Rich Programmer, Poor Programmer
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All I can say is: start saving. Get money taken out of your account automatically and into a managed fund or something. My rule of thumb is always have enough money put aside (working for you, but still available) so that if you lose your job tomorrow (or for some other reason are unable to generate income) you'll be OK for 3 months. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: All I can say is: start saving. It is damned hard for us procrastinators Chris. My parents never taught me all this stuff and only once I found myself in the deep end did I really start to think "crap, I had better do something." How did you start to save? What motivation or events got you saving? Or are you, and I am cringing because I think this is true, just one of those very controlled (in a good way) kind of people who do it almost automatically? To you it is obvious and no trouble at all. As I said, these books and people can give all the advice they want, it is the application of it which is the difficult bit. How do those who do it, do it? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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When you guys say, "I always end up with Zero at the end on the month", does that include or exclude the amount you put into savings. By this I mean, I always have Zero at the end of the month, but its by design, any excess cash on top of a standard sum go to my savings ? X| Further to that, I have thinking for a couple of months about buying a digital camera. I was just wondering, if it where you, would you have a problem taking money out of you the standard monthily sum you put away to fund this purchase ? Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
Ray Kinsella wrote: By this I mean, I always have Zero at the end of the month, but its by design, any excess cash on top of a standard sum go to my savings ? Well obviously if that were the case with us then we wouldn't be worrying or trying to sort ourselves out :-D I meant it as "no matter what the monthly costs, big or little, and no matter the salary, we end up with zero at the end of the month, with nothing left to save." Of course as Chris says, save first, then spend. Rather than thinking "how much will I have left to save" think "after saving what I want, how much will I have left to spend?" Ray Kinsella wrote: Further to that, I have thinking for a couple of months about buying a digital camera. I was just wondering, if it where you, would you have a problem taking money out of you the standard monthily sum you put away to fund this purchase ? Thats the weird thing. If next month I wanted a digital camera I could save the money for two months and buy it, no problem. But try and get me to save money just to put in an account... well that is a whole other ball game! regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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I have never been ruled by money. Whether I have it or not, it doesn't bother me. Several years ago I was on a sh!te salary, yet I was still saving (without trying to) at about £200/month. This was due to my lifestyle. I don't drink/smoke, and I didn't really socialise in my time off, spending my time at home (in rented accomadation) playing with my computer or watching my Jackie Chan collection. I have found that since I am being paid more now (almost 2*), I am not saving at all. I still don't drink/smoke or go out. But there is one big difference, I have a girlfiend (yes a girl fiend!). She comes with two kids. The food bills; clothes bills; Mortgage (which is not bad at all); and then her presents (she likes designer stuff - read Gucci/Armani/Cartier etc). Its the presents which are killing me off really. At the moment, I am just treading water, and thats with my yearly bonus and trading all my holidays in for cash. If I lost the girlfiend/kids, installed a paying lodger etc, I could be saving at about £15000 a year. But then love gets in the way. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
Roger Allen wrote: have never been ruled by money. Whether I have it or not, it doesn't bother me. Several years ago I was on a sh!te salary, yet I was still saving (without trying to) at about £200/month. This was due to my lifestyle. I don't drink/smoke, and I didn't really socialise in my time off, spending my time at home (in rented accomadation) playing with my computer or watching my Jackie Chan collection. Your post was sounding really good, right up until... Roger Allen wrote: I have a girlfiend (yes a girl fiend!). She comes with two kids :| It is not my place to say it, but of course I will say it anyway, she needs to learn from your obvious wisdom when it comes to handling money. Don't ditch her, just teach her. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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Michael Martin wrote: I'm hoping no job for a few months might get the penny to drop so we live within our means for once. Martin, it sounds like the only way you'll achieve this is to do what I did - burn the credit cards. OK, no sex for a month or two, but it's worth it in the long run ( I told Donna I could afford to buy plenty of sex with the money I was saving, if it came to it :-)). Sadly, it's my experience that women live in a financial fantasy land ( quomi/lauren, I obviously don't mean you :rose:, I'm generalising based on my experience of being married twice ), and there's nothing you can do unless you cut off their means to slowly screw you financially. In my case, I'm just as much a danger with credit, but at least I admit it and take steps to make sure I don't do myself any harm ( remove the credit ). Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
Man that is so true. I was digging my self into this debt hole, I mean I had so many credt cards all of the sudden, and most of my money was going out to pay them. I thought.. 25 bucks for the minimum is nothing, I can buy this toy and still pay only 30 bucks on the minimum. Finally, I was ready to buy a house (yeah crazy me, all this debt and know graduating to the big leagues). When I've got my credit report...well, it wasn't pretty. I gave my self 1 year to clean it up. I cut (yup right there) all of my credit cards (I only left 1 with a $400 credit line for emergencies, small emergencies), and I started to pay them all. All extra money to one, until is paid off, then the next, etc. Im 8 months into this, and boy does it feel good to no get any mail at your house. Before they were all bills, now only the msdn once a month (the first months I though the mail man was stealing my mail). I still have 1 card to go, but I can say that if there is a toy I want, I can probably pay cash for it and not even notice it on my account. I don't do it, but is nice to know I could. Hopefully all this hard work (yeah, not spending money is hard work) will pay off in 4 months when I walk in the bank and ask for money so that I can buy a house. Rodrigo.
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I have never been ruled by money. Whether I have it or not, it doesn't bother me. Several years ago I was on a sh!te salary, yet I was still saving (without trying to) at about £200/month. This was due to my lifestyle. I don't drink/smoke, and I didn't really socialise in my time off, spending my time at home (in rented accomadation) playing with my computer or watching my Jackie Chan collection. I have found that since I am being paid more now (almost 2*), I am not saving at all. I still don't drink/smoke or go out. But there is one big difference, I have a girlfiend (yes a girl fiend!). She comes with two kids. The food bills; clothes bills; Mortgage (which is not bad at all); and then her presents (she likes designer stuff - read Gucci/Armani/Cartier etc). Its the presents which are killing me off really. At the moment, I am just treading water, and thats with my yearly bonus and trading all my holidays in for cash. If I lost the girlfiend/kids, installed a paying lodger etc, I could be saving at about £15000 a year. But then love gets in the way. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
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I have never been ruled by money. Whether I have it or not, it doesn't bother me. Several years ago I was on a sh!te salary, yet I was still saving (without trying to) at about £200/month. This was due to my lifestyle. I don't drink/smoke, and I didn't really socialise in my time off, spending my time at home (in rented accomadation) playing with my computer or watching my Jackie Chan collection. I have found that since I am being paid more now (almost 2*), I am not saving at all. I still don't drink/smoke or go out. But there is one big difference, I have a girlfiend (yes a girl fiend!). She comes with two kids. The food bills; clothes bills; Mortgage (which is not bad at all); and then her presents (she likes designer stuff - read Gucci/Armani/Cartier etc). Its the presents which are killing me off really. At the moment, I am just treading water, and thats with my yearly bonus and trading all my holidays in for cash. If I lost the girlfiend/kids, installed a paying lodger etc, I could be saving at about £15000 a year. But then love gets in the way. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
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I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad on the way to work (I am slowly learning the art of reading in the sardine tin that is the Tube.) My third management/business/finance book in three weeks, oh no! As usual what the guy talks about makes a lot of sense, it is just actually applying it which is the hard bit. It got me curious about the rest of you and how you handled your finances. I am bad with money, nay, I am terrible with money. Money pushes me around a lot and I am getting so sick of it. I earn a good enough salary and don't have that many expenses, but I still end up with a nice fat zero at the end of every month. What really gets to me was that I can start renting a flat at R2000 per month and still end up with zero while right now I am not renting and yet I still end up with zero. That tells me that there was R2000 floating around which I somehow spent a month on nothing much really. So I have decided to get serious, and strict, about my money habits and was wondering what your situation was like. Do you live month to month? Do you have some nice investments or savings accounts? Are you banking on a retirement fund to get you through the last 30 years or so? Basically, are you smart or stupid with your money? And what can you tell me that actually works or doesn't work? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: sardine tin that is the Tube huh? Are you working overseas all of a sudden, Paul? Cheers, Simon If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in the universe of infinite possibilities, then we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that can not be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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Chris Maunder wrote: All I can say is: start saving. It is damned hard for us procrastinators Chris. My parents never taught me all this stuff and only once I found myself in the deep end did I really start to think "crap, I had better do something." How did you start to save? What motivation or events got you saving? Or are you, and I am cringing because I think this is true, just one of those very controlled (in a good way) kind of people who do it almost automatically? To you it is obvious and no trouble at all. As I said, these books and people can give all the advice they want, it is the application of it which is the difficult bit. How do those who do it, do it? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Saving is just one of those things I was brought up to do. My mum works for a bank so she always gave me a hard time if I didn't save. I probably wouldn't have a private pension if it wasn't for her constant lectures on the importance of having one. Chris is right, you save the money at the beginning of the month and then you aren't tempted to spend it. I know roughly how much my bills will be for the month, I then allow myself a little "pocket money" and the rest is then transferred to the savings account. Michael :-)
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I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad on the way to work (I am slowly learning the art of reading in the sardine tin that is the Tube.) My third management/business/finance book in three weeks, oh no! As usual what the guy talks about makes a lot of sense, it is just actually applying it which is the hard bit. It got me curious about the rest of you and how you handled your finances. I am bad with money, nay, I am terrible with money. Money pushes me around a lot and I am getting so sick of it. I earn a good enough salary and don't have that many expenses, but I still end up with a nice fat zero at the end of every month. What really gets to me was that I can start renting a flat at R2000 per month and still end up with zero while right now I am not renting and yet I still end up with zero. That tells me that there was R2000 floating around which I somehow spent a month on nothing much really. So I have decided to get serious, and strict, about my money habits and was wondering what your situation was like. Do you live month to month? Do you have some nice investments or savings accounts? Are you banking on a retirement fund to get you through the last 30 years or so? Basically, are you smart or stupid with your money? And what can you tell me that actually works or doesn't work? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: Do you live month to month? Not now - but then again I've been working full-time for less than a month :) But, I'll be damned if I spend the rest of my life desparately waiting for that next paycheck. There's no guaruntee that it will come, but there is a guaruntee that you're utterly screwed without it and that you'll need to work long past retirement age. The best way to figure out where your money is going: Go through two months and only use a credit card or debit card (easier said than done if you're not in America). This way, at the end of the month you get to see in excruciating detail exactly what you spend, where you spent it, and how much the $3 here and $2 there actually adds up to over the course of a month. Of course, don't forget to pay the credit card bill in full :) If that's not possible, though, I'd suggest taking a chunk of money out at the beginning of every week and only spending that, while saving the receipts of everything you buy. Then at the end of the week total up you're receipts and look at where your money is going. Doing this, I realized I was spending an extra $80 a month by getting a latte everyday. I reclaimed about $40 a month by foregoing to latte for a plain coffee... Whatever you do, make sure you can save alot of money over the next 20 or 30 years so that, when retirement age comes, you can actually spend each and every day relaxed and doing what you want to do :) -- Russell Morris AFLAC Software Research Center "WOW! Chocolate - half price!" - Homer Simpson, while in the land of chocolate.
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xicoloko wrote: Leave your girlfriend Although this is an option (I have thought about it). I don't know if it will ever happen. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
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I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad on the way to work (I am slowly learning the art of reading in the sardine tin that is the Tube.) My third management/business/finance book in three weeks, oh no! As usual what the guy talks about makes a lot of sense, it is just actually applying it which is the hard bit. It got me curious about the rest of you and how you handled your finances. I am bad with money, nay, I am terrible with money. Money pushes me around a lot and I am getting so sick of it. I earn a good enough salary and don't have that many expenses, but I still end up with a nice fat zero at the end of every month. What really gets to me was that I can start renting a flat at R2000 per month and still end up with zero while right now I am not renting and yet I still end up with zero. That tells me that there was R2000 floating around which I somehow spent a month on nothing much really. So I have decided to get serious, and strict, about my money habits and was wondering what your situation was like. Do you live month to month? Do you have some nice investments or savings accounts? Are you banking on a retirement fund to get you through the last 30 years or so? Basically, are you smart or stupid with your money? And what can you tell me that actually works or doesn't work? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
One of the best tricks I've heard of for avoiding the credit card overspending if you're an impulse buyer is to stick it in a tub of water in the freezer. You still have a credit card, but there is no way you're ever going to be able to use it on a whim!
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Why not just get a second job: there's nothing better than having parallel-jobs/experience on your CV. :-D Or just outsource your kids to the nearest Nike factory... Cheers, Simon I don't get paid to be intelligent.
simons wrote: Why not just get a second job I have tried to convice her to let me do this (An easy job like a checkout assistant at weekends etc), but she says she doesn't see enough of me already. simons wrote: Or just outsource your kids to the nearest Nike factory... Not sure where the nearest one is. But I'll look into it. simons wrote: I don't get paid to be intelligent But are you intelligent? ;P Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
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simons wrote: Why not just get a second job I have tried to convice her to let me do this (An easy job like a checkout assistant at weekends etc), but she says she doesn't see enough of me already. simons wrote: Or just outsource your kids to the nearest Nike factory... Not sure where the nearest one is. But I'll look into it. simons wrote: I don't get paid to be intelligent But are you intelligent? ;P Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
Roger Allen wrote: but she says she doesn't see enough of me Are you able to do code work from home? Roger Allen wrote: But are you intelligent? Touche...Sometimes when I look at the choices I make, I wonder... :mad: :omg: :( Cheers, Simon If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in the universe of infinite possibilities, then we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that can not be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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xicoloko wrote: Leave your girlfriend Although this is an option (I have thought about it). I don't know if it will ever happen. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
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I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad on the way to work (I am slowly learning the art of reading in the sardine tin that is the Tube.) My third management/business/finance book in three weeks, oh no! As usual what the guy talks about makes a lot of sense, it is just actually applying it which is the hard bit. It got me curious about the rest of you and how you handled your finances. I am bad with money, nay, I am terrible with money. Money pushes me around a lot and I am getting so sick of it. I earn a good enough salary and don't have that many expenses, but I still end up with a nice fat zero at the end of every month. What really gets to me was that I can start renting a flat at R2000 per month and still end up with zero while right now I am not renting and yet I still end up with zero. That tells me that there was R2000 floating around which I somehow spent a month on nothing much really. So I have decided to get serious, and strict, about my money habits and was wondering what your situation was like. Do you live month to month? Do you have some nice investments or savings accounts? Are you banking on a retirement fund to get you through the last 30 years or so? Basically, are you smart or stupid with your money? And what can you tell me that actually works or doesn't work? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Currently, I live paycheck to paycheck which is very sad because i am well paid. When I was single 3 years ago I made alot less and had much more money than I do now. Since getting married, having 2 kids, buying a house, 2 cars and acquiring ~40k in medical bills I have managed to go from 9 months of paychecks in the bank to 0. On a positive note, however, my wife and I have starting saving a little each month again. We put it into an "Add-on-CD" so we can't touch it. Starting small can be so hard to do. We have cut up all of our credit cards except the AMEX which we must pay back at the end of each month. And YES, I am TERRIBLE with money. Giving me a credit card is like giving a sucidal man a loaded gun. My wife is actually better with the credit cards than I am. She is just deadly with a checkbook. She seems to have problems understanding that paycheck - (paycheck+2) is not a good formula for success. Matt Gullett
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Paul Watson wrote: sardine tin that is the Tube huh? Are you working overseas all of a sudden, Paul? Cheers, Simon If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in the universe of infinite possibilities, then we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that can not be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
simons wrote: huh? Are you working overseas all of a sudden, Paul? Just out here in London for a month on some new projects. Going back on the 3rd of Feb. To All Londoners, how the hell do you live in this dismal city? :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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Chris Maunder wrote: All I can say is: start saving. It is damned hard for us procrastinators Chris. My parents never taught me all this stuff and only once I found myself in the deep end did I really start to think "crap, I had better do something." How did you start to save? What motivation or events got you saving? Or are you, and I am cringing because I think this is true, just one of those very controlled (in a good way) kind of people who do it almost automatically? To you it is obvious and no trouble at all. As I said, these books and people can give all the advice they want, it is the application of it which is the difficult bit. How do those who do it, do it? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul Watson wrote: How did you start to save? What motivation or events got you saving? Reason #1: I never had any money and I hate scrounging. Reason #2: About 8 years ago I was cruising along like everyone else and not really enjoying my job (hydrological research). For some reason I was reading a .plan from one of the ID software guys and he had just packed up and left his job and was kicking around looking for something to do next. It was he who said it: 'always have 3-6 months survival money so that you always know in the back of your mind that you can get up and walk out of whatever job you're in' (or something like that). Basically he was saying that you should never be dependant on your job. It may be gone tomorrow, but even beyond that, never let your job own you (financially). Reason #3: When I left my job to start CodeProject, insurance agencies refused to give me income insurance and I couldn't afford health insurance. Basically I had to insure (and trust in) myself. cheers, Chris Maunder
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simons wrote: huh? Are you working overseas all of a sudden, Paul? Just out here in London for a month on some new projects. Going back on the 3rd of Feb. To All Londoners, how the hell do you live in this dismal city? :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad on the way to work (I am slowly learning the art of reading in the sardine tin that is the Tube.) My third management/business/finance book in three weeks, oh no! As usual what the guy talks about makes a lot of sense, it is just actually applying it which is the hard bit. It got me curious about the rest of you and how you handled your finances. I am bad with money, nay, I am terrible with money. Money pushes me around a lot and I am getting so sick of it. I earn a good enough salary and don't have that many expenses, but I still end up with a nice fat zero at the end of every month. What really gets to me was that I can start renting a flat at R2000 per month and still end up with zero while right now I am not renting and yet I still end up with zero. That tells me that there was R2000 floating around which I somehow spent a month on nothing much really. So I have decided to get serious, and strict, about my money habits and was wondering what your situation was like. Do you live month to month? Do you have some nice investments or savings accounts? Are you banking on a retirement fund to get you through the last 30 years or so? Basically, are you smart or stupid with your money? And what can you tell me that actually works or doesn't work? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
I think I am reasonably smart with my money. I agree with the general trend of start and save something. It does add up. Also split were the savings go. In corporate USA I place the bulk of retirement savings into my companies 401K tax deferred plan now at the max allowed of 8%. It started smaller 2% but then each year I would raise it with any salary adjustment. I never noticed the increase in my savings. Secondly I have an external taxed fund that I now put $100 a month in. I deliberately had any direct access not activated so I would have to go through the funds advisor to get to it. I still can but it takes 5 days. Lastly I have a short-term savings (poorer interest) but I can get to the money by driving to the banks ATM, medical, major purchases, etc. It is not in my checking account so it is a deliberate decision to get to it. All of the above are automatic deductions. It appears to work. This last year I purchased 2 cars (one for my daughter and one for my wife) and paid cash for both.
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I have never been ruled by money. Whether I have it or not, it doesn't bother me. Several years ago I was on a sh!te salary, yet I was still saving (without trying to) at about £200/month. This was due to my lifestyle. I don't drink/smoke, and I didn't really socialise in my time off, spending my time at home (in rented accomadation) playing with my computer or watching my Jackie Chan collection. I have found that since I am being paid more now (almost 2*), I am not saving at all. I still don't drink/smoke or go out. But there is one big difference, I have a girlfiend (yes a girl fiend!). She comes with two kids. The food bills; clothes bills; Mortgage (which is not bad at all); and then her presents (she likes designer stuff - read Gucci/Armani/Cartier etc). Its the presents which are killing me off really. At the moment, I am just treading water, and thats with my yearly bonus and trading all my holidays in for cash. If I lost the girlfiend/kids, installed a paying lodger etc, I could be saving at about £15000 a year. But then love gets in the way. Roger Allen Sonork 100.10016 If I'm not breathing, I'm either dead or holding my breath.
Roger Allen wrote: £15000 That's about $45,000 Oz. :omg: Us guys do some damn stupid things for :love: (but I admire you nonetheless ;)) cheers, Chris Maunder