The Culture Of Life
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It is a fundamental basis of the Christian religion (and as far as I know all religions) that God gives us life that we may live with purpose. Has this woman been living a life of purpose for the last 15 years? I personally do not think so. Her medical condition is a result of her own actions. Was she living the life of purpose God intended for her when she puked herself into a cardiac arrest? That is not for me or anyone else to say. That is something she will have to answer for to her God. She's not my family so I cannot say whether she should be maintained on a feeding tube or not. But something I feel very strongly about is the media sensationalism. The courts have ruled, the tube has been removed. The decisions have been made. It's done. The press should allow the woman to die in peace. It is appalling. Especially how they constantly reiterate that the woman is starting to look like a concentration camp victim. Well guess what? People die daily of starvation, but we don't want to see that on the evening news, or hold protests, or petition our lawmakers. With the exception of heart attacks, violent deaths, and accidents, the big killer of most people is cancer. And people that die of cancer almost invariably look like a concentration camp victim before they die. What makes this so different? It's simple - the agendas of other people who have no real personal stake or interest other than their own. Wouldn't the world be a better place if these same people cared as much about children dying of starvation as they do about one woman who has been brain dead for 15 years? But this issue gets camera time, news coverage, and that is what these people really are all about. The media puts a slant on the story that makes it seem like no one has been in this condition since Auschwitz. The reality is that this is a natural part of the natural death of millions of people. People die like this every day. If they keep Terri Schiavo on a feeding tube for the rest of her life, chances are she'll still die looking like she was in Auschwitz. I'm glad I understand the difference between the realities of life and death, as opposed to believing it is the same as the image of this sensationalist nauseating shit the media spews at us daily. My father died a couple of years ago of spinal cancer. He was 6'1" and when he died he weighed less than 60 pounds. I saw him on Easter. The next Friday I got the call that he had slipped into a coma. (I thank God we had been able t
rwestgraham wrote: He died quietly Sunday morning, I was holding one hand, my sister was holding the other. :rose::rose: Regards,
Agni. -
How do you murder someone who is already brain dead ? Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
A little correction, she's actually not 'braindead', she's in a vegetative condition which is a world of difference. Not that I disagree that pulling the plug is the right decision. But in Denmark, braindeath is legally considered real death. The victim will not feel any difference though, as a vegetative condition means, that all the emotional and cognitive centers are dead. "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus
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It is a fundamental basis of the Christian religion (and as far as I know all religions) that God gives us life that we may live with purpose. Has this woman been living a life of purpose for the last 15 years? I personally do not think so. Her medical condition is a result of her own actions. Was she living the life of purpose God intended for her when she puked herself into a cardiac arrest? That is not for me or anyone else to say. That is something she will have to answer for to her God. She's not my family so I cannot say whether she should be maintained on a feeding tube or not. But something I feel very strongly about is the media sensationalism. The courts have ruled, the tube has been removed. The decisions have been made. It's done. The press should allow the woman to die in peace. It is appalling. Especially how they constantly reiterate that the woman is starting to look like a concentration camp victim. Well guess what? People die daily of starvation, but we don't want to see that on the evening news, or hold protests, or petition our lawmakers. With the exception of heart attacks, violent deaths, and accidents, the big killer of most people is cancer. And people that die of cancer almost invariably look like a concentration camp victim before they die. What makes this so different? It's simple - the agendas of other people who have no real personal stake or interest other than their own. Wouldn't the world be a better place if these same people cared as much about children dying of starvation as they do about one woman who has been brain dead for 15 years? But this issue gets camera time, news coverage, and that is what these people really are all about. The media puts a slant on the story that makes it seem like no one has been in this condition since Auschwitz. The reality is that this is a natural part of the natural death of millions of people. People die like this every day. If they keep Terri Schiavo on a feeding tube for the rest of her life, chances are she'll still die looking like she was in Auschwitz. I'm glad I understand the difference between the realities of life and death, as opposed to believing it is the same as the image of this sensationalist nauseating shit the media spews at us daily. My father died a couple of years ago of spinal cancer. He was 6'1" and when he died he weighed less than 60 pounds. I saw him on Easter. The next Friday I got the call that he had slipped into a coma. (I thank God we had been able t
I couldn't have said it better myself. I watch the news when I can and what shocks me the most is not what the reporters present but how they present it. This case is a family matter, regardless of the outcome. Daniel E. Blanchard
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K(arl) wrote: I thought the US justice decided it wasn't a murder? Regardless of my opinion as to whether it's murder or not, I do have the opinion that this isn't something the government should decide. This is something that we have do be guided on based on our own ethics and beliefs. Which, of course, opens up a can of worms when two people have different ethics, hence we seek "the law". What really should have happened, IMO, and what is much, much harder, is for the husband and the family to come to a concensus based on their ethics rather than seeking a court decision. If anything, that is all that the law should have demanded--that she stays on life support until the family and the husband can reach a consensus. The other question, regarding how others feel about the matter based on their own ethics, is, to some extent, immaterial. If it weren't for the media, we wouldn't know about this. I'm not saying ignorance is bliss or condones the actions of others, but I do think that part of ones code of ethics is to recognize that our personal ethics should not always be inflicted on others. We need to respect the decisions that other people make in these challenging situations. Yes, it's still a can of worms, but how strangers can have an opinion about whether it's murder or not is beyond me. Therefore, in my thinking, the decision should be reached by the people that know her and have lived close to her. The ethics of a stranger should be such that they allow for the people close to her to decide what is right, in freedom. Conversely, their decision should not be applied to anyone else. It is, I believe, a matter for the people involved to decide, not strangers. And I for one do not believe that the people involved could not reach consensus. It's difficult beyond imagining, but I think we have done a great disservice to all involved by not supporting this process. Then again, I have no idea how much effort was actually put into reaching a consensus. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Marc Clifton wrote: I do have the opinion that this isn't something the government should decide I am always suprised how "you" consider the government as something alien and oppressive when it should be the representation of the People. And what is the Law if it isn't the expression of the general will, within the limits set by the Constitution? Marc Clifton wrote: that part of ones code of ethics is to recognize that our personal ethics should not always be inflicted on others. True, our ethics are something relatives, and it is some kind of moral arrogance to try to impose our views to others. But aren't some of our moral values universal? Genocides, rapes, tortures are despisable whatever the time, location or actors. So as you also said, sometimes our personal ethics should be inflicted on others. Where's the line? Marc Clifton wrote: it weren't for the media, we wouldn't know about this True, the role of the media isn't emphasized enough. IMO, they are causing more harm than good in that case. And many are taking profit of the media circus to push their agenda or for the pleasure to be in the limelight (all sides involved). Marc Clifton wrote: The ethics of a stranger should be such that they allow for the people close to her to decide what is right, in freedom Agreed, with the limitation that at first should be considered her will, if she expressed one.
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K(arl) wrote: Or don't you respect the decisions of your judicial system? Isn't his husband his legal representant? The judge in this case is supporting euthanasia, and no I don't respect it. K(arl) wrote: did this woman expressed any will on her situation? According to her husband, yes. According to her family and childhood best friend, no - as a matter of fact she said she wouldn't want this to happen to her. K(arl) wrote: A lethal injection would be more appropriate. Nah, let's just fire up the ovens. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: According to her husband, yes. According to her family and childhood best friend, no - as a matter of fact she said she wouldn't want this to happen to her. "She said" or "she allegedly said"? :confused: I'm not very aware of the case :~ Anyway, I think that Life termination should be allowed in two cases: 1) if it is the clearly expressed and responsible will of the concerned person 2) If the vegetative state is scientifically proven and if the legal representative (husband, parents, whoever the Law decides) authorize it. We should have the right to terminate our life with dignity if we want it: we should be free to do what we want with our body. Mike Gaskey wrote: Nah, let's just fire up the ovens. That's irrelevant, rude, cruel, despisable and offensive. And you can add this line in your sig too.
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Stan Shannon wrote: Second, her family, not including the husband, felt she was capable of some responsiveness. Their concerns should have been given more credence. Every single expert who has examined her says they are NOT responses - only reflexs. How many experts must agree before the parents understand? Stan Shannon wrote: If the death is necessary than it is necessary, but it should not be minimized to make us all feel more comforable about it. Nor should it be prolonged artificially out of selfish denial and hopeless prayers. "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop believing in it." Philip K. Dick
Stan Shannon wrote If the death is necessary than it is necessary, but it should not be minimized to make us all feel more comforable about it. Mike Mullikin wrote: Nor should it be prolonged artificially out of selfish denial and hopeless prayers IMO, both points, yours and Stan's, are valid. What a harsh topic.
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Mike Mullikin wrote: name a single national revolution where a great number of people didn't put their lives and their families lives in danger East Germany, 1989 Maybe we were naive, but the risk seemed negligible. Of course we talked about the possibilities that the russians "do something". Of course, there were scary moments. Of course, this wouldn't have been possible without a few people risking their lives and their families for years before (but nowhere near the perceived and actual risk of the 3rd Reich). But that was not my question. My question was very simple, and very specific. I was not about revolutions, or people. Would you put your wife in danger, trying to save Terri? ---------------- I know of someone's father, station master at Posen, which was a major deportation transshipment station. There is no way he didn't know the cattle waggons, crowded, going only one way. He never told his family. Not a single word. I can't blame him. Do you?
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenpeterchen wrote: I can't blame him. Do you? Instinctively I would answer "yes", even if I don't know how I would have reacted in his position. There are explanations to remain silent, but explanations aren't apologies.
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You've been sucking the right-wing tit a little too long, Mikey; your brains are scrambled. Nobody is murdering Terry Schiavo. Her brain has been dead for over a decade. She's been hooked to machines to keep her alive for all that time; her husband wants to honor her wishes and let her body die. As we all do, eventually. Didja know that Tom Delay did the same thing for his dad, a few years back? No? I didn't think so; FOX hasn't mentioned that.
Jim A. Johnson wrote: Didja know that Tom Delay did the same thing for his dad, a few years back? No? I didn't think so; FOX hasn't mentioned that. Yeah, it's been mentioned in the "right-wing media". How the fuck did this become a left vs. right thing??? BW
I want pancakes! God, do you people understand every language except English?
Yo quiero pancakes. Donnez moi pancakes. Click click, bloody click pancakes!
-- Stewie Griffin -
You've been sucking the right-wing tit a little too long, Mikey; your brains are scrambled. Nobody is murdering Terry Schiavo. Her brain has been dead for over a decade. She's been hooked to machines to keep her alive for all that time; her husband wants to honor her wishes and let her body die. As we all do, eventually. Didja know that Tom Delay did the same thing for his dad, a few years back? No? I didn't think so; FOX hasn't mentioned that.
Jim A. Johnson wrote: You've been sucking the right-wing tit a little too long, Mikey; your brains are scrambled well spoken for a 70 IQ but it is neither a right nor left wing issue, unless you now have Jesse Jackson as a right winger. Jim A. Johnson wrote: Didja know that Tom Delay did the same thing for his dad, a few years back? No? I didn't think so; FOX hasn't mentioned that. yes they have. additionally I have had to make the same decision, a fact that gives me a right to speak on teh subject. In both cases the circumstances were different. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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No, it places you on par with everyone who is spoon fed by the mass media and feels the right to base an opinion on their biased drivel. Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer
Christian Graus wrote: No, it places you on par with everyone who is spoon fed by the mass media and feels the right to base an opinion on their biased drivel. hardly. This is an ignorant statement even for you, adds nothing to the discussion. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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Christian Graus wrote: No, it places you on par with everyone who is spoon fed by the mass media and feels the right to base an opinion on their biased drivel. hardly. This is an ignorant statement even for you, adds nothing to the discussion. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: This is an ignorant statement even for you, adds nothing to the discussion. So the fact that you rely on biased media for information before shooting your mouth off is irrelevant ? Or is she your sister ? Christian I have several lifelong friends that are New Yorkers but I have always gravitated toward the weirdo's. - Richard Stringer