don't read, for you may not feel so well afterwards
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Basicaly we both want the same thing ("surprisingly", no one want monsters like that to walk free), which can be achived by death penalty or life-long jail. I say we don't have right to kill. That's the first time I hear about ACLU. Anonymous wrote: that locking sex offenders up forever is "cruel and unusual" and they will end up getting released to molest and kill again. So, kill them with lethal injection or someting is not "cruel or unusual"? oh please... Again, I'd like to see survey how many prisoners would prefer death sentence against life-long jail... (It would be morbid survey, I know). Maybe I am comletely wrong? I don't know, we don't have death penalty here... and IMHO level of violence is not worse then in USA, but that's just my opinion not based on facts. Anonymous wrote: When they do kill, those who oppose the death penalty becuase it is imperfect Again and again, I don't say release them... but I say don't kill them. yes I am awared it brings some problems too... David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidydnh wrote: That's the first time I hear about ACLU. American Civil Liberties Union - basically an organization of socialist lawyers dedicated to subverting the legal system to achieve a more leftist social order - all in the guise of defending the constitution (which they could care less about) dnh wrote: So, kill them with lethal injection or someting is not "cruel or unusual"? oh please... Again, I'd like to see survey how many prisoners would prefer death sentence against life-long jail... (It would be morbid survey, I know). Maybe I am comletely wrong? I don't know, we don't have death penalty here... and IMHO level of violence is not worse then in USA, but that's just my opinion not based on facts. A lifetime in prison would be more cruel than a quick death with a needle. I know which I would prefer. But lawyers in organizations such as the ACLU can mkae the most modest forms of punhishment seem like a soviet gulag and have a lot of money and power backing them up to fight their cause. Any prisoner given a life sentence always has a very real hope of being released at some point. dnh wrote: Again and again, I don't say release them Yet they always seem to get released. If those who fight against the death penalty would fight just as hard to prevent very dangerous people from going free, I would agree with you completely. Until then, I will continue to entertain the necessity of the death penalty in a society as inherently violent as ours is in the US.
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I don’t watch a whole lot of television, although when I get home in the evenings around 7PM or so I try to catch some news just to see what’s going on in the world. Well, last night I wish I had not done so. It seems that additional details have arisen regarding the brutal rape and murder of the 9 year old Jessica Lunsford (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7578059/[^]). When you hear the words rape and murder in the same sentence one can reasonably assume that things cannot get any worse for the person involved. However, for this innocent child things were definitely worst: she was buried alive. Bad things happen in the world every day and at every minute: terrorism, war, natural disasters, starvation, rape, murder, and the list goes on and on with just about every bad thing you can think of. By now I would think everyone has adapted to the horrors of the times, such that when we hear bad news its impact on us is minor, perhaps non existent. However, this particular case has taken its toll on me. I’m a father, one three year old girl and a baby of only seven months, both of which I love more than anything else, above and beyond my own life. I just cannot imagine the pain this girl’s parents are feeling at this very moment and will continue to feel for the rest of their lives, no doubt a wound that will never heal. My eyes are watery as I write this thread, an occasional tear hear and there. Sadness? No doubt. Rage? That too. Sometimes I bitch and moan about life, about money usually, always wanting more and more. Bills to pay, mouths to feed, backs to clothe, education to provide, and of course everyone wants those extra luxuries. Yet it's events like these that make me pause, think, and realize how good I really have it. I may not have that beamer I’ve always wanted or that mansion up in the hills, but I do have my two little girls, and that’s worth infinity. Yet, however, more often than not I’m foolish enough to take this fact for granted. Perhaps little Jessica’s parents took her for granted as well, that is, expected her to always be there with her arms wide open, as if it such were a right rather than a privilege. Don’t we all take our children for granted? I know I have. We see and care for them every single day, expecting the next day to be just like the prior one, on so on and so forth. Indeed my eyes have been opened by this case. Nothing in
I gotta tell you, since I had kids, I come close to crying whenever I hear anything like this, or even see movies with a plot that involves harm to children. That's just how it is, at least for me. I'm in Singapore for the MVP conference. Man, I miss them.
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dnh wrote: That's the first time I hear about ACLU. American Civil Liberties Union - basically an organization of socialist lawyers dedicated to subverting the legal system to achieve a more leftist social order - all in the guise of defending the constitution (which they could care less about) dnh wrote: So, kill them with lethal injection or someting is not "cruel or unusual"? oh please... Again, I'd like to see survey how many prisoners would prefer death sentence against life-long jail... (It would be morbid survey, I know). Maybe I am comletely wrong? I don't know, we don't have death penalty here... and IMHO level of violence is not worse then in USA, but that's just my opinion not based on facts. A lifetime in prison would be more cruel than a quick death with a needle. I know which I would prefer. But lawyers in organizations such as the ACLU can mkae the most modest forms of punhishment seem like a soviet gulag and have a lot of money and power backing them up to fight their cause. Any prisoner given a life sentence always has a very real hope of being released at some point. dnh wrote: Again and again, I don't say release them Yet they always seem to get released. If those who fight against the death penalty would fight just as hard to prevent very dangerous people from going free, I would agree with you completely. Until then, I will continue to entertain the necessity of the death penalty in a society as inherently violent as ours is in the US.
Anonymous wrote: I know which I would prefer Me too, and I don't think we both mean the same option. Anonymous wrote: But lawyers in organizations such as the ACLU can mkae the most modest forms of punhishment seem like a soviet gulag and have a lot of money and power backing them up to fight their cause. lawyers... :mad: Anonymous wrote: If those who fight against the death penalty would fight just as hard to prevent very dangerous people from going free, I would agree with you completely. I am glad you would. Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
Anyone think for moment that if this monster is found guilty he should be spared the death penality? Jerry Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta)
Yes, without question. The problem with the death penalty is not one of possibly taking an innocent life (we do that in wars 24/7 and no one gives a damn), it's about the "now it's not a problem anymore because they're dead" mentality. Many people are all too keen to just sweep their dirty rubbish under the mat and pretend it isn't there rather than actually thinking "what could we do to help prevent it". We kill our violent criminals so we are safe. The death penalty doesn't deter violent crime - countries with the death penalty share the highest violent crime rates in the world. It's about revenge and pretending the problem doesn't exist. What would you like to happen if in ten years time it emerged the person who killed the little girl in this thread might have killed more children? You would never know where they were, you would never be able to know for sure if they were alive or dead. Could you face the parents and tell them, "oh I'm sorry, we've already killed him - oops" ? The death penalty is the easy way out, not the best way out.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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Yes, without question. The problem with the death penalty is not one of possibly taking an innocent life (we do that in wars 24/7 and no one gives a damn), it's about the "now it's not a problem anymore because they're dead" mentality. Many people are all too keen to just sweep their dirty rubbish under the mat and pretend it isn't there rather than actually thinking "what could we do to help prevent it". We kill our violent criminals so we are safe. The death penalty doesn't deter violent crime - countries with the death penalty share the highest violent crime rates in the world. It's about revenge and pretending the problem doesn't exist. What would you like to happen if in ten years time it emerged the person who killed the little girl in this thread might have killed more children? You would never know where they were, you would never be able to know for sure if they were alive or dead. Could you face the parents and tell them, "oh I'm sorry, we've already killed him - oops" ? The death penalty is the easy way out, not the best way out.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
David Wulff wrote: The problem with the death penalty is not one of possibly taking an innocent life (we do that in wars 24/7 and no one gives a damn) That still doesn't make it right though - surely it's too high a risk if it would mean even one innocent life was lost as a result? As you say, it doesn't really solve the problem. -- Andrew.
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David Wulff wrote: The problem with the death penalty is not one of possibly taking an innocent life (we do that in wars 24/7 and no one gives a damn) That still doesn't make it right though - surely it's too high a risk if it would mean even one innocent life was lost as a result? As you say, it doesn't really solve the problem. -- Andrew.
Andrew Peace wrote: surely it's too high a risk if it would mean even one innocent life was lost as a result? Of course it is... but only on paper. In reality no-one truely cares. A life is a statistic not a person. It will never happen to 'me' or 'anyone I care about' because 'we' don't commit violent crimes. I find it ironic that the same people who bitch about their governments reaching more and more into their personal lives and taking away personal responsibility are happy to sit back and advocate them pushing the death penalty if they are convicted of violent crimes. Given the steady stream of people having their convictions overturned every year because it turns out they were just 'in the wrong place at the wrong time' I wonder how quickly they would change their opinions should they ever find themselves facing paralysis and then suffocation at the hands of a state executioner. Waiting till it affects you personally before you try to change the system is backward; time is not on your side.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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Andrew Peace wrote: surely it's too high a risk if it would mean even one innocent life was lost as a result? Of course it is... but only on paper. In reality no-one truely cares. A life is a statistic not a person. It will never happen to 'me' or 'anyone I care about' because 'we' don't commit violent crimes. I find it ironic that the same people who bitch about their governments reaching more and more into their personal lives and taking away personal responsibility are happy to sit back and advocate them pushing the death penalty if they are convicted of violent crimes. Given the steady stream of people having their convictions overturned every year because it turns out they were just 'in the wrong place at the wrong time' I wonder how quickly they would change their opinions should they ever find themselves facing paralysis and then suffocation at the hands of a state executioner. Waiting till it affects you personally before you try to change the system is backward; time is not on your side.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
David Wulff wrote: Given the steady stream of people having their convictions overturned every year because it turns out they were just 'in the wrong place at the wrong time' Also, there seems to have been a number of cases where expert witnesses have had their testimony overturned. I read a interesting titbit of information that DNA tests are not 100% accurate. The failure rate is very low for someone without an identical twin/triplet/etc. but it is still possible. 1 in a million are close enough to someone else that the test can't distinguish them. That would mean that ~60 people in the UK have sufficiently close enough DNA to you or me that a test wouldn't work.
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Nah, you are not understanding it again. Problem is that judges run in the real world not in world of ones and zeroes... As long as probability of bribing jury or mistakes or someting is bigger then 0% I am against death penalty that's it. While I may not be aginst executing murderers I am against even POSSIBILITY to execute innocent. So in your question is problem with Toasty0 wrote: Anyone think for moment that if this monster is found guilty he should be spared the death penality? If you ask Anyone think for moment that if this monster is guilty he should be spared the death penality? then answer is NO. David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidydnh wrote: Nah, you are not understanding it again you do understand that the motherfucker admited it, don't you? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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dnh wrote: Nah, you are not understanding it again you do understand that the motherfucker admited it, don't you? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
yes I do. Certainly he can't be set free. Nobody have right to kill. Not even the state. David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
yes I do. Certainly he can't be set free. Nobody have right to kill. Not even the state. David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidydnh wrote: Nobody have right to kill. then he should be let out and the father given a gun. if it were my daughter, I'd kill this garbage with my bare hands. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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I gotta tell you, since I had kids, I come close to crying whenever I hear anything like this, or even see movies with a plot that involves harm to children. That's just how it is, at least for me. I'm in Singapore for the MVP conference. Man, I miss them.
It's not just you, I feel the same and I don't have kids of my own. Not always with children, but when anyone loved is lost to another person it usually brings me to that state. I think it is being able to empathise with the loss that does it. In cruel cases it just makes it harder.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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dnh wrote: Nobody have right to kill. then he should be let out and the father given a gun. if it were my daughter, I'd kill this garbage with my bare hands. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
would that bring her back?? resurrect from death??? David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
would that bring her back?? resurrect from death??? David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidydnh wrote: would that bring her back?? resurrect from death??? what is your point? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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dnh wrote: would that bring her back?? resurrect from death??? what is your point? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: what is your point? by killing those who caused you great pain you are still NOT making world better place. David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
Mike Gaskey wrote: what is your point? by killing those who caused you great pain you are still NOT making world better place. David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidydnh wrote: by killing those who caused you great pain you are still NOT making world better place. you're dead wrong. I would be making MY world a better place. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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dnh wrote: by killing those who caused you great pain you are still NOT making world better place. you're dead wrong. I would be making MY world a better place. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
A slight correction: You would be making your mind a safer place. Certain illicit drugs have the same effect.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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dnh wrote: by killing those who caused you great pain you are still NOT making world better place. you're dead wrong. I would be making MY world a better place. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: if it were my daughter, I'd kill this garbage with my bare hands. Mike Gaskey wrote: I would be making MY world a better place. certainly. But check wife's world: daughter - dead, husband - in prison for murder. yeah you are right, that would be great world! X| David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
A slight correction: You would be making your mind a safer place. Certain illicit drugs have the same effect.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
David Wulff wrote: A slight correction I'll assume you've read the entire thread and didn't simply jump in at this point and offer a comment. So, let me get this straight, the circumstances are: o A sexual predator broke into a house in Florida, o This predator kidnapped a young girl, taking her from her bed, o This predator attacked and sexually abused the girl, o This predator then buried her alive, killing, o This same predator admits to everything, o The admission is supported by the evidence. And you don't believe he should be put to death? Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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Mike Gaskey wrote: if it were my daughter, I'd kill this garbage with my bare hands. Mike Gaskey wrote: I would be making MY world a better place. certainly. But check wife's world: daughter - dead, husband - in prison for murder. yeah you are right, that would be great world! X| David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidyTalk to me again when you have children. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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Talk to me again when you have children. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Life is sacred for me. That woudn't change. Never. Sure not when I'll have my own children. Actually I'd love life even more. I by no mean feel remorse for that beast. I just hate to kill even more than I hate killers*. IIRC whole our discussion is about whether kill the murderer or let him die in prison. Death penalty is simple way how to put it away but it solves nothing. It brings MORAL and other problems. Yes, life-long sentence brings more practical problems but less moral ones. Think about it this way. I see this discussion is over. OK. I am glad we kept it polite. *except situation when you HAVE TO kill in defence. This is not the case. David Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy