Mandatory military service
-
I could not disagree with you guys more. There is no correlation between military success and conscription. In fact, 'Voluteer' forces have historical performed far worse than conscripted ones. A volunteer army quickly becomes nothing but a force of mercenaries who fight for pay not for loyalty or principle. Ours will become that over time. Consider that the guys who took Omaha beach and Tarawa were virtally all conscripts. They performed well enough. True, a conscripted army will not perform well if not given a just cause to fight for. Compare WWII to Vietnam. But an army of mercenaries well do whatever they are told by the highest bidder. Is that what we want? I strongly believe that we need to return to a fair draft (one in which rich and poor alike are equally likely to be called). Everyone has a duty to thier country and should be required by law to fulfill that obligation. Military sevice might be optional, but some service of some type should be a requirement. The children of our society need to be taught what the word 'duty' means. "Thank you, thank you very much" Elvis.
What about the women? Shouldn't they get called too? It's equality remember! Why should men have to miss 1 year of college while the women get to go ahead of men and get their degrees :mad:. I think that if women want to be equal they should be forced to sign up for selective service when they turn 18 just like men. Because they are equal aren't they???? I :love: Microsoft and :bob:
-
Most of that territory was captured during the Republic period. Re: http://members.tripod.com/~S\_van\_Dorst/reparmy.html Hardly sounds like a professional army to me. "Thank you, thank you very much" Elvis.
Stan Shannon wrote: Most of that territory was captured during the Republic period ... with a professional army. We're not discussing here Republic vs Empire, but professionals vs amateurs. There was a professional army in Rome, even during the Republic (since III century BC) http://members.tripod.com/~S\_van\_Dorst/reparmy2.html I vote pro drink :beer:
-
Stan Shannon wrote: Most of that territory was captured during the Republic period ... with a professional army. We're not discussing here Republic vs Empire, but professionals vs amateurs. There was a professional army in Rome, even during the Republic (since III century BC) http://members.tripod.com/~S\_van\_Dorst/reparmy2.html I vote pro drink :beer:
I think you are way off. The Romans did not even think about having a standing professional army until the defeat of Hannibal (late 2nd century, if memory serves). And if I'm not mistaken the majority of the Army was still conscripted even in Caesar's time. The link I posted supports other reading I have done. However, I'm willing to be proven wrong. What are your sources? "Thank you, thank you very much" Elvis.
-
What about the women? Shouldn't they get called too? It's equality remember! Why should men have to miss 1 year of college while the women get to go ahead of men and get their degrees :mad:. I think that if women want to be equal they should be forced to sign up for selective service when they turn 18 just like men. Because they are equal aren't they???? I :love: Microsoft and :bob:
Hell, women would be the first ones I would draft. Maybe teach 'em to keep the mouth's shut about 'equality' for a while. "Thank you, thank you very much" Elvis.
-
I think you are way off. The Romans did not even think about having a standing professional army until the defeat of Hannibal (late 2nd century, if memory serves). And if I'm not mistaken the majority of the Army was still conscripted even in Caesar's time. The link I posted supports other reading I have done. However, I'm willing to be proven wrong. What are your sources? "Thank you, thank you very much" Elvis.
Stan Shannon wrote: The Romans did not even think about having a standing professional army until the defeat of Hannibal (late 2nd century, if memory serves). Hannibal was finaly defeated at Zama 202 BC, which is late 3rd century. Anyway, I'm not sure if Roman soldiers were conscripted or volunteers, but the fact that they served 25 years, and were payed for their duty makes them professional soldiers. I vote pro drink :beer:
-
Stan Shannon wrote: The Romans did not even think about having a standing professional army until the defeat of Hannibal (late 2nd century, if memory serves). Hannibal was finaly defeated at Zama 202 BC, which is late 3rd century. Anyway, I'm not sure if Roman soldiers were conscripted or volunteers, but the fact that they served 25 years, and were payed for their duty makes them professional soldiers. I vote pro drink :beer:
OK. I was thinking Hannibal was a century later, maybe I'm confusing his period with one of their civil wars. (I'm a programmer, dammit, not a historian!) Anyway, I guess it does depend on your definition of 'professional'. To me if you tell a guy he has to go and bring his own weapons he is a conscript. But, you are correct, if he has done nothing else for 25 years I suppose that qualifies him as a professional. "Thank you, thank you very much" Elvis.
-
OK. I was thinking Hannibal was a century later, maybe I'm confusing his period with one of their civil wars. (I'm a programmer, dammit, not a historian!) Anyway, I guess it does depend on your definition of 'professional'. To me if you tell a guy he has to go and bring his own weapons he is a conscript. But, you are correct, if he has done nothing else for 25 years I suppose that qualifies him as a professional. "Thank you, thank you very much" Elvis.
So, we can make peace, and forget about soldiers :) I vote pro drink :beer:
-
Came across this this morning: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.3598: I love this country. Screwball represenative wants to instate a mandantory 6 months to 1 year military service for all people between the ages of 18 and 22. I think one of the best things we have going in our military now is that it's a volunteer army. Who wants a bunch of pissed off angsty teens being forced to get military training? Just what the world needs, a bunch of Linkin' Park fans who know how to shoot.
Reno Tiko wrote: I think one of the best things we have going in our military now is that it's a volunteer army. Who wants a bunch of pissed off angsty teens being forced to get military training? Just what the world needs, a bunch of Linkin' Park fans who know how to shoot. Exactly, and if this is a free country how does this work? -:suss:Matt Newman:suss: -Sonork ID: 100.11179:BestSnowman Frankly AOL should stick to what it does best: Fooling millions of americans into believing that it, AOL, is the web. -Paul Watson
-
Came across this this morning: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.3598: I love this country. Screwball represenative wants to instate a mandantory 6 months to 1 year military service for all people between the ages of 18 and 22. I think one of the best things we have going in our military now is that it's a volunteer army. Who wants a bunch of pissed off angsty teens being forced to get military training? Just what the world needs, a bunch of Linkin' Park fans who know how to shoot.
I've seen a lot of bullshit in the replies to this message. And as one who is to be drafted next year, without any consideration to his own will I think I have a right to barge in. First of all there's no actual difference between both systems, the thing is how you run them. An army like here in Israel is not voluntary but still maintains good quality because the government does great work with propaganda raising "our" moral and patriotic feelings. They give "us" a cause, and if they don't then some stupid murderer blows up a bus a mile away from my home and reminds us that we can't sit idle. So our military CAN'T be voluntary. And while I'm not keen on serving I do understand that it's something we can't let go of. All of you saying "I'm not afraid being shot" that's because you're either stupid or never been to a situation where your life was in danger. I am afraid to be shot. I am afraid to get killed for no reason at age 18. I am afraid when tanks have to secure our capital city. I am afraid when the same bus I drive every day to school blows up. I am afraid when 2 soldiers are slaughtered by a whole village in front of Italian news cameras, filming the whole thing. I am afraid when missiles from Iraq crash on buildings 10 km from my home. Just the other day someone told me "imagine how it is like in other countries, when they don't have to check your bags when you go inside the mall". You don't know how it is to show your ID to prove you're not a murderer armed with explosives. You only see the big news, not the day-to-day effect on our lives. Most of you don't understand how it is when you HAVE to keep the quality of your army or else, one day, you just won't have a home. I got used to it of course, and I don't think it's so bad, it's not like we live in war zone or something. But there is always something interupting the day to day routine. I object forced military service in countries that don't need it, however I do believe some kind of contribution should be made. Here we have people who don't want to or can't serve in the military so they volunteer somewhere. Some in MDA (it's like the red cross), and others in a whole lot of places. I myself volunteer in MDA (but not instead of the military service) as a medic. I see a lot of harsh sights. I've seen death and worse in many occasions, I've seen stabings, GSW and other stuff. And I wouldn't want to experience even one bit of it on myself. Wake up and smell the coffee guys, before someone blows up your coffee-shop. Isaac Sasson,
-
I've seen a lot of bullshit in the replies to this message. And as one who is to be drafted next year, without any consideration to his own will I think I have a right to barge in. First of all there's no actual difference between both systems, the thing is how you run them. An army like here in Israel is not voluntary but still maintains good quality because the government does great work with propaganda raising "our" moral and patriotic feelings. They give "us" a cause, and if they don't then some stupid murderer blows up a bus a mile away from my home and reminds us that we can't sit idle. So our military CAN'T be voluntary. And while I'm not keen on serving I do understand that it's something we can't let go of. All of you saying "I'm not afraid being shot" that's because you're either stupid or never been to a situation where your life was in danger. I am afraid to be shot. I am afraid to get killed for no reason at age 18. I am afraid when tanks have to secure our capital city. I am afraid when the same bus I drive every day to school blows up. I am afraid when 2 soldiers are slaughtered by a whole village in front of Italian news cameras, filming the whole thing. I am afraid when missiles from Iraq crash on buildings 10 km from my home. Just the other day someone told me "imagine how it is like in other countries, when they don't have to check your bags when you go inside the mall". You don't know how it is to show your ID to prove you're not a murderer armed with explosives. You only see the big news, not the day-to-day effect on our lives. Most of you don't understand how it is when you HAVE to keep the quality of your army or else, one day, you just won't have a home. I got used to it of course, and I don't think it's so bad, it's not like we live in war zone or something. But there is always something interupting the day to day routine. I object forced military service in countries that don't need it, however I do believe some kind of contribution should be made. Here we have people who don't want to or can't serve in the military so they volunteer somewhere. Some in MDA (it's like the red cross), and others in a whole lot of places. I myself volunteer in MDA (but not instead of the military service) as a medic. I see a lot of harsh sights. I've seen death and worse in many occasions, I've seen stabings, GSW and other stuff. And I wouldn't want to experience even one bit of it on myself. Wake up and smell the coffee guys, before someone blows up your coffee-shop. Isaac Sasson,
> it's not like we live in war zone or something. Asked with respect, but what would you call it? From the outside looking in I see checkpoints, troops on the street, random skirmishing with mortors and small arms and then vile carnage delivered by something loud and mean. >All of you saying "I'm not afraid being shot" that's because you're either stupid or never been to a situation where your life was in danger. Not true on both counts. I am afraid of living with soldiers on my streets. I'm afraid of having to show my nationalized ID card to satisfy the whim of an official while walking down the street. I'm afraid of having a stranger search my belongings every time I go shopping. I'm afraid that people will accept it as normal and move on with their lives. Most of all I'm afraid my mother, my father, my sister, my brother, and my neices and nephews will not have the ability to live in a place where they have the ability to excersise thier free will. I'm not afraid because of all those reasons I just mentioned and because I know that if I doing my job to prevent those things from happening requires me to enter harms way, I'll go back again. I'm not afraid of being shot.