandmother came behind me telling me something. I turned my head to reply and this same instance two wires had touched. I’ve seen a big flash (a huge ball of fire) and me, my chair and my grandmother fly thru the room and hit the opposite wall. Needless to say it scared the hell out of me not to mention what my poor grandma had experienced at the moment. I think I almost made it to the Darwin Awards that day. :) Roger Wright wrote: I wonder how far I should sit from that thing? Since the voltage that powers the CPU is very low (between 1 and 2 volts) I doubt it is capable of reaching a person outside of the box. :)
Konstantin Vasserman wrote: I’ve seen a big flash (a huge ball of fire) and me, my chair and my grandmother fly thru the room and hit the opposite wall. I did much the same when I was five or six. My dad had a woodburning pen (a soldering iron adapted for engraving wood) that I thought was cool. I had a vague notion of how it must work, so one day at my grandma's house (some family get-together) I gathered up a big nail I found in the garage and worked it into a stick. Grandma was fond of gardening, and she used a lot of telephone wire for tying up plants. So I wrapped a bunch of it around the nail, then stripped the wire end and stuck them in a socket. The lights went out:laugh: When they got them working again, I got a serious lecture from my uncle who was a teacher and therefore (they thought) knew about electricity. Turns out he didn't know as much as they thought, as I got some books at the library later and explained it to him next holiday. Why are adults always so surprised when little kids do that? Never try to con a kid - they're smarter than you are!
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Actually, 220 is somewhat safer. (let's see how much Jason remembers from college, can you tell what I majored in? :rolleyes: ) 110 volt electricity has a frequency of 60HZ, where 220 volt electricity has a frequency of 50 HZ. This doesn't sound important, even to most electronics majors, but 60HZ is very close to the same frequency that is used by the "pacemaker" portion of the human heart. This means that 110 is considerably more likely to fibrilate a heart, possibly simply stopping it. Some people will argue that 220V is capable of delivering more power, thus making it more dangerous, but in truth it only takes a couple of seconds of exposure at roughly 6-200mA to kill. (That's .006 Amps to .2 Amps, not much) So the amount of power that 220V lines can deliver is unimportant, due to the tiny amout required to be lethal. As to why the US doesn't use 220 more, we already had a large investment in 110 by the time the rest of the world was really rolling on their electric infrastructure. It was a case of the classic "but changing our infrastructure would cost too much money" argument. Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net Sonork ID 100.9918 >-------------------------------------------------< Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to one instruction that doesn't work. >-------------------------------------------------<
Jason Jystad wrote: where 220 volt electricity has a frequency of 50 HZ. In Europe the 220V is 50Hz, but ours is still 60Hz, as are the 270V, 480V, and all the other standard transmission voltages. Connecting a power source of any other frequency than 60Hz to our power grid would wreak havoc, at least until a switching station isolated it safely. The frequency must be continuously monitored and regulated to with a percent or so to avoid massive problems. One consequence of this choice is that ac motors all run at some multiple of of 1/60 second, making it easy to build a cheap clock! It's also why I laughed so hard at a customer who was pissed at me for not selling him a dimmer switch to control the speed of the fan in his cooler :laugh: One oddity I've wondered about, though, is why the Navy picked 400Hz for shipboard power. My guess is that the generators can be made smaller and lighter, which would be important for use on a small platform. But on that I'm only guessing... Or maybe they can't make the neutrons go any slower:-D
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But if we talk about residential voltages only, do you know if more countries use 220-240V or it is the other way around?
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Jason Jystad wrote: where 220 volt electricity has a frequency of 50 HZ. In Europe the 220V is 50Hz, but ours is still 60Hz, as are the 270V, 480V, and all the other standard transmission voltages. Connecting a power source of any other frequency than 60Hz to our power grid would wreak havoc, at least until a switching station isolated it safely. The frequency must be continuously monitored and regulated to with a percent or so to avoid massive problems. One consequence of this choice is that ac motors all run at some multiple of of 1/60 second, making it easy to build a cheap clock! It's also why I laughed so hard at a customer who was pissed at me for not selling him a dimmer switch to control the speed of the fan in his cooler :laugh: One oddity I've wondered about, though, is why the Navy picked 400Hz for shipboard power. My guess is that the generators can be made smaller and lighter, which would be important for use on a small platform. But on that I'm only guessing... Or maybe they can't make the neutrons go any slower:-D
Roger Wright wrote: In Europe the 220V is 50Hz, but ours is still 60Hz, as are the 270V, 480V, and all the other standard transmission voltages. You know, I had forgotten that, but now that you mention it I remember going over that in one of my analog classes. I guess what they say about memory working best when you are in the same state as when you learned something is true, after all I learned this stuff in college and I wasn't drunk when I wrote the above post. :rolleyes: Roger Wright wrote: One consequence of this choice is that ac motors all run at some multiple of of 1/60 second, making it easy to build a cheap clock! OO! I had to do one of those as a lab project in one of my analog classes. Ah, memories. :) Roger Wright wrote: One oddity I've wondered about, though, is why the Navy picked 400Hz for shipboard power. 400Hz? Really. Hmm, you know that rings a bell but I'll be damned if I can remember why. I am certain I wasn't aware of that fact, but part of my brain is telling my that I ought to know the reason they chose to use it. Guess I will have to go get liquored up and see if I can remember why then. ;) (Though I am not certain I am still capable of that sort of drunken rampage, ah the missing memories of college :laugh: ) Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net Sonork ID 100.9918 >-------------------------------------------------< Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to one instruction that doesn't work. >-------------------------------------------------<
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Jason Jystad wrote: Actually, 220 is somewhat safer. Like I said in my other post that I had been shocked a few times by 220V but never by 110V, so I can't really compare it from the personal experience. :) I am just going to believe you and stay the hell away from 110V wires. :) Jason Jystad wrote: It was a case of the classic "but changing our infrastructure would cost too much money" argument. Well, that explains it.
Konstantin Vasserman wrote: Like I said in my other post that I had been shocked a few times by 220V but never by 110V, so I can't really compare it from the personal experience. Well, during my career as a communications electronics major and over the course of my old job as a bench technician I have been shocked more times than I care to think about. I have been hit by just about every voltage and frequency you will commonly encounter and a bunch of exotic ones that I was generating for various projects. I really do not recommend 110V wall current, in addition to the 60Hz lethality problem it also just really sucks. X| I think the most powerful shock I ever caught was 25,000V off of the CRT in an old TV. :eek: My hand accidentally slipped over the high tension voltage tester I was using and contacted the lead itself. *pop* Jason is sitting across the lab isle looking extra crispy. But that still wasn't as bad as the times I have taken a hit off of US wall current. I am still here, but it was VERY unpleasant. DC shocks and AC shocks at frequencies that are not multiples of 60Hz leave you in various states of momentarily woogy and singed. The 60Hz frequencies leave you not only woogy and singed, but also with your muscles not functioning quite right for a bit. Quite unpleasant. Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net Sonork ID 100.9918 >-------------------------------------------------< Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to one instruction that doesn't work. >-------------------------------------------------<
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Konstantin Vasserman wrote: Like I said in my other post that I had been shocked a few times by 220V but never by 110V, so I can't really compare it from the personal experience. Well, during my career as a communications electronics major and over the course of my old job as a bench technician I have been shocked more times than I care to think about. I have been hit by just about every voltage and frequency you will commonly encounter and a bunch of exotic ones that I was generating for various projects. I really do not recommend 110V wall current, in addition to the 60Hz lethality problem it also just really sucks. X| I think the most powerful shock I ever caught was 25,000V off of the CRT in an old TV. :eek: My hand accidentally slipped over the high tension voltage tester I was using and contacted the lead itself. *pop* Jason is sitting across the lab isle looking extra crispy. But that still wasn't as bad as the times I have taken a hit off of US wall current. I am still here, but it was VERY unpleasant. DC shocks and AC shocks at frequencies that are not multiples of 60Hz leave you in various states of momentarily woogy and singed. The 60Hz frequencies leave you not only woogy and singed, but also with your muscles not functioning quite right for a bit. Quite unpleasant. Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net Sonork ID 100.9918 >-------------------------------------------------< Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to one instruction that doesn't work. >-------------------------------------------------<
Jason Jystad wrote: I think the most powerful shock I ever caught was 25,000V off of the CRT Yikes!!!! I had forgotten all about that one. Gads that hurts, and it takes hours for the ache to go away... I thought I was the only one dumb enough to do that :laugh: If you'd just sit down, put on this little hat, and be patient while I plug this thing in, we'll see if my invention works, dear...
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Roger Wright wrote: In Europe the 220V is 50Hz, but ours is still 60Hz, as are the 270V, 480V, and all the other standard transmission voltages. You know, I had forgotten that, but now that you mention it I remember going over that in one of my analog classes. I guess what they say about memory working best when you are in the same state as when you learned something is true, after all I learned this stuff in college and I wasn't drunk when I wrote the above post. :rolleyes: Roger Wright wrote: One consequence of this choice is that ac motors all run at some multiple of of 1/60 second, making it easy to build a cheap clock! OO! I had to do one of those as a lab project in one of my analog classes. Ah, memories. :) Roger Wright wrote: One oddity I've wondered about, though, is why the Navy picked 400Hz for shipboard power. 400Hz? Really. Hmm, you know that rings a bell but I'll be damned if I can remember why. I am certain I wasn't aware of that fact, but part of my brain is telling my that I ought to know the reason they chose to use it. Guess I will have to go get liquored up and see if I can remember why then. ;) (Though I am not certain I am still capable of that sort of drunken rampage, ah the missing memories of college :laugh: ) Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net Sonork ID 100.9918 >-------------------------------------------------< Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to one instruction that doesn't work. >-------------------------------------------------<
Jason Jystad wrote: Guess I will have to go get liquored up => Jason Jystad wrote: ah the missing memories of college ?? Could be related maybe? But I know what you mean. Sober I'm hard pressed to remember a knock-knock joke, but after about two pitchers of brew I've been known to entertain the entire pub for several hours recalling every joke that has ever soaked into my soggy noodle. Weird, ain't it? Jason Jystad wrote: a lab project in one of my analog classes. Ah, memories. Memories, indeed. I recall the motors class, which we EEs had to double up in lab with the mechanics. Terrifying experience. Alas, the day my lab partner forgot to connect the field circuit on a 25HP DC motor I was too far away to reach the disconnect. I remember that sound still, as it spun up to a decent imitation of 'c' and exploded. Unfortunately my partner was not injured and went on to graduate and, hopefully wiser, practice his profession :laugh: Never teach a pig to whistle - it wastes your time, and annoys the pig - Lazarus Long, circa 3980 AD
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Jason Jystad wrote: Guess I will have to go get liquored up => Jason Jystad wrote: ah the missing memories of college ?? Could be related maybe? But I know what you mean. Sober I'm hard pressed to remember a knock-knock joke, but after about two pitchers of brew I've been known to entertain the entire pub for several hours recalling every joke that has ever soaked into my soggy noodle. Weird, ain't it? Jason Jystad wrote: a lab project in one of my analog classes. Ah, memories. Memories, indeed. I recall the motors class, which we EEs had to double up in lab with the mechanics. Terrifying experience. Alas, the day my lab partner forgot to connect the field circuit on a 25HP DC motor I was too far away to reach the disconnect. I remember that sound still, as it spun up to a decent imitation of 'c' and exploded. Unfortunately my partner was not injured and went on to graduate and, hopefully wiser, practice his profession :laugh: Never teach a pig to whistle - it wastes your time, and annoys the pig - Lazarus Long, circa 3980 AD
Roger Wright wrote: Could be related maybe? Exactly, I have always wondered if the reason I couldn't remember as much of what I learned in college as I'd like is because I was so often inebriated. :) Actually I was rarely pissed enough to lose chunks of my memory, but I have wondered if my memory has a bunch of what I learned filed under "only available when drunk". :laugh: I guess I could test it by seeing if I could solder together a DVM, (one of my lab projects), while I am blitzed. Somehow playing with a soldering iron while drunk doesn't seem the wisest thing to do though. :laugh: Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net Sonork ID 100.9918 >-------------------------------------------------< Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to one instruction that doesn't work. >-------------------------------------------------<
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Roger Wright wrote: Could be related maybe? Exactly, I have always wondered if the reason I couldn't remember as much of what I learned in college as I'd like is because I was so often inebriated. :) Actually I was rarely pissed enough to lose chunks of my memory, but I have wondered if my memory has a bunch of what I learned filed under "only available when drunk". :laugh: I guess I could test it by seeing if I could solder together a DVM, (one of my lab projects), while I am blitzed. Somehow playing with a soldering iron while drunk doesn't seem the wisest thing to do though. :laugh: Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net Sonork ID 100.9918 >-------------------------------------------------< Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to one instruction that doesn't work. >-------------------------------------------------<
Jason Jystad wrote: Somehow playing with a soldering iron while drunk doesn't seem the wisest thing to do though. I don't know... it doesn't seem any more foolish than installing Win2K Beta3 on one's only computer - without a backup - knee walking blitzed, but I managed... And I know quite a number of folks who manage to safely fling sharp, pointy missiles at colorful circles on the wall in that state :-D I'll bet you $5 I can knock that cigarette out of your mouth from clear back here! - Famous last words at a darts match