Some New Ideas
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I heard a brief blurb on NPR this morning that Bush has "some new ideas" to help ease the energy supply crunch--built nuclear plants and make closed military bases available for new refineries. Here's a news story[^]. The president's speech was described by White House officials as a way to emphasize how technology can be applied to expand the supply of energy. OK, it's a slightly out of context quote, but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Let's use "technology" to get even more dependent on non-renewable, Arab controlled, resources. Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. And what the hell is this: Bush will call on the Energy Department to develop a proposal for a federal "risk insurance" plan that would kick in if there were lengthy delays in licensing of a new commercial power reactor. Something that protects the builder of the plant from excessive regulations? Or something that lets the government step in and say "fire it up" without adequate licensing? And this: The president also will call on Congress to provide a tax credit for gas-electric hybrid automobiles and for use of clean diesel. The hybrid tax break was included in Bush's budget earlier this year but left out of the energy bill passed by the House last week. Such a credit would provide $2.5 billion in tax incentives over 10 years, the White House officials said. Consumers would get a credit, up to $4,000, depending on the level of a vehicle's fuel efficiency, if they purchase a hybrid or clean-diesel vehicle. Is just to be lip service, or so it seems, since it was left out of the energy bill anyways. :mad: Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
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I heard a brief blurb on NPR this morning that Bush has "some new ideas" to help ease the energy supply crunch--built nuclear plants and make closed military bases available for new refineries. Here's a news story[^]. The president's speech was described by White House officials as a way to emphasize how technology can be applied to expand the supply of energy. OK, it's a slightly out of context quote, but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Let's use "technology" to get even more dependent on non-renewable, Arab controlled, resources. Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. And what the hell is this: Bush will call on the Energy Department to develop a proposal for a federal "risk insurance" plan that would kick in if there were lengthy delays in licensing of a new commercial power reactor. Something that protects the builder of the plant from excessive regulations? Or something that lets the government step in and say "fire it up" without adequate licensing? And this: The president also will call on Congress to provide a tax credit for gas-electric hybrid automobiles and for use of clean diesel. The hybrid tax break was included in Bush's budget earlier this year but left out of the energy bill passed by the House last week. Such a credit would provide $2.5 billion in tax incentives over 10 years, the White House officials said. Consumers would get a credit, up to $4,000, depending on the level of a vehicle's fuel efficiency, if they purchase a hybrid or clean-diesel vehicle. Is just to be lip service, or so it seems, since it was left out of the energy bill anyways. :mad: Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
do hybrid buyers really need incentives? when a used Toyota Prius can sell for more than a new one simply because demand is so high that there aren't any new ones available, it doesn't look to me like there is a need for incentive on the demand side. rather, it looks like there's a need for an incentive on the supply side. how about nudging American auto makers to make hybrids instead of Hummers and Excursions (as they are now nudged) ? how about getting rid of the tax incentives that encourage people to buy vehicles over 6,000 pounds ? why pay people to buy vehicles which require them to buy more gas ? Image Toolkits | Image Processing | Cleek
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I heard a brief blurb on NPR this morning that Bush has "some new ideas" to help ease the energy supply crunch--built nuclear plants and make closed military bases available for new refineries. Here's a news story[^]. The president's speech was described by White House officials as a way to emphasize how technology can be applied to expand the supply of energy. OK, it's a slightly out of context quote, but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Let's use "technology" to get even more dependent on non-renewable, Arab controlled, resources. Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. And what the hell is this: Bush will call on the Energy Department to develop a proposal for a federal "risk insurance" plan that would kick in if there were lengthy delays in licensing of a new commercial power reactor. Something that protects the builder of the plant from excessive regulations? Or something that lets the government step in and say "fire it up" without adequate licensing? And this: The president also will call on Congress to provide a tax credit for gas-electric hybrid automobiles and for use of clean diesel. The hybrid tax break was included in Bush's budget earlier this year but left out of the energy bill passed by the House last week. Such a credit would provide $2.5 billion in tax incentives over 10 years, the White House officials said. Consumers would get a credit, up to $4,000, depending on the level of a vehicle's fuel efficiency, if they purchase a hybrid or clean-diesel vehicle. Is just to be lip service, or so it seems, since it was left out of the energy bill anyways. :mad: Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
What's sad about it all is that the U.S. could really take a lead on something near and dear to their hearts: the automobile. I strongly suspect that some day we'll all be driving electric cars but they won't be invented or built in the U.S. Don't be too hyper for hybrid cars: it's a myth that they are the most energy efficient, an efficient small gasoline or diesel vehicle will get better mileage than any hybrid every time. This is mainly because the hybrids are incredibly heavy and that makes them very inefficient vehicles. Your better off to buy the smallest lightest diesel car out there for efficiency. American auto makers are famous all over the world for getting the least amount of power out of the biggest engine compared to many asian and European vehicles. That would be a good place to start if it wasn't for the rampant use of SUV's etc making this all meaningless anyway. My Japanese car's tiny 4 cylinder engine meets California emission standards and generates 227 horsepower, an equivalent Ford or Chevy would probably be a six cylinder and use easily double the gasoline to get there. Sure there are lot's of interesting things coming down the pipes but there is plenty that could have been done with what's around now. American auto makers biggest idea to get more economy? Don't bother engineering a more advanced engine, just shut down half the cylinders when cruising! That's crazy, you're still dragging all that weight around. American auto makers are being so slow to react that it's not surprising they are getting hammered so badly, how many decades of slumping sales does it take to realize there is a problem? Bush and co are pretty open about what they support and why, it's not about what makes any kind of scientific or logical sense, it's all about pandering to the trough, the electorate had that knowledge available to them particularly the last time around and they made their decision despite it which is what prompts many outside the U.S. to think "what the hell is wrong with those people?".
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office." - Ambrose Bierce
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I heard a brief blurb on NPR this morning that Bush has "some new ideas" to help ease the energy supply crunch--built nuclear plants and make closed military bases available for new refineries. Here's a news story[^]. The president's speech was described by White House officials as a way to emphasize how technology can be applied to expand the supply of energy. OK, it's a slightly out of context quote, but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Let's use "technology" to get even more dependent on non-renewable, Arab controlled, resources. Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. And what the hell is this: Bush will call on the Energy Department to develop a proposal for a federal "risk insurance" plan that would kick in if there were lengthy delays in licensing of a new commercial power reactor. Something that protects the builder of the plant from excessive regulations? Or something that lets the government step in and say "fire it up" without adequate licensing? And this: The president also will call on Congress to provide a tax credit for gas-electric hybrid automobiles and for use of clean diesel. The hybrid tax break was included in Bush's budget earlier this year but left out of the energy bill passed by the House last week. Such a credit would provide $2.5 billion in tax incentives over 10 years, the White House officials said. Consumers would get a credit, up to $4,000, depending on the level of a vehicle's fuel efficiency, if they purchase a hybrid or clean-diesel vehicle. Is just to be lip service, or so it seems, since it was left out of the energy bill anyways. :mad: Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Marc Clifton wrote: but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Compared to what? The briliant, insightful solutions being offered by someone else? Oh, if only Bush were as smart as you - he would order the evil greedy capitalists to build non-polluting cars and order the scientist to create renewable non-polluting sources of energy. Oh, if only he could see the wisdom of collectivism and the evils of capitalism, life would just be so much more fulfilling. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Marc Clifton wrote: but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Compared to what? The briliant, insightful solutions being offered by someone else? Oh, if only Bush were as smart as you - he would order the evil greedy capitalists to build non-polluting cars and order the scientist to create renewable non-polluting sources of energy. Oh, if only he could see the wisdom of collectivism and the evils of capitalism, life would just be so much more fulfilling. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: Compared to what? No comparisons are needed. An imbicile can stand on their own merits, or lack thereof. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
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Stan Shannon wrote: Compared to what? No comparisons are needed. An imbicile can stand on their own merits, or lack thereof. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Lets assume for a moment that Bush was the most intelligent human being who had ever lived (and obviously, therefore, a liberal) what would he do? "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Lets assume for a moment that Bush was the most intelligent human being who had ever lived (and obviously, therefore, a liberal) what would he do? "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: Lets assume for a moment that Bush was the most intelligent human being who had ever lived (and obviously, therefore, a liberal) what would he do? Something different. I'm not taking the bait here, Stan. :) Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
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Marc Clifton wrote: but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Compared to what? The briliant, insightful solutions being offered by someone else? Oh, if only Bush were as smart as you - he would order the evil greedy capitalists to build non-polluting cars and order the scientist to create renewable non-polluting sources of energy. Oh, if only he could see the wisdom of collectivism and the evils of capitalism, life would just be so much more fulfilling. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Yikes, you're not suggesting that Chris supports a tyranny of his own making, are you? Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta)
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Stan Shannon wrote: Compared to what? No comparisons are needed. An imbicile can stand on their own merits, or lack thereof. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
For you this may be true, but Stan does make a good point...even if you refuse to recognise it. Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta)
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I heard a brief blurb on NPR this morning that Bush has "some new ideas" to help ease the energy supply crunch--built nuclear plants and make closed military bases available for new refineries. Here's a news story[^]. The president's speech was described by White House officials as a way to emphasize how technology can be applied to expand the supply of energy. OK, it's a slightly out of context quote, but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Let's use "technology" to get even more dependent on non-renewable, Arab controlled, resources. Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. And what the hell is this: Bush will call on the Energy Department to develop a proposal for a federal "risk insurance" plan that would kick in if there were lengthy delays in licensing of a new commercial power reactor. Something that protects the builder of the plant from excessive regulations? Or something that lets the government step in and say "fire it up" without adequate licensing? And this: The president also will call on Congress to provide a tax credit for gas-electric hybrid automobiles and for use of clean diesel. The hybrid tax break was included in Bush's budget earlier this year but left out of the energy bill passed by the House last week. Such a credit would provide $2.5 billion in tax incentives over 10 years, the White House officials said. Consumers would get a credit, up to $4,000, depending on the level of a vehicle's fuel efficiency, if they purchase a hybrid or clean-diesel vehicle. Is just to be lip service, or so it seems, since it was left out of the energy bill anyways. :mad: Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Marc Clifton wrote: Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. Actualy, a few prominent environmentalists of the more pragmatic/scientific persuasion have been coming out in favour of nuclear power - including James Lovelock. http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/05/issue/feature_earth.asp?p=1[^] strings together a few things I have been hearing for a while. Nuclear power seems to be the most cost effective short term option for weaning ourselves off fossil fuels. Unless you agree with the mainstream green movement's desire to alter human behaviour on a massive scale.. Ryan
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Marc Clifton wrote: Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. Actualy, a few prominent environmentalists of the more pragmatic/scientific persuasion have been coming out in favour of nuclear power - including James Lovelock. http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/05/issue/feature_earth.asp?p=1[^] strings together a few things I have been hearing for a while. Nuclear power seems to be the most cost effective short term option for weaning ourselves off fossil fuels. Unless you agree with the mainstream green movement's desire to alter human behaviour on a massive scale.. Ryan
Ryan Roberts wrote: Nuclear power seems to be the most cost effective short term option for weaning ourselves off fossil fuels. Nuclear power however does nothing for the existing automotive industry. Which brings up a question I was wondering about. What is the biggest consumer of oil? Cars, et al., or electricity generation? Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
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Yikes, you're not suggesting that Chris supports a tyranny of his own making, are you? Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta)
It just always strikes as so utterly absurd that the solution to every possible problem is the government "nudging" someone to do this or that. I mean, consider how ludicrous that is. On the one hand these guys get all bent out of shape when an idiot gets political power, so what is their solution? To give more power to politicians! What the hell kind of sense does that make? Won't that make the next idiot all the more dangerous? Geez, maybe what we should all be doing is reducing government's power to nudge. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Ryan Roberts wrote: Nuclear power seems to be the most cost effective short term option for weaning ourselves off fossil fuels. Nuclear power however does nothing for the existing automotive industry. Which brings up a question I was wondering about. What is the biggest consumer of oil? Cars, et al., or electricity generation? Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Marc Clifton wrote: Nuclear power however does nothing for the existing automotive industry. It could - if we used nuclear plants to charge hydrogen fuel cells and batteries for electric cars. Peaceful, isolated places like Canada with plenty of open space to build nuclear plants could become the Saudi Arabia of nuclear energy. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Marc Clifton wrote: Nuclear power however does nothing for the existing automotive industry. It could - if we used nuclear plants to charge hydrogen fuel cells and batteries for electric cars. Peaceful, isolated places like Canada with plenty of open space to build nuclear plants could become the Saudi Arabia of nuclear energy. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: It could - if we used nuclear plants to charge hydrogen fuel cells and batteries for electric cars. Possibly, but you're baiting, aren't you? Also note that I said "existing", as I didn't want to get into the quagmire of alternatives. I personally will laugh my head off, when all the environmentalists who are screaming "electric cars", start screaming about the toxic waste from battery/supercapacitor disposal that will then result. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
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Yikes, you're not suggesting that Chris supports a tyranny of his own making, are you? Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta)
i'm sure that made sense in your own head. out here though, not so much. Image Toolkits | Image Processing | Cleek
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It just always strikes as so utterly absurd that the solution to every possible problem is the government "nudging" someone to do this or that. I mean, consider how ludicrous that is. On the one hand these guys get all bent out of shape when an idiot gets political power, so what is their solution? To give more power to politicians! What the hell kind of sense does that make? Won't that make the next idiot all the more dangerous? Geez, maybe what we should all be doing is reducing government's power to nudge. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Whoa, hold on a second here Stan, I'm as hard core capitalist as anyone, but to suggest there isn't some monster truck style "nudging" going on down there right now by the govt. is a bit ludicrous don't you think? As a fellow capitalist wouldn't you agree that the Republicans while perhaps more capitalist than the alternatives are exhibiting far less than the true ideals of capitalism. What about the lobbying, what about the incentives for industry by govt? Trade embargos? Protectionism? Nudging is the very least of what they are doing right now.
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office." - Ambrose Bierce
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Whoa, hold on a second here Stan, I'm as hard core capitalist as anyone, but to suggest there isn't some monster truck style "nudging" going on down there right now by the govt. is a bit ludicrous don't you think? As a fellow capitalist wouldn't you agree that the Republicans while perhaps more capitalist than the alternatives are exhibiting far less than the true ideals of capitalism. What about the lobbying, what about the incentives for industry by govt? Trade embargos? Protectionism? Nudging is the very least of what they are doing right now.
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office." - Ambrose Bierce
John Cardinal wrote: As a fellow capitalist wouldn't you agree that the Republicans while perhaps more capitalist than the alternatives are exhibiting far less than the true ideals of capitalism. What about the lobbying, what about the incentives for industry by govt? Trade embargos? Protectionism? Nudging is the very least of what they are doing right now. Abosolutely! I've never said I liked Republicans. To me, they are merely the lesser of two evils. I would agree with any sane cricitism you could possibly make of Republicans. But if government is going to be involved with business, it should be to help business not to control it. Where does government's power to "nudge" industry stop? How many other problems could government solve if it could just control the products made by industry? "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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John Cardinal wrote: As a fellow capitalist wouldn't you agree that the Republicans while perhaps more capitalist than the alternatives are exhibiting far less than the true ideals of capitalism. What about the lobbying, what about the incentives for industry by govt? Trade embargos? Protectionism? Nudging is the very least of what they are doing right now. Abosolutely! I've never said I liked Republicans. To me, they are merely the lesser of two evils. I would agree with any sane cricitism you could possibly make of Republicans. But if government is going to be involved with business, it should be to help business not to control it. Where does government's power to "nudge" industry stop? How many other problems could government solve if it could just control the products made by industry? "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
One of the worst things in my completely un-humble opinion that goverments do is give huge subsidies to large corporations. I'd like to see that money spent (if it just has to be) instead on training and guidance for anyone interested in starting their own business. Corporate welfare is out of control in North America.
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office." - Ambrose Bierce
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Stan Shannon wrote: Lets assume for a moment that Bush was the most intelligent human being who had ever lived (and obviously, therefore, a liberal) what would he do? Something different. I'm not taking the bait here, Stan. :) Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Marc Clifton wrote: I'm not taking the bait here, Stan That wasn't bait, it was a challenge. He's asking what would you do other than bitch. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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I heard a brief blurb on NPR this morning that Bush has "some new ideas" to help ease the energy supply crunch--built nuclear plants and make closed military bases available for new refineries. Here's a news story[^]. The president's speech was described by White House officials as a way to emphasize how technology can be applied to expand the supply of energy. OK, it's a slightly out of context quote, but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Let's use "technology" to get even more dependent on non-renewable, Arab controlled, resources. Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. And what the hell is this: Bush will call on the Energy Department to develop a proposal for a federal "risk insurance" plan that would kick in if there were lengthy delays in licensing of a new commercial power reactor. Something that protects the builder of the plant from excessive regulations? Or something that lets the government step in and say "fire it up" without adequate licensing? And this: The president also will call on Congress to provide a tax credit for gas-electric hybrid automobiles and for use of clean diesel. The hybrid tax break was included in Bush's budget earlier this year but left out of the energy bill passed by the House last week. Such a credit would provide $2.5 billion in tax incentives over 10 years, the White House officials said. Consumers would get a credit, up to $4,000, depending on the level of a vehicle's fuel efficiency, if they purchase a hybrid or clean-diesel vehicle. Is just to be lip service, or so it seems, since it was left out of the energy bill anyways. :mad: Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Marc Clifton wrote: I heard a brief blurb on NPR this morning that Bush has "some new ideas"... Oh shit! I stopped reading right there. :doh: Later, JoeSox "Live for something rather than die for nothing." - George Patton CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Audioscrobbler