Some New Ideas
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Marc Clifton wrote: but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Compared to what? The briliant, insightful solutions being offered by someone else? Oh, if only Bush were as smart as you - he would order the evil greedy capitalists to build non-polluting cars and order the scientist to create renewable non-polluting sources of energy. Oh, if only he could see the wisdom of collectivism and the evils of capitalism, life would just be so much more fulfilling. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: Compared to what? No comparisons are needed. An imbicile can stand on their own merits, or lack thereof. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
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Stan Shannon wrote: Compared to what? No comparisons are needed. An imbicile can stand on their own merits, or lack thereof. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Lets assume for a moment that Bush was the most intelligent human being who had ever lived (and obviously, therefore, a liberal) what would he do? "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Lets assume for a moment that Bush was the most intelligent human being who had ever lived (and obviously, therefore, a liberal) what would he do? "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: Lets assume for a moment that Bush was the most intelligent human being who had ever lived (and obviously, therefore, a liberal) what would he do? Something different. I'm not taking the bait here, Stan. :) Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
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Marc Clifton wrote: but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Compared to what? The briliant, insightful solutions being offered by someone else? Oh, if only Bush were as smart as you - he would order the evil greedy capitalists to build non-polluting cars and order the scientist to create renewable non-polluting sources of energy. Oh, if only he could see the wisdom of collectivism and the evils of capitalism, life would just be so much more fulfilling. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Yikes, you're not suggesting that Chris supports a tyranny of his own making, are you? Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta)
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Stan Shannon wrote: Compared to what? No comparisons are needed. An imbicile can stand on their own merits, or lack thereof. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
For you this may be true, but Stan does make a good point...even if you refuse to recognise it. Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta)
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I heard a brief blurb on NPR this morning that Bush has "some new ideas" to help ease the energy supply crunch--built nuclear plants and make closed military bases available for new refineries. Here's a news story[^]. The president's speech was described by White House officials as a way to emphasize how technology can be applied to expand the supply of energy. OK, it's a slightly out of context quote, but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Let's use "technology" to get even more dependent on non-renewable, Arab controlled, resources. Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. And what the hell is this: Bush will call on the Energy Department to develop a proposal for a federal "risk insurance" plan that would kick in if there were lengthy delays in licensing of a new commercial power reactor. Something that protects the builder of the plant from excessive regulations? Or something that lets the government step in and say "fire it up" without adequate licensing? And this: The president also will call on Congress to provide a tax credit for gas-electric hybrid automobiles and for use of clean diesel. The hybrid tax break was included in Bush's budget earlier this year but left out of the energy bill passed by the House last week. Such a credit would provide $2.5 billion in tax incentives over 10 years, the White House officials said. Consumers would get a credit, up to $4,000, depending on the level of a vehicle's fuel efficiency, if they purchase a hybrid or clean-diesel vehicle. Is just to be lip service, or so it seems, since it was left out of the energy bill anyways. :mad: Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Marc Clifton wrote: Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. Actualy, a few prominent environmentalists of the more pragmatic/scientific persuasion have been coming out in favour of nuclear power - including James Lovelock. http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/05/issue/feature_earth.asp?p=1[^] strings together a few things I have been hearing for a while. Nuclear power seems to be the most cost effective short term option for weaning ourselves off fossil fuels. Unless you agree with the mainstream green movement's desire to alter human behaviour on a massive scale.. Ryan
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Marc Clifton wrote: Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. Actualy, a few prominent environmentalists of the more pragmatic/scientific persuasion have been coming out in favour of nuclear power - including James Lovelock. http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/05/05/issue/feature_earth.asp?p=1[^] strings together a few things I have been hearing for a while. Nuclear power seems to be the most cost effective short term option for weaning ourselves off fossil fuels. Unless you agree with the mainstream green movement's desire to alter human behaviour on a massive scale.. Ryan
Ryan Roberts wrote: Nuclear power seems to be the most cost effective short term option for weaning ourselves off fossil fuels. Nuclear power however does nothing for the existing automotive industry. Which brings up a question I was wondering about. What is the biggest consumer of oil? Cars, et al., or electricity generation? Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
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Yikes, you're not suggesting that Chris supports a tyranny of his own making, are you? Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta)
It just always strikes as so utterly absurd that the solution to every possible problem is the government "nudging" someone to do this or that. I mean, consider how ludicrous that is. On the one hand these guys get all bent out of shape when an idiot gets political power, so what is their solution? To give more power to politicians! What the hell kind of sense does that make? Won't that make the next idiot all the more dangerous? Geez, maybe what we should all be doing is reducing government's power to nudge. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Ryan Roberts wrote: Nuclear power seems to be the most cost effective short term option for weaning ourselves off fossil fuels. Nuclear power however does nothing for the existing automotive industry. Which brings up a question I was wondering about. What is the biggest consumer of oil? Cars, et al., or electricity generation? Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Marc Clifton wrote: Nuclear power however does nothing for the existing automotive industry. It could - if we used nuclear plants to charge hydrogen fuel cells and batteries for electric cars. Peaceful, isolated places like Canada with plenty of open space to build nuclear plants could become the Saudi Arabia of nuclear energy. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Marc Clifton wrote: Nuclear power however does nothing for the existing automotive industry. It could - if we used nuclear plants to charge hydrogen fuel cells and batteries for electric cars. Peaceful, isolated places like Canada with plenty of open space to build nuclear plants could become the Saudi Arabia of nuclear energy. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: It could - if we used nuclear plants to charge hydrogen fuel cells and batteries for electric cars. Possibly, but you're baiting, aren't you? Also note that I said "existing", as I didn't want to get into the quagmire of alternatives. I personally will laugh my head off, when all the environmentalists who are screaming "electric cars", start screaming about the toxic waste from battery/supercapacitor disposal that will then result. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
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Yikes, you're not suggesting that Chris supports a tyranny of his own making, are you? Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta)
i'm sure that made sense in your own head. out here though, not so much. Image Toolkits | Image Processing | Cleek
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It just always strikes as so utterly absurd that the solution to every possible problem is the government "nudging" someone to do this or that. I mean, consider how ludicrous that is. On the one hand these guys get all bent out of shape when an idiot gets political power, so what is their solution? To give more power to politicians! What the hell kind of sense does that make? Won't that make the next idiot all the more dangerous? Geez, maybe what we should all be doing is reducing government's power to nudge. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Whoa, hold on a second here Stan, I'm as hard core capitalist as anyone, but to suggest there isn't some monster truck style "nudging" going on down there right now by the govt. is a bit ludicrous don't you think? As a fellow capitalist wouldn't you agree that the Republicans while perhaps more capitalist than the alternatives are exhibiting far less than the true ideals of capitalism. What about the lobbying, what about the incentives for industry by govt? Trade embargos? Protectionism? Nudging is the very least of what they are doing right now.
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office." - Ambrose Bierce
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Whoa, hold on a second here Stan, I'm as hard core capitalist as anyone, but to suggest there isn't some monster truck style "nudging" going on down there right now by the govt. is a bit ludicrous don't you think? As a fellow capitalist wouldn't you agree that the Republicans while perhaps more capitalist than the alternatives are exhibiting far less than the true ideals of capitalism. What about the lobbying, what about the incentives for industry by govt? Trade embargos? Protectionism? Nudging is the very least of what they are doing right now.
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office." - Ambrose Bierce
John Cardinal wrote: As a fellow capitalist wouldn't you agree that the Republicans while perhaps more capitalist than the alternatives are exhibiting far less than the true ideals of capitalism. What about the lobbying, what about the incentives for industry by govt? Trade embargos? Protectionism? Nudging is the very least of what they are doing right now. Abosolutely! I've never said I liked Republicans. To me, they are merely the lesser of two evils. I would agree with any sane cricitism you could possibly make of Republicans. But if government is going to be involved with business, it should be to help business not to control it. Where does government's power to "nudge" industry stop? How many other problems could government solve if it could just control the products made by industry? "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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John Cardinal wrote: As a fellow capitalist wouldn't you agree that the Republicans while perhaps more capitalist than the alternatives are exhibiting far less than the true ideals of capitalism. What about the lobbying, what about the incentives for industry by govt? Trade embargos? Protectionism? Nudging is the very least of what they are doing right now. Abosolutely! I've never said I liked Republicans. To me, they are merely the lesser of two evils. I would agree with any sane cricitism you could possibly make of Republicans. But if government is going to be involved with business, it should be to help business not to control it. Where does government's power to "nudge" industry stop? How many other problems could government solve if it could just control the products made by industry? "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
One of the worst things in my completely un-humble opinion that goverments do is give huge subsidies to large corporations. I'd like to see that money spent (if it just has to be) instead on training and guidance for anyone interested in starting their own business. Corporate welfare is out of control in North America.
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office." - Ambrose Bierce
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Stan Shannon wrote: Lets assume for a moment that Bush was the most intelligent human being who had ever lived (and obviously, therefore, a liberal) what would he do? Something different. I'm not taking the bait here, Stan. :) Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Marc Clifton wrote: I'm not taking the bait here, Stan That wasn't bait, it was a challenge. He's asking what would you do other than bitch. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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I heard a brief blurb on NPR this morning that Bush has "some new ideas" to help ease the energy supply crunch--built nuclear plants and make closed military bases available for new refineries. Here's a news story[^]. The president's speech was described by White House officials as a way to emphasize how technology can be applied to expand the supply of energy. OK, it's a slightly out of context quote, but geez, my reaction was that yet again, Bush proves himself to be an imbicile. Let's use "technology" to get even more dependent on non-renewable, Arab controlled, resources. Let's restart the nuclear energy program which technology has still not found a solution for with regards to spent fuel rods and other nuclear waste. And what the hell is this: Bush will call on the Energy Department to develop a proposal for a federal "risk insurance" plan that would kick in if there were lengthy delays in licensing of a new commercial power reactor. Something that protects the builder of the plant from excessive regulations? Or something that lets the government step in and say "fire it up" without adequate licensing? And this: The president also will call on Congress to provide a tax credit for gas-electric hybrid automobiles and for use of clean diesel. The hybrid tax break was included in Bush's budget earlier this year but left out of the energy bill passed by the House last week. Such a credit would provide $2.5 billion in tax incentives over 10 years, the White House officials said. Consumers would get a credit, up to $4,000, depending on the level of a vehicle's fuel efficiency, if they purchase a hybrid or clean-diesel vehicle. Is just to be lip service, or so it seems, since it was left out of the energy bill anyways. :mad: Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO
Marc Clifton wrote: I heard a brief blurb on NPR this morning that Bush has "some new ideas"... Oh shit! I stopped reading right there. :doh: Later, JoeSox "Live for something rather than die for nothing." - George Patton CPMCv1.0 ↔ humanaiproject.org ↔ Audioscrobbler
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Marc Clifton wrote: I'm not taking the bait here, Stan That wasn't bait, it was a challenge. He's asking what would you do other than bitch. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
While I am not in disagreement with President Bush ( at least he is trying to do SOMETHING ) I really do think that we are rapidly reaching the point where we need a Manhattan Project approach in one of two directions. Fuel Cells or synthetic fuels. Electric powered autos are anachronistic at this point because of their dependancy on batteries but viewed in terms of fuel cells they may well be the way to go. Fuel cells have a lot of built in advantages - they are non polluting - the techinical basis is already complete - they should be safe to operate - etc.. Synthetic fuels on the other hand is a technology waiting to be invented. I have no idea if it is even possible on a commercial viable basis. However if we take the 2.something billion and apply it to basic research on one of these two alternatives we would get a bigger bang for the buck in terms of oil used in transportation. Nuke plants are the way to go for commercial electrical production IHNSHO. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
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While I am not in disagreement with President Bush ( at least he is trying to do SOMETHING ) I really do think that we are rapidly reaching the point where we need a Manhattan Project approach in one of two directions. Fuel Cells or synthetic fuels. Electric powered autos are anachronistic at this point because of their dependancy on batteries but viewed in terms of fuel cells they may well be the way to go. Fuel cells have a lot of built in advantages - they are non polluting - the techinical basis is already complete - they should be safe to operate - etc.. Synthetic fuels on the other hand is a technology waiting to be invented. I have no idea if it is even possible on a commercial viable basis. However if we take the 2.something billion and apply it to basic research on one of these two alternatives we would get a bigger bang for the buck in terms of oil used in transportation. Nuke plants are the way to go for commercial electrical production IHNSHO. Richard "Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer --Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
Richard Stringer wrote: Synthetic fuels on the other hand is a technology waiting to be invented. I agree. You would think it possible given the molecular structure is known. Richard Stringer wrote: Nuke plants are the way to go for commercial electrical production There is the problem of the spent rods though. I have thought for a long time that some form of bio-mass would be the correct solution. Hemp can produce multiple crops per year on the same plot of ground making it a pretty efficient crop and may be growable on what would otherwise be wasted land. It would also have the advantage of contributing to breathable air, offsetting to some extent the loss of rain forests in South America. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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One of the worst things in my completely un-humble opinion that goverments do is give huge subsidies to large corporations. I'd like to see that money spent (if it just has to be) instead on training and guidance for anyone interested in starting their own business. Corporate welfare is out of control in North America.
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office." - Ambrose Bierce
John Cardinal wrote: One of the worst things in my completely un-humble opinion that goverments do is give huge subsidies to large corporations. I'd like to see that money spent (if it just has to be) instead on training and guidance for anyone interested in starting their own business. Corporate welfare is out of control in North America. I tend to agree. However, you must remember that these corporations are paying huge amounts in taxes. Any tax paying entity should have the right to discuss issues with any government taxing it. So, I think "corporate welfare" is a bit over blown as an issue. If corporations were allowed to exist tax free, as they should be (with moderate fines for whatever environmental damage they might cause) I would pretty much agree with you entirely. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Marc Clifton wrote: I'm not taking the bait here, Stan That wasn't bait, it was a challenge. He's asking what would you do other than bitch. Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
Mike Gaskey wrote: He's asking what would you do other than bitch. You mean the soapbox is a forum for constructive, intelligent, discussion? :laugh::laugh::laugh: And no, he's baiting me to then make ridiculous comments about my liberal attitudes. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing YAPO