Missile-tit for tat
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Imran, wouldn't it be just great if India and Pakistan could be friends and use their combined intelligence to better the lifestyles of their general population and maybe make joint space programme ventures and you know bring about total peace in the region. I really wish we could have had a single cricket team. Imagine Kapil Dev, Imran Khan, Gavaskar and Miandad in one team. We'd have killed everyone else :-) Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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It's a bit funny when you think of it. But Indian and Paki programmers are among the best in the world currently [if you ignore the chinese] I guess one reason new generaytion americans suck at programming is that they play too much video games and are lazy and watch TV and eat trash food. So they find it hard to use their programming brains properly. But there are exceptions too I guess Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: I guess one reason new generaytion americans suck at programming is that they play too much video games and are lazy and watch TV and eat trash food. So they find it hard to use their programming brains properly. This from the man who said he wanted to learn COM but keeps getting distracted by Unreal !!! FWIW, I stopped watching TV about two years ago. I'll watch the odd show that I like ( like the Blue Planet ), and put on a video from time to time because my wife likes to watch them and it gives us time together, but that is it, nor do I play games apart from an hour of Worms World Party at lunch time every day. On the other hand, I eat WAY too much junk food.... Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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Hey George!!! 12 yrs old girl from pakistan and 14 yrs old guy from india are SCJPs (SUN certified JAVA professionals). Any "quality" professional form US has achieved any such certifications in fore mentioned age. :confused: Just think about it. Imran Farooqui
Imran Farooqui wrote: 12 yrs old girl from pakistan and 14 yrs old guy from india are SCJPs (SUN certified JAVA professionals). You're saying Indians are not as smart as Pakistanis ? Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
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It's a bit funny when you think of it. But Indian and Paki programmers are among the best in the world currently [if you ignore the chinese] I guess one reason new generaytion americans suck at programming is that they play too much video games and are lazy and watch TV and eat trash food. So they find it hard to use their programming brains properly. But there are exceptions too I guess Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Indian and Paki programmers are among the best in the world currently [if you ignore the chinese] Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: I guess one reason new generaytion americans suck at programming is that they play too much video games and are lazy and watch TV and eat trash food. Nish, stop spreading a stereotypes. You're watching too much of the popular media news or something. How do you measure the programming skills to get to the conclusion that any nation's programmers are better than others? I can garantie you that if you make a proper research you will find it totally random, with slight shift towards more advanced countries (easier access to technology, it helps). But to say that some country's programmers are better than others just doesn't hold, you have to go on a case-by-case basis, each person is different individual and it's impossible to generalize.
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Imran, wouldn't it be just great if India and Pakistan could be friends and use their combined intelligence to better the lifestyles of their general population and maybe make joint space programme ventures and you know bring about total peace in the region. I really wish we could have had a single cricket team. Imagine Kapil Dev, Imran Khan, Gavaskar and Miandad in one team. We'd have killed everyone else :-) Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
Well, western powers may not like these countries to become friends. Thats why they had never taken serious steps in resolving Kashmir issue. Reason is simple as you mentioned that if these countries resolve their issues, they can become economic giants. USA wants nuclear india in order to deal with China. But they fears that technological advances in India can one day make it a super power. So, they keep the kashmir issue and Pakistan nuclear threats alive. Imran Farooqui
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Imran Farooqui wrote: Hey George!!! 12 yrs old girl from pakistan and 14 yrs old guy from india are SCJPs (SUN certified JAVA professionals). Any "quality" professional form US has achieved any such certifications in fore mentioned age. Just think about it. Maybe, but that is not the reason why "indian and pak software engineers take all the jobs away from the americans". The reason is the money, however you usually get what you paid for. Just think about it.
George wrote: The reason is the money, however you usually get what you paid for. Just think about it. It's not that George. I seriously dont think a programmer is a bad programmer just because he is a Brown-Race-person. The fact is when you convert the US $ to Indian or Pakistani currency it is a lot of money. I really dont think indian or paki programmers are bad. In fact impersonally speaking I believe that new generation americans are not good as programmers due to their luxury-filled childhood life styles. But just wait till those chinese guys take over. They will blast everyone off :-) :-) Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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Imran Farooqui wrote: 12 yrs old girl from pakistan and 14 yrs old guy from india are SCJPs (SUN certified JAVA professionals). You're saying Indians are not as smart as Pakistanis ? Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
****Christian Graus wrote: You're saying Indians are not as smart as Pakistanis ? LOLOL Nish p.s. Geez CG, you wanna start a war eh? Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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Well, western powers may not like these countries to become friends. Thats why they had never taken serious steps in resolving Kashmir issue. Reason is simple as you mentioned that if these countries resolve their issues, they can become economic giants. USA wants nuclear india in order to deal with China. But they fears that technological advances in India can one day make it a super power. So, they keep the kashmir issue and Pakistan nuclear threats alive. Imran Farooqui
What a nonsense conspiracy theory... Imran Farooqui wrote: Well, western powers may not like these countries to become friends. Well, to tell you the truth, western powers don't give a rat's sh*t about "these countries". They are usually too busy with themselfes. Imran Farooqui wrote: why they had never taken serious steps in resolving Kashmir issue. Exactly, western powers don't give a damm about Kashmir or anthything around it. Imran Farooqui wrote: Reason is simple as you mentioned that if these countries resolve their issues, they can become economic giants. Yeah, right. Who cares? Imran Farooqui wrote: USA wants nuclear india in order to deal with China. I can assure you that US is totally capable to deal with China. It seems that India has tricked US help in nuclear technology (to build the power stations) and run it's own military research to build the bomb instead. Imran Farooqui wrote: But they fears that technological advances in India can one day make it a super power. Once more, who cares? Imran Farooqui wrote: So, they keep the kashmir issue and Pakistan nuclear threats alive. Pakistan and India don't need any help in doing that.
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Well, western powers may not like these countries to become friends. Thats why they had never taken serious steps in resolving Kashmir issue. Reason is simple as you mentioned that if these countries resolve their issues, they can become economic giants. USA wants nuclear india in order to deal with China. But they fears that technological advances in India can one day make it a super power. So, they keep the kashmir issue and Pakistan nuclear threats alive. Imran Farooqui
Imran Farooqui wrote: Well, western powers may not like these countries to become friends Why is it always the western powers fault? Why does Africa and all the other 3rd world nations around the world blame the west? For once, just once, I want to see a 3rd world country stand up and say "We are to blame, we cocked our country up and now we are going to make it better. We don't demand help from the west, but we would appreciate it." regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: Indian and Paki programmers are among the best in the world currently [if you ignore the chinese] Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: I guess one reason new generaytion americans suck at programming is that they play too much video games and are lazy and watch TV and eat trash food. Nish, stop spreading a stereotypes. You're watching too much of the popular media news or something. How do you measure the programming skills to get to the conclusion that any nation's programmers are better than others? I can garantie you that if you make a proper research you will find it totally random, with slight shift towards more advanced countries (easier access to technology, it helps). But to say that some country's programmers are better than others just doesn't hold, you have to go on a case-by-case basis, each person is different individual and it's impossible to generalize.
George wrote: How do you measure the programming skills to get to the conclusion that any nation's programmers are better than others? George, it was you who said you felt that the quality in software has dropped because of too many indian and pak programmers. Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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George wrote: The reason is the money, however you usually get what you paid for. Just think about it. It's not that George. I seriously dont think a programmer is a bad programmer just because he is a Brown-Race-person. The fact is when you convert the US $ to Indian or Pakistani currency it is a lot of money. I really dont think indian or paki programmers are bad. In fact impersonally speaking I believe that new generation americans are not good as programmers due to their luxury-filled childhood life styles. But just wait till those chinese guys take over. They will blast everyone off :-) :-) Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: I seriously dont think a programmer is a bad programmer just because he is a Brown-Race-person. OK, you are getting onto the right track. Now, why do you think he is better because of his race? See, no reason. It's because it doesn't matter. So, there is nothing like X-Nation programmers are better than Y-Nation programmers. It's irrelevant. Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: The fact is when you convert the US $ to Indian or Pakistani currency it is a lot of money. Which is why Indian or Pakistani programmer will be cheaper. And so sometimes he will get the job instead of another person who would not want to work for small money.
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: I guess one reason new generaytion americans suck at programming is that they play too much video games and are lazy and watch TV and eat trash food. So they find it hard to use their programming brains properly. This from the man who said he wanted to learn COM but keeps getting distracted by Unreal !!! FWIW, I stopped watching TV about two years ago. I'll watch the odd show that I like ( like the Blue Planet ), and put on a video from time to time because my wife likes to watch them and it gives us time together, but that is it, nor do I play games apart from an hour of Worms World Party at lunch time every day. On the other hand, I eat WAY too much junk food.... Christian I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001 Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff. Picture a world without war, without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it.
Sonork ID 100.10002:MeanManOz
I live in Bob's HungOut now
****Christian Graus wrote: This from the man who said he wanted to learn COM but keeps getting distracted by Unreal !!! LOLOL Yeah, I am slightly american in my gaming attitude :-) Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: I seriously dont think a programmer is a bad programmer just because he is a Brown-Race-person. OK, you are getting onto the right track. Now, why do you think he is better because of his race? See, no reason. It's because it doesn't matter. So, there is nothing like X-Nation programmers are better than Y-Nation programmers. It's irrelevant. Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: The fact is when you convert the US $ to Indian or Pakistani currency it is a lot of money. Which is why Indian or Pakistani programmer will be cheaper. And so sometimes he will get the job instead of another person who would not want to work for small money.
George wrote: Which is why Indian or Pakistani programmer will be cheaper. And so sometimes he will get the job instead of another person who would not want to work for small money. Exactly my point George. But then you said the software quality is down now cause of cheaper programmers. You said you only get what you paid for which is not true :-) An american working at $70/hr would not be better than a pakistani working at $10/hr. Money rate has nothing to do with quality. Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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George wrote: How do you measure the programming skills to get to the conclusion that any nation's programmers are better than others? George, it was you who said you felt that the quality in software has dropped because of too many indian and pak programmers. Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: George, it was you who said you felt that the quality in software has dropped because of too many indian and pak programmers. Not really. You said that "indian and pak software engineers take all the jobs away from the americans". The only way they can do that is when they work for less money. That in turn leads to hiring cheaper programmers, which in general leads to a drop of quality. But it's the money that makes a difference, not the nationality.
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George wrote: Which is why Indian or Pakistani programmer will be cheaper. And so sometimes he will get the job instead of another person who would not want to work for small money. Exactly my point George. But then you said the software quality is down now cause of cheaper programmers. You said you only get what you paid for which is not true :-) An american working at $70/hr would not be better than a pakistani working at $10/hr. Money rate has nothing to do with quality. Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: An american working at $70/hr would not be better than a pakistani working at $10/hr. Money rate has nothing to do with quality. Pakistani working at $10/hr will do just as well as american at $10/hr. The problem is that american has to live in america and so he can't work that small rate. Pakistani will take his $10 to Pakistan and so he will compensate the loss on the exhange rate and cost of living. If that pakistani is as good as american he would request and he would get more/less the same rate. Money has all to do with quality. You can see it at every corner, not just programming.
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: George, it was you who said you felt that the quality in software has dropped because of too many indian and pak programmers. Not really. You said that "indian and pak software engineers take all the jobs away from the americans". The only way they can do that is when they work for less money. That in turn leads to hiring cheaper programmers, which in general leads to a drop of quality. But it's the money that makes a difference, not the nationality.
George wrote: The only way they can do that is when they work for less money. That in turn leads to hiring cheaper programmers, which in general leads to a drop of quality. But it's the money that makes a difference, not the nationality. I agree with you that nationality is not a factor. I never meant that anyway :-) But indo-pak programmers are cheaper not cause they are poor quality programmers but because they come from poorer countries. I dont see that bringing a drop in quality. Nish p.s. I feel good to say indo-pak as if we were brothers [which we are geographically and on an ancestorship basis ] p.s. to p.s. George no hard feelings, okay. I dont believe in different nationalities and races and religions. I believe that for the ultimate growth of humanity we all need to stand as one, "the race of homo sapiens sapiens" Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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Imran Farooqui wrote: Well, western powers may not like these countries to become friends Why is it always the western powers fault? Why does Africa and all the other 3rd world nations around the world blame the west? For once, just once, I want to see a 3rd world country stand up and say "We are to blame, we cocked our country up and now we are going to make it better. We don't demand help from the west, but we would appreciate it." regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge Martin Marvinski wrote: Unfortunatly Deep Throat isn't my cup of tea Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
Paul The reason the 3rd world always attacks america is the same as why other software companies attack Microsoft. It's a natutal psychology to atack the ones on top :-) Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote: An american working at $70/hr would not be better than a pakistani working at $10/hr. Money rate has nothing to do with quality. Pakistani working at $10/hr will do just as well as american at $10/hr. The problem is that american has to live in america and so he can't work that small rate. Pakistani will take his $10 to Pakistan and so he will compensate the loss on the exhange rate and cost of living. If that pakistani is as good as american he would request and he would get more/less the same rate. Money has all to do with quality. You can see it at every corner, not just programming.
Again I agree with you George. I mean I will not work at a sub-normal rate just cause I am from India. I mean if I can code as well as anyone else I'd demand that I be paid the normal rate too. I dont believe in stealing an american's job by agreeing to work at a 10th the normal rate. In fact I think I might even demand more :-) Regards Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
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Paul The reason the 3rd world always attacks america is the same as why other software companies attack Microsoft. It's a natutal psychology to atack the ones on top :-) Nish Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut
same thing for bosses (mine not... but most of them) :-D Mauricio Teichmann Ritter Brazil mauricioritter@hotmail.com
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George wrote: The only way they can do that is when they work for less money. That in turn leads to hiring cheaper programmers, which in general leads to a drop of quality. But it's the money that makes a difference, not the nationality. I agree with you that nationality is not a factor. I never meant that anyway :-) But indo-pak programmers are cheaper not cause they are poor quality programmers but because they come from poorer countries. I dont see that bringing a drop in quality. Nish p.s. I feel good to say indo-pak as if we were brothers [which we are geographically and on an ancestorship basis ] p.s. to p.s. George no hard feelings, okay. I dont believe in different nationalities and races and religions. I believe that for the ultimate growth of humanity we all need to stand as one, "the race of homo sapiens sapiens" Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain www.busterboy.org If you don't find me on CP, I'll be at Bob's HungOut