Circumcision

[Shog9 0]

Heh... I've been tempted to recommend the process ever since, with the rational that somewhere out there a dude named Martin will be slightly more irate... :rolleyes:

Shog9

I'm not the Jack of Diamonds... I'm not the six of spades. I don't know what you thought; I'm not your astronaut...

[Dan Bennett]

JoeSox wrote: I would hate for him to desire a circumcision later in life Is that likely? Why on earth would he? :wtf:

[Megan Forbes]

Interesting, thanks David. It would be a nuisance if a whole bunch of reasons for circumcision had been posted in response here as we would have had to start our reasoning process all over again! As it is my mind has been put more at ease by the replies that we are making the right decision - hopefully time will prove this to be correct.

---

Look at the world about you and trust to your own convictions. - Ansel Adams
Meg's World - Blog Photography

[Shog9 0]

Megan Forbes wrote: Why? Was he a doctor in his spare time or something? If i remember correctly, he felt that his sex life wasn't all it could be, and blamed it on his parents' decision. Given that he was also big into Neuro-Linguistic Programming as a technique to pick up women, i have a feeling he was mistaken... X|

Shog9

I'm not the Jack of Diamonds... I'm not the six of spades. I don't know what you thought; I'm not your astronaut...

[Brit]

Ryan Roberts wrote: Its a hideous practice. Would you consider doing it if you had a daughter? (roll eyes) Female circumcision is not like male circumcision. ----------------------------------------------------- Empires Of Steel[^]

[Ryan Roberts]

Brit wrote: Female circumcision is not like male circumcision The procedure is admittedly less severe than clitordectomy, and generaly takes place at a younger age. But it remains an unnecessary mutiliation of the genitalia to conform to cultural norms. Simply because some cultural norms are more familiar(and in some countries widely adopted) to western eyes does not excuse the practice. Clitordectomy was practiced in Britain, at around the same time medical male circumscision was pioneered, for similar reasons. "It is a second error to assume that if a woman desired to continue filthy habits this operation would stop her. The organ removed is but one amongst many susceptible of intense excitement" http://www.cirp.org/library/history/medicaltimes1867/[^] Ryan.

[aplope]

We had our first son circumcised and plan to have our second son (due in about a month) circumcised. We had no real opinion on the matter with our first until our birth class instructor told us about men going through basic training having to take up to a week to recover from circumcision. Seems all the training and such led to not being able to keep the organ clean enough and getting lots of infections. So the men would then elect to have the circumcision which from what I have gathered is more traumatic later in life than it is for an infant. Plus, you can't really count on little boys having great hygenic practices. Also knew a women married to an uncircumcised man. She said she had lots of yeast infections and female issues because of her husband. :suss: Knowing what I know of this woman now, this information may be circumspect, but still might be true. Something to consider. Given the right pain medications and such, I don't believe there is any harm to the boy to have him circumcised. As for reducing sexual performance, interest, etc., I find it hard to believe from what I observe in society and my own marital relations. Good luck! Pegmeister

[Member 96]

What a wierd bunch of responses you got! Out of all the male friends I have ever had in my entire life as far as I know only one was un-circumcised and he has zero opinions on the matter. Where are all these irate people coming from, what kind of personal failings are they trying to blame on such an innocuous procedure. Here (in Canada, well in B.C. anyway) it's generally accepted that all children will be circumcised. I am and am quite happy with the results. I think the wierd rhetoric you are hearing is completely out to lunch. Some are claiming it's maiming or worse, hogwash! What a bunch of ridiculous statements. If you fail to do it you are in effect putting off what will be quick short term pain now for what he will (assuming he's enlightened) have to go through later as an adult. We have no need for our appendix either, is it maimimg a person to remove it? Speaking as a circumcised person, the thought of smegma or whatever is just disgusting, what kind of cruel parent would sentence their child to that for life? Get him circumcised, ask any doctor! The responses you got here for the most part are not based on logic, they are based on emotion only. On another topic entirely, what you really do have to watch out for is the breast feeding nazis and marketing leeches that will be all over you shortly after birth. Decide in advance about the breast feeding thing, because if your hospital is anything like our local ones you will get some crazy eyed ladies bugging the hell out of you to commit to breast feeding. They put up signs all over the maternity ward (no, the hospital and it's staff do *not* put up most of the signs you see in a hospital, it's people with axes to grind). Secondarily you will be pressured by smily marketers disguised as something else trying to get you to sign up for a lot of great free stuff for you and your baby. If you really press hard enough and for long enough you will eventually discover that what they are in effect doing is attempting to sign up your baby for a lifetime of marketing. To hard core marketers there is nothing more precious than a newborn. They firmly believe that what a child is raised on will affect them for life so they are incredibly interested in marketing directly to your baby via the mother. When weird strangers start popping in and asking how your baby is etc etc kick them the hell out immediately!!!!

[Member 96]

Ryan Roberts wrote: Its a hideous practice. Would you consider doing it if you had a daughter? Perhaps the extra skin is taking blood flow away from your brain? :)

[Brit]

Ryan Roberts wrote: The procedure is admittedly less severe than clitordectomy, and generaly takes place at a younger age. But it remains an unnecessary mutiliation of the genitalia to conform to cultural norms. Simply because some cultural norms are more familiar(and in some countries widely adopted) to western eyes does not excuse the practice. Female circumcision is opposed because it severely restricts the ability of a woman to feel pleasure during sex. As far as I've seen, male circumcision (and I did hear about a study which tried to compare circumcised and uncircumcised male's subjective experience of sex) has no significant effect on a man's pleasure. Uncircumcised males do not experience more pleasure than circumcised males and they don't, on average, climax any earlier. If you want a fair comparison, you should compare female circumcision with the rare male circumcision that goes bad. A while back, I read about a male who, through a batched circumcision, had the entire head removed. He was never able to climax during sex. I would consider that to be more comparible to female circumcision. But, that's not what male circumcision is. ----------------------------------------------------- Empires Of Steel[^]

[Paul Watson]

Spoken in a slow, deep, melodic, rythmic, chanting-like voice: No he was not. Martin was a great visionary. We must respect The Martin. No more circumcision of the world in a clipper. Must get tin foil hat. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[Paul Watson]

Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: What are the chances that an adult male is going to cut off a piece of himself from down there? Excuse my impudence but doesn't that imply you shouldn't have done it at all? Dad: Sorry son, we didn't want this to even become a choice for you some time later in life. Son: Thanks dad, I would have done it anyway, I love the look. It's all the rage along with that Prince Albert I got done. Hey, he is your kid and I don't think circumcision is particularly evil. But your logic is skewed. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[Paul Watson]

I'm no doctor but that sounds like the biggest load of wasted-forsekin I have ever heard. Please, how does one week affect the outcome? regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[Paul Watson]

My opinion? Don't. My advice? Don't listen to our opinions. There are those of us who are uncut and fine. Those of us who are uncut and not fine. Those of us who are cut and bitter. Those of use who are cut and fine. Most of us got it done or didn't get it done because our dads did or did not get it done. And their dads. And their dads all the way back to Adam. I'd find as many official, logical, rational and unbiased studies as you can and see if there is any concensus. If there is no concensus, leave well alone. But seriously, don't listen to us. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[Anna Jayne Metcalfe]

I believe that no infant should be circumcised without their informed consent unless there is an overriding medical reason to do so. Believe me you'll be doing him a favour if you defer this decision until he's 18 and let him decide for himself. :rose: Megan Forbes wrote: ...that accidents happen on babies each year which result in the child being raised as a girl (is this really possible in the 21st century?!) - obviously an unacceptable situation if true. I suspect you're referring to the case of David Reimer[^], who tragically took his own life last year, having been raised as a female after a botched circumcision operation. Although the "nurture over nature" theories of Money (the psychiatrist responsible) have been well and truly discredited now, his legacy remains...intersexed children are still routinely operated on without their consent to ensure they appear as either boys or girls. A friend of mine actually remembers going through such a procedure (at age 4) to make her appear male, but unfortunately they chose the wrong sex. She's now living quite happily as a woman, and wishes the doctors had left her alone until she was old enough to make up her own mind. Although the signs are that that early surgical intervention is likely to become less acceptable within the medical profession in time, the fact that it still happens at all is downright scary. Given that, there's no guarantee that the Reimer case couldn't happen again if inexperienced medical staff (or those unaware of current gender theories) were involved. That's a possibility which makes me shudder, as such a child is likely to endure a life of pain and torment unless they are lucky enough to find enlightened help. Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.

[Bassam Abdul Baki]

Perhaps, but like I said, I've heard more good than bad about circumsision. Is this any worse than getting your baby girl's ears pierced just because her mother likes putting earings on her? Sorry ladies, not trying to say all of you are like that. However, traditionally, it's been said that circumsizing a kid is better than not. Maybe there is very little chance of getting cancer or any disease these days with it, but it hasn't proven to have any side effects, especially since every male I know had one shortly after birth and none have ever complained about it. "For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you would never have considered. That is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebula, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence." - Q (Star Trek: The Next Generation) ^ Blog

[Paul Watson]

For hundreds of years it was recommend that you make the room of a sick person as airtight, dark and dank as possible. They believed it kept ill-humours out. Turns out they were dead wrong, literally. Masturbation made you mad, blind, deaf and dumb. Sick people were bled to within and inch of their life to get the sickness out of them. Some truth in it but largely a very bad thing to do. Tradition and hearsay is definitly not the way to go when deciding on an operation for your baby. As mentioned mistakes happen, a penis can get destroyed in the process. But maybe it does reduce cancer risks long term. Point being; Find some studies on the matter and come to a well-informed consensus rather than doing something because your dad did and his dad before him. And many males have complained bitterly about having being circumsised. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[wrykyn]

Paul Watson wrote: I'm no doctor Neither am I :) I just read some stuff about it since I promised my sister I would look into it about a year ago when she had her son. That's what the websites said. I might be slightly mistaken about the time frame though. "One of the Georges," said Psmith, "I forget which, once said that a certain number of hours' sleep a day--I cannot recall for the moment how many--made a man something, which for the time being has slipped my memory."

[David Wulff]

John Cardinal wrote: When weird strangers start popping in and asking how your baby is etc etc kick them the hell out immediately!!!! That happened to you? :-D Ok, more seriously: for 99% of uncircumcised males what you've said doesn't apply. Smegma only builds up to that extent if you have poor personal hygiene (which you will have regardless of whether you're cut or not), and in young children it is completely different to adults - what you are seeing is not smegma it is just part of the normal development of their penis. I don't have first hand comparative experience in this next bit (but I've heard from a friend who had to be circumsized at 19 for genuine medical reasons), in the same way that if you wear all day-and-night contact lenses then your eye hardens, without smegma the glans of your penis becomes less responsive to stimulus without your body's natural agents regenerating the tissue. This doesn't lead to any change in ability to experience sexual arousal, enjoyment, etc, but for certain sexual practises that focus on stimulating the glans then you are going to be loosing out on some of it. About the bit where you seem to suggest adults would need circumcision, having been cut yourself I guess you have reason to not know but the foreskin you have as a kid is not what you have as an adult - in young boys it is designed to prevent it from being 'opened' completely because all the sex stuff doesn't develop until the early stages of puberty. In time for the errections to start the foreskin will loosen and seperate. Otherwise you would have a lot of pissed off teenage boys. If it doesn't, and only if it doesn't, then there is an immediate medical need to either have it slit or removed. (In some cases it can actually harden which is dangerous, but yet again that is mostly down to poor personal hygiene.) The whole 'it is maiming' argument is pretty much completely stupid nowadays when we routinely book ourselves in for cosmetic surgeries almost on a whim. The 'it is the healthy thing to do' argument though is equally as stupid because in every case it comes down to personal preference of the families, parents and doctors. My sister had a little boy 18 months ago and was unable to find any doctor that could give her a reason for circumcision. There is no standing medical research to show that circumcision does anything but alter apperance and limit you from fully experiencing at least three of the technqiues in the Karma Sutra. Indeed increasing research is

[Paul Watson]

John Cardinal wrote: the wierd rhetoric That about sums this up... regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "