Employee's Salary -vs- Consultant's Hourly Rate
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Surely a consultant is also going to want to make money to cover them for lack of job security ? I got $100 an hour from a US company once. I didn't realise I'd quoted that ( it sort of came out of a general discussion on a short term job I had done ), I never would have asked for it, nor have I asked for it again. But they paid it without blinking. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian you great idiot. :-) You are actually worth at least 100$ an hour. With coders productive capabilities vary greatly from coder to coder. Hell some coders are purely an expense to businesses. Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
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Surely a consultant is also going to want to make money to cover them for lack of job security ? I got $100 an hour from a US company once. I didn't realise I'd quoted that ( it sort of came out of a general discussion on a short term job I had done ), I never would have asked for it, nor have I asked for it again. But they paid it without blinking. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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When I was at CSC I was billed out at around $180 USD per hour at one particular client. I was a project lead. I received something like 25 an hour from that 180. The project manager was around 200-225/hour. At another client, the project was done using Forte, and because Forte was such a flaky, steaming pile of dog feces, we had to have a full time Forte consultant onsite to troubleshoot all sorts of silly problems. He was billed out at $250 USD and hour. I have always been amazed at what clients will pay :) ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Jim Crafton wrote: flaky, steaming pile of dog feces Lovely expression that. Almost made me spew my oatmeal all over the monitor. :laugh:
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Very interesting point, Tom. I guess you need to cover all bases when determining an appropriate rate. Benefits (or lack thereof) should definately play a part in this determination. -- Edward Livingston (aka ExtraLean) -- "I still maintain that seeing a nipple is far less disturbing than seeing someone get their brains blown out." -- Chris Maunder
ExtraLean wrote: Benefits (or lack thereof) should definately play a part in this determination. Absolutely. As an example, let's say you have a job offer for $100,000. Simple math shows you that very $5/hr is $10,400 per year. That's $104,000 per year. (Note that I'm referring to 40/hr weeks here as I've personally never had a contract position that was less than 40hrs). However, the two are not as equal as they look. First, the contract position has no paid vacation so (assuming only 2 weeks of vacation) you have to lose 2 weeks pay for that (~$3,800). Likewise, the employee gets sick time. Once again assuming the minimum (2 weeks), that's $3,800 of paid non-work time for the employee. I don't remember the exact numbers, but if I recall correctly medical insurance was something like $300 cheaper as an employee than as an individual policy holder. That's $3,600 per year. FICA was something like $5,000 That's something like $16,000 diff. It's been about 10 years since I truly went through and calculated everythign to the dollar and the amounts shift depending on things like length of vacation/sick time and so on, but as a general rule of thumb, I needed $20k more as a contractor than as an employee. Cheers, Tom Archer - Archer Consulting Group Programmer Trainer and Mentor and Project Management Consultant
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Get a plumber to come to your house. Charge the same rate , you'll be living well. .netter
I had a plumber visit my house just a week ago. $75 for a 40 minute visit. :rolleyes: Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] Gently arching his fishing rod back he moves the tip forward in a gentle arch releasing the line.... kersplunk [Doug Goulden] Nice sig! [Tim Deveaux on Matt Newman's sig with a quote from me]
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Great post, James! James R. Twine wrote: I assume we are really talking about contracting and not consulting here Yes, by your definition, I'm referring to contracting here... working "full-time" for a single client for short periods of time (i.e. a few months, etc. depending on the project). James R. Twine wrote: And $50/hr is rather cheap for a skilled contractor... A good all-around developer should be able to swing ~$70+ easy, and an architect-level one should be able to grab $100+ without too much trouble. I agree. Do you think geographic location plays much of a part in this in the US? Are you in the US? Would you mind sharing your general location (i.e. nearest large city)? James R. Twine wrote: IMHO, when determining an hourly rate, you also have to factor in the convenience of the employer as well(!) - not just your lack of benefits. Very interesting point! It can be very convenient for an employer to hire a contractor for various reasons, and that is certainly worth something to them (i.e. it adds value to the deal for them). -- Edward Livingston (aka ExtraLean) -- "I still maintain that seeing a nipple is far less disturbing than seeing someone get their brains blown out." -- Chris Maunder
ExtraLean wrote: Great post, James! Thanks! ExtraLean wrote: Do you think geographic location plays much of a part in this in the US? Are you in the US? Would you mind sharing your general location (i.e. nearest large city)? Absolutely! Your location often determines your cost of living (rent/mortgage, food, etc.). For example, $80K goes a lot farther in the boonies of Plainfield, CT than it does in midtown Manhattan. Other things, like state/local/sales/property taxes, also play a part, as well as availability of entertainment (if you have 20 clubs within walking distance, you may be more likely to go out and spend money both on yourself AND various dates :)). Yes, I am in the US. I was born and raised in the Lower East Side of NYC (Manhattan), and now live in Goffstown, New Hampshire. (A true "rags-to-riches" story; from Welfare to six-figures! :cool: ) My nearest cities are Manchester, NH, Concord, NH, and Boston, MA. I forgot to mention that you also have to factor in things like travel, too. If you are going to be driving 1.5 hours in traffic each way, that is worth getting a little more money just for the hassle of driving (at least, it is for me). That is why I discount rates/salary when I can work from my home office. ExtraLean wrote: Very interesting point! It can be very convenient for an employer to hire a contractor for various reasons, and that is certainly worth something to them (i.e. it adds value to the deal for them). Exactly! That is one of the reasons why contracting works. Peace! -=- James
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Hi Mike, Do you find that this value varies depending on the type of task that is required? I.e would it be closer to 2 times (versus the 1.5) when dealing with more specialized technologies? -- Edward Livingston (aka ExtraLean) -- "I still maintain that seeing a nipple is far less disturbing than seeing someone get their brains blown out." -- Chris Maunder
ExtraLean wrote: Do you find that this value varies depending on the type of task that is required? Absolutely. The last contract work I did was for a startup (shameless plug) where the devs were all C# guys, with little experience writing normal C++ apps. They hired me (after seeing my articles here! :cool: ) to port one of their C# apps to WTL and do some system design, and the rate they were willing to pay was higher than if they already knew C++ and just needed another developer to help out. --Mike-- LINKS~! Ericahist updated! | 1ClickPicGrabber | CP SearchBar v2.0.2 | C++ Forum FAQ Strange things are afoot at the U+004B U+20DD
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Christian you great idiot. :-) You are actually worth at least 100$ an hour. With coders productive capabilities vary greatly from coder to coder. Hell some coders are purely an expense to businesses. Regardz Colin J Davies The most LinkedIn CPian (that I know of anyhow) :-)
*grin* Perhaps, but in this market, how many people will realise that ? I get less than US$20 an hour at work, so I don't need to hit such heights for outside work to be lucrative for me. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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So why didn't you ask for it again if you know that there are people that will pay it? His hands felt the grasp of strong white hairs, and he knew he would not survive this fungus.
*grin* On a business level, I will make more overall by changing less and getting more work, and beyond that, I can work for a lot less and still have it worth my while. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
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Surely a consultant is also going to want to make money to cover them for lack of job security ? I got $100 an hour from a US company once. I didn't realise I'd quoted that ( it sort of came out of a general discussion on a short term job I had done ), I never would have asked for it, nor have I asked for it again. But they paid it without blinking. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Meaning that $100 was too low or too high. We had some people come in and quote us work for an MSI setup at $350 per hour! Well, we did it in house instead.
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Jim Crafton wrote: flaky, steaming pile of dog feces Lovely expression that. Almost made me spew my oatmeal all over the monitor. :laugh:
Software Zen:
delete this;There was a flaky, steaming pile of dog feces on my lawn yesterday I almost ran over with the lawn mower, could they be one and the same :omg:
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Meaning that $100 was too low or too high. We had some people come in and quote us work for an MSI setup at $350 per hour! Well, we did it in house instead.
Too high for a job where I'm doing enough work to quote an hourly rate. $350 an hour ? Man, it's nice to know there are still dreamers in the world. For building MSI's anyhow.... Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer