Circumcision

[Member 96]

Ryan Roberts wrote: Its a hideous practice. Would you consider doing it if you had a daughter? Perhaps the extra skin is taking blood flow away from your brain? :)

[Brit]

Ryan Roberts wrote: The procedure is admittedly less severe than clitordectomy, and generaly takes place at a younger age. But it remains an unnecessary mutiliation of the genitalia to conform to cultural norms. Simply because some cultural norms are more familiar(and in some countries widely adopted) to western eyes does not excuse the practice. Female circumcision is opposed because it severely restricts the ability of a woman to feel pleasure during sex. As far as I've seen, male circumcision (and I did hear about a study which tried to compare circumcised and uncircumcised male's subjective experience of sex) has no significant effect on a man's pleasure. Uncircumcised males do not experience more pleasure than circumcised males and they don't, on average, climax any earlier. If you want a fair comparison, you should compare female circumcision with the rare male circumcision that goes bad. A while back, I read about a male who, through a batched circumcision, had the entire head removed. He was never able to climax during sex. I would consider that to be more comparible to female circumcision. But, that's not what male circumcision is. ----------------------------------------------------- Empires Of Steel[^]

[Paul Watson]

Spoken in a slow, deep, melodic, rythmic, chanting-like voice: No he was not. Martin was a great visionary. We must respect The Martin. No more circumcision of the world in a clipper. Must get tin foil hat. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[Paul Watson]

Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: What are the chances that an adult male is going to cut off a piece of himself from down there? Excuse my impudence but doesn't that imply you shouldn't have done it at all? Dad: Sorry son, we didn't want this to even become a choice for you some time later in life. Son: Thanks dad, I would have done it anyway, I love the look. It's all the rage along with that Prince Albert I got done. Hey, he is your kid and I don't think circumcision is particularly evil. But your logic is skewed. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[Paul Watson]

I'm no doctor but that sounds like the biggest load of wasted-forsekin I have ever heard. Please, how does one week affect the outcome? regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[Paul Watson]

My opinion? Don't. My advice? Don't listen to our opinions. There are those of us who are uncut and fine. Those of us who are uncut and not fine. Those of us who are cut and bitter. Those of use who are cut and fine. Most of us got it done or didn't get it done because our dads did or did not get it done. And their dads. And their dads all the way back to Adam. I'd find as many official, logical, rational and unbiased studies as you can and see if there is any concensus. If there is no concensus, leave well alone. But seriously, don't listen to us. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[Anna Jayne Metcalfe]

I believe that no infant should be circumcised without their informed consent unless there is an overriding medical reason to do so. Believe me you'll be doing him a favour if you defer this decision until he's 18 and let him decide for himself. :rose: Megan Forbes wrote: ...that accidents happen on babies each year which result in the child being raised as a girl (is this really possible in the 21st century?!) - obviously an unacceptable situation if true. I suspect you're referring to the case of David Reimer[^], who tragically took his own life last year, having been raised as a female after a botched circumcision operation. Although the "nurture over nature" theories of Money (the psychiatrist responsible) have been well and truly discredited now, his legacy remains...intersexed children are still routinely operated on without their consent to ensure they appear as either boys or girls. A friend of mine actually remembers going through such a procedure (at age 4) to make her appear male, but unfortunately they chose the wrong sex. She's now living quite happily as a woman, and wishes the doctors had left her alone until she was old enough to make up her own mind. Although the signs are that that early surgical intervention is likely to become less acceptable within the medical profession in time, the fact that it still happens at all is downright scary. Given that, there's no guarantee that the Reimer case couldn't happen again if inexperienced medical staff (or those unaware of current gender theories) were involved. That's a possibility which makes me shudder, as such a child is likely to endure a life of pain and torment unless they are lucky enough to find enlightened help. Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.

[Bassam Abdul Baki]

Perhaps, but like I said, I've heard more good than bad about circumsision. Is this any worse than getting your baby girl's ears pierced just because her mother likes putting earings on her? Sorry ladies, not trying to say all of you are like that. However, traditionally, it's been said that circumsizing a kid is better than not. Maybe there is very little chance of getting cancer or any disease these days with it, but it hasn't proven to have any side effects, especially since every male I know had one shortly after birth and none have ever complained about it. "For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you would never have considered. That is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebula, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence." - Q (Star Trek: The Next Generation) ^ Blog

[Paul Watson]

For hundreds of years it was recommend that you make the room of a sick person as airtight, dark and dank as possible. They believed it kept ill-humours out. Turns out they were dead wrong, literally. Masturbation made you mad, blind, deaf and dumb. Sick people were bled to within and inch of their life to get the sickness out of them. Some truth in it but largely a very bad thing to do. Tradition and hearsay is definitly not the way to go when deciding on an operation for your baby. As mentioned mistakes happen, a penis can get destroyed in the process. But maybe it does reduce cancer risks long term. Point being; Find some studies on the matter and come to a well-informed consensus rather than doing something because your dad did and his dad before him. And many males have complained bitterly about having being circumsised. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[wrykyn]

Paul Watson wrote: I'm no doctor Neither am I :) I just read some stuff about it since I promised my sister I would look into it about a year ago when she had her son. That's what the websites said. I might be slightly mistaken about the time frame though. "One of the Georges," said Psmith, "I forget which, once said that a certain number of hours' sleep a day--I cannot recall for the moment how many--made a man something, which for the time being has slipped my memory."

[David Wulff]

John Cardinal wrote: When weird strangers start popping in and asking how your baby is etc etc kick them the hell out immediately!!!! That happened to you? :-D Ok, more seriously: for 99% of uncircumcised males what you've said doesn't apply. Smegma only builds up to that extent if you have poor personal hygiene (which you will have regardless of whether you're cut or not), and in young children it is completely different to adults - what you are seeing is not smegma it is just part of the normal development of their penis. I don't have first hand comparative experience in this next bit (but I've heard from a friend who had to be circumsized at 19 for genuine medical reasons), in the same way that if you wear all day-and-night contact lenses then your eye hardens, without smegma the glans of your penis becomes less responsive to stimulus without your body's natural agents regenerating the tissue. This doesn't lead to any change in ability to experience sexual arousal, enjoyment, etc, but for certain sexual practises that focus on stimulating the glans then you are going to be loosing out on some of it. About the bit where you seem to suggest adults would need circumcision, having been cut yourself I guess you have reason to not know but the foreskin you have as a kid is not what you have as an adult - in young boys it is designed to prevent it from being 'opened' completely because all the sex stuff doesn't develop until the early stages of puberty. In time for the errections to start the foreskin will loosen and seperate. Otherwise you would have a lot of pissed off teenage boys. If it doesn't, and only if it doesn't, then there is an immediate medical need to either have it slit or removed. (In some cases it can actually harden which is dangerous, but yet again that is mostly down to poor personal hygiene.) The whole 'it is maiming' argument is pretty much completely stupid nowadays when we routinely book ourselves in for cosmetic surgeries almost on a whim. The 'it is the healthy thing to do' argument though is equally as stupid because in every case it comes down to personal preference of the families, parents and doctors. My sister had a little boy 18 months ago and was unable to find any doctor that could give her a reason for circumcision. There is no standing medical research to show that circumcision does anything but alter apperance and limit you from fully experiencing at least three of the technqiues in the Karma Sutra. Indeed increasing research is

[Paul Watson]

John Cardinal wrote: the wierd rhetoric That about sums this up... regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[Ryan Roberts]

Not all female circumscision is clitordectomy, but I agree with your point. I retract "hideous", "anachronistic" or "unnecessary" would probably have been better choices. Must be the coffee. Ryan.

[Jim Crafton]

PJ Arends wrote: Martin Marvinski Hey I remember him I think! Isn't that the guy who talked about all sorts if intensely personaly stuff, things like masturbation, sex prefs, etc? ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!

[Jim Crafton]

Paul Watson wrote: And many males have complained bitterly about having being circumsised. Uhm, who exactly? Unless the operation/procedure went wrong? Aside from the possibility of a mistake, it seems like kind of a none issue to me. ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!

[Paul Watson]

Glad you asked, there are even organisations against it. MAC. DOC. NOHARMM. Barbaric practice. You can even get your foreskin reconstructed (that would make great spam). So lots of people are vocally against it. But please, I am not passionately for or against it. It's all a bit bizarre. regards, Paul Watson South Africa The Code Project Pope Pius II said "The only prescription is more cowbell. "

[Edbert P]

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I believe that infant should be circumcised without their informed consent I believe you meant shouldn't, Anna. I'm glad my parents didn't though, because I've never had problems with being uncircumcised. Edbert

[Anna Jayne Metcalfe]

Edbert P. wrote: I believe you meant shouldn't, Anna. Oops! It should have read "no infant...", but a broken <b> tag stopped it appearing. Fixed now. :-O Edbert P. wrote: I'm glad my parents didn't though, because I've never had problems with being uncircumcised. Given what happened to me in 2003, I'd have been pretty annoyed if I'd have been circumcised at birth! ; Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.

[Jorgen Sigvardsson]

Ryan Roberts wrote: On a side note - didn't Sweeden attempt to ban male circumsision recently? Bloody brave move.. Maybe they did, I never took notice. :) The current laws says that the following conditions must be met before a circumcision may be performed: * circumciser must be a legitimate doctor or a (religious) specialist * circumcisee's parents must want to perform it * circumcisee must not object (too young to speak = no objection! :mad:) * circumcisee must've been given pain killers (there's a better word than "pain killers" in this context) -- My name in Katakana is ヨルゲン. My name in German is Jörgen. My name in Mandarin/Kanji is 乔尔根 西格瓦德森. I blog too now[^]

[Jorgen Sigvardsson]

Tomaž Štih wrote: I propose you add reducing oral sexual pleasure to your argument list against circumcision. How would you know the difference if you were circumcised as a child? Unless of course... -- My name in Katakana is ヨルゲン. My name in German is Jörgen. My name in Mandarin/Kanji is 乔尔根 西格瓦德森. I blog too now[^]