'dumping Microsoft'
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I have an Acorn Atom , and my old beloved BBC Model B in my parents Attic. The BBC had the best Defender game Ever. .nuetter
BBC B with 5 1/4 inch floppy drive :) Only got the drive to play the best computer game EVER - Elite! And if anyone disagrees please take note - after 20years I am STILL a fugitive and do not take any grief from police patrols etc. Come near me and I'll pop you apart with my beam weapon and capture you as a slave :) I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)
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David Wulff wrote: 1) We need to get kids exposed to Microsoft software early because those are the specific IT skills employers are looking for. Early exposure saves a lot of effort later on - it worked for the cigarette industry. How do you think Microsoft got the advantage it did. High school and university kids using pirated Microsoft products back in the 80's and early 90's. Those kids then not only took Microsoft specific knowledge into companies to use, as they moved up the ladder they got to do the purchasing and went with what they know. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So i had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
How it got there is irrelavent, if the kids don't leave school with the correct skills they won't get a job.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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David Wulff wrote: 1) We need to get kids exposed to Microsoft software early because those are the specific IT skills employers are looking for. Now shapes the future, not the other way around. David Wulff wrote: Early exposure saves a lot of effort later on - it worked for the cigarette industry. AFAIK, Microsoft products are generally1 not addictive. :~ David Wulff wrote: 2) I wish I could buy Microsoft software at the prices our schools pay. You can, if you're a student! I remember buying VC++ 5.0 Pro for like a fraction of the retail price. David Wulff wrote: 3) When I was in primary school they were all Acorn computers. Whatever happened to them? [OT] Acorn must've been a UK thing, right? I've never ever seen an Acorn. I've just read about them in magazines and on web sites. 1Exluding gaming consoles and games. -- Schni Schna Schnappi! Schnappi Schnappi Schnapp!
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Now shapes the future, not the other way around. I don't understand that comment. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: AFAIK, Microsoft products are generally not addictive Addictive it perhaps not the correct term but no one pulls off the streamlined experience as much as Office does and when you move over to the alternatives you'll be counting the days till you move back. :rolleyes: Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: You can, if you're a student! That's what I meant! Lucky bastards. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Acorn must've been a UK thing, right? I honestly don't know, but I remember when I was in primary and secondary school most of the computers where Acorn's, with a couple of BBC Basic's still left running in the corner (for all those
10 PRINT MISS HOOLEY SMELLS OF FISH 20 GOTO 10programs).
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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Personally I feel if the government spent say £100 million developing office etc. software for schools and then gave it to them, and all uk citizens, free of charge it would be a far more cost effective solution. I use an old copy of Word for writing letters etc. and OpenOffice for everything elese that I need.
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." - Anatole France
Ted Ferenc wrote: Personally I feel if the government spent say £100 million developing office etc. software for schools and then gave it to them, and all uk citizens, free of charge it would be a far more cost effective solution. Certainly, if you want to: - isolate the UK from the rest of the information world (and take mnany hi-tech jobs overseas), - have all Microsoft PC software products withdrawn from UK markets because Office is their biggest cash cow, - pay a Software Development Tax on your salary to keep the suite up to date, and - pay a bigger contribution to the EU to stop them from kicking us out FWIW, £100m would not come close to being enough - it would take billions over ten years or more. £100m would barely even set up the department to investigate if it was feasible... Ted Ferenc wrote: I use an old copy of Word for writing letters etc. and [other software] for everything elese that I need. Unfortuantely that isn't an option for many people and businesses that need to be able to do more with information than use a PC as a means to get stuff onto paper.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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oooooooooooooooooooooo now there's a thought Lets not spend the saved money on more teachers or books or facilities for the kids. Lets instead bolster MS bottom line as they gouge a bit more from the education system. Great point you made. Really. X|
fakefur wrote: Great point you made. Really. I made a point? Cool, I thought I'd only made observations. :cool: Employers get to decide what skills kids need, not schools, not the state, not Microsoft. I personally have never seen a job ad for any position involving computers (from admin to software development) that did not require experience with Office applications. Nowhere did I say you can't teach other skills.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Now shapes the future, not the other way around. I don't understand that comment. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: AFAIK, Microsoft products are generally not addictive Addictive it perhaps not the correct term but no one pulls off the streamlined experience as much as Office does and when you move over to the alternatives you'll be counting the days till you move back. :rolleyes: Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: You can, if you're a student! That's what I meant! Lucky bastards. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Acorn must've been a UK thing, right? I honestly don't know, but I remember when I was in primary and secondary school most of the computers where Acorn's, with a couple of BBC Basic's still left running in the corner (for all those
10 PRINT MISS HOOLEY SMELLS OF FISH 20 GOTO 10programs).
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
David Wulff wrote: Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Now shapes the future, not the other way around. I don't understand that comment. I think I meant that if kids know non-Microsoft products, more non-Microsoft products will be used in the future. If that's a good thing or not, I don't know. David Wulff wrote: but no one pulls off the streamlined experience as much as Office Maybe it's because I'm a too technical user, but I've always found Office to suck, blow and swallow. But I imagine it's a great software suite for the non-technical. David Wulff wrote: That's what I meant! Lucky bastards. I'm not familiar with the british higher education, but here in Sweden, you can apply to single courses. Of course, it depends on the university, and your qualifications. But once you're enrolled, you're a "student" as you are eligible to hold a student's union card. Should I ever enroll again one day, I'll let you know, and I'll buy you a license. I think that's legal, as long as I don't keep any copies. The license gives the buyer the right to pursue commercial goals, so it's not a half assed license. -- Schni Schna Schnappi! Schnappi Schnappi Schnapp!
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David Wulff wrote: Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Now shapes the future, not the other way around. I don't understand that comment. I think I meant that if kids know non-Microsoft products, more non-Microsoft products will be used in the future. If that's a good thing or not, I don't know. David Wulff wrote: but no one pulls off the streamlined experience as much as Office Maybe it's because I'm a too technical user, but I've always found Office to suck, blow and swallow. But I imagine it's a great software suite for the non-technical. David Wulff wrote: That's what I meant! Lucky bastards. I'm not familiar with the british higher education, but here in Sweden, you can apply to single courses. Of course, it depends on the university, and your qualifications. But once you're enrolled, you're a "student" as you are eligible to hold a student's union card. Should I ever enroll again one day, I'll let you know, and I'll buy you a license. I think that's legal, as long as I don't keep any copies. The license gives the buyer the right to pursue commercial goals, so it's not a half assed license. -- Schni Schna Schnappi! Schnappi Schnappi Schnapp!
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I meant that if kids know non-Microsoft products, more non-Microsoft products will be used in the future. If that's a good thing or not, I don't know I think that's a good thing, because whilst Microsoft skills are the msot in demand there are shops using other software products that need IT-trained people too. At school I got to use Macs as well as those Acorn things in addition to PCs running Microsoft products so I know my way around those systems on a somewhat-competant level too. Kids should be exposed to as much as possible, but never by sacrificing one for another. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: But I imagine it's a great software suite for the non-technical. I don't think it sucks, blows or swallows, unfortuantely, and I'm a technical user. I would have Visio's children if it was biologically possible to fuse man and software product and enhancements made to the mainstream Office products like Word and Outlook since the '97 versions have been impressive. I have always managed to find a compelling reason to upgrade after using the new demos. I am aware that I am not a typical developer in that I manage a lot of business processes, have to chase and follow up sales leads, etc, for which Office really shines. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: The license gives the buyer the right to pursue commercial goals, so it's not a half assed license. I didn't know that, I assumed it would be for educational use only. I remember using a student version of VB6 at college - please don't tell anyone! - and that put a messagebox on every compiled application saying it was an educational version.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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Ted Ferenc wrote: Personally I feel if the government spent say £100 million developing office etc. software for schools and then gave it to them, and all uk citizens, free of charge it would be a far more cost effective solution. Certainly, if you want to: - isolate the UK from the rest of the information world (and take mnany hi-tech jobs overseas), - have all Microsoft PC software products withdrawn from UK markets because Office is their biggest cash cow, - pay a Software Development Tax on your salary to keep the suite up to date, and - pay a bigger contribution to the EU to stop them from kicking us out FWIW, £100m would not come close to being enough - it would take billions over ten years or more. £100m would barely even set up the department to investigate if it was feasible... Ted Ferenc wrote: I use an old copy of Word for writing letters etc. and [other software] for everything elese that I need. Unfortuantely that isn't an option for many people and businesses that need to be able to do more with information than use a PC as a means to get stuff onto paper.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
The reason we buy any product or pay for a 'tradesman' to do a job for us is because it is cheaper/easier than doing it ourself or they have skills we don't have. If I was in charge of the health service, for example, I would work out if it is cheaper to buy all my software from company X or would it be cheaper to do it in house? In the UK most businesses have less than 50 employees all a PC is used for is to write letters/manuals and possibly to use a spreadsheet the more advanced ones may use email and the net
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." - Anatole France
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The reason we buy any product or pay for a 'tradesman' to do a job for us is because it is cheaper/easier than doing it ourself or they have skills we don't have. If I was in charge of the health service, for example, I would work out if it is cheaper to buy all my software from company X or would it be cheaper to do it in house? In the UK most businesses have less than 50 employees all a PC is used for is to write letters/manuals and possibly to use a spreadsheet the more advanced ones may use email and the net
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." - Anatole France
Ted Ferenc wrote: In the UK most businesses have less than 50 employees all a PC is used for is to write letters/manuals and possibly to use a spreadsheet the more advanced ones may use email and the net I don't agree that is most businesses at all. Around here (Devon, Southwest England) we are still quite an industrial area compared to the rest of the UK and are relatively lagging in the information age. Most businesses still have one or more connections to suppliers, automated sales and/or production lines, etc, managed by off-the-shelf packages suplemented with bespoke software where necessary. That's both manufacturing businesses and product and service industries (heck - even the local corner shop is entirely computer run using off-the-shelf stock management apps). Developing software in-house is a very risky and expensive option to take. Which is cheaper - £350k a year for a team of developers or £20k a year to upgrade systems and keep software up-to-date? Most businesses would rather take something from a store that does what it says on the box and comes with support (take Sage as an example - their software isn't the best but they come with at-cost support whenever you need it). Productivity is the main reason for any software package - otherwise they'd still use paper. Ted Ferenc wrote: If I was in charge of the health service, for example The NHS is slighlty larger than most employers... by a magnitude that must be getting close to tens of thousands. They can easily afford to support in-house software development.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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Ted Ferenc wrote: In the UK most businesses have less than 50 employees all a PC is used for is to write letters/manuals and possibly to use a spreadsheet the more advanced ones may use email and the net I don't agree that is most businesses at all. Around here (Devon, Southwest England) we are still quite an industrial area compared to the rest of the UK and are relatively lagging in the information age. Most businesses still have one or more connections to suppliers, automated sales and/or production lines, etc, managed by off-the-shelf packages suplemented with bespoke software where necessary. That's both manufacturing businesses and product and service industries (heck - even the local corner shop is entirely computer run using off-the-shelf stock management apps). Developing software in-house is a very risky and expensive option to take. Which is cheaper - £350k a year for a team of developers or £20k a year to upgrade systems and keep software up-to-date? Most businesses would rather take something from a store that does what it says on the box and comes with support (take Sage as an example - their software isn't the best but they come with at-cost support whenever you need it). Productivity is the main reason for any software package - otherwise they'd still use paper. Ted Ferenc wrote: If I was in charge of the health service, for example The NHS is slighlty larger than most employers... by a magnitude that must be getting close to tens of thousands. They can easily afford to support in-house software development.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
David Wulff wrote: Productivity is the main reason for any software package I remember when word processors first came out, out secretary who seemed to do very little left to have a baby at that time, she was replaced by a word processor, or should I say by 2.5 people using word processors. Productivity is not the main reason, a manual type writer does not require expensive support contracts or software upgrades, just needs a competant typist, word processors and PCs can be used by any staff, who probably can't type, so you don't need secreataries but I would question that is more productive. I agree stock control systems can be excellent, but I still yearn for the days when you went and asked fred the storeman for one of these thingies and he would go to the correct shelf and get it for you. Now you need the barcode or at the very least a part number. BTw http://www.lib.strath.ac.uk/busweb/guides/smedefine.htm states:- Statistics for 2003 published by the DTI SME Statistics Unit show that out of 3.7million businesses in the UK, 3.5 million are micro businesses with fewer than 10 employees. Firms with fewer than 50 employees constitute 99.2% of all UK enterprises
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." - Anatole France
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UK PRIMARY SCHOOLS could halve their IT budgets it they stopped buying Microsoft software, research carried . . . http://67.19.9.2/?article=23070 From 'The Inquirer'
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." - Anatole France