Three sisters age 12 to 16 each have a baby
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"T-Jay"?!! As if the poor kid isn't going to have enough problems...
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
That was the best of the three names. The others "Amani" and "Lita" are, in my opinion, worse.
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Still, that doesn't change the fact that a population becoming ever more dependent upon the state for its welfare have less need to be concerned with the consequencies of their behavior. These girls all knew well enough that the state will be there to fill the roll of "father" for their children. They didn 't have to be concerned with how they were going to provide for themselves once the child was born. You can criticize "traditional" culture all you want, but you have to have something better to replace it with. And you have to be blind not to observe that liberalism/socialism or what ever you wish to call it is makeing the problem worse and not better. Human social organization has evolved over hundreds of thousands of years. To suggest that abortion and birth control can suddenly be used as an alternative to that organization is ludicrous. Men need to understand that there is a price for having sex - responsibility for a child and a wife and women need to understand that their price is some degree of dependency upon their child's father. That has shown itself to be an altogether workable system for countless generations. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Do you really think a 12 years old girl will decide to have a kid because she believes she will be helped by the State? Stan Shannon wrote: And you have to be blind not to observe that liberalism/socialism or what ever you wish to call it is makeing the problem worse and not better. Any data to corroborate your prejudice?
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Do you really think a 12 years old girl will decide to have a kid because she believes she will be helped by the State? Stan Shannon wrote: And you have to be blind not to observe that liberalism/socialism or what ever you wish to call it is makeing the problem worse and not better. Any data to corroborate your prejudice?
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Fold with us!K(arl) wrote: Do you really think a 12 years old girl will decide to have a kid because she believes she will be helped by the State? I certainly think she could be easily influenced by her two older sisters and other older girls in her society - and they were certainly old enough. I think that such cultural decay trickles down much more quickly and deeply than the left is willing to acknowledge. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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K(arl) wrote: Do you really think a 12 years old girl will decide to have a kid because she believes she will be helped by the State? I certainly think she could be easily influenced by her two older sisters and other older girls in her society - and they were certainly old enough. I think that such cultural decay trickles down much more quickly and deeply than the left is willing to acknowledge. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Come on, girls who aren't even able to use contraceptive means have no clue about social welfare. Stan Shannon wrote: I think that such cultural decay trickles down much more quickly and deeply than the left is willing to acknowledge Then explain why "Although the rate of teenage pregnancy in the United States has been declining, it remains the highest in the developed world. Approximately 97 per 1,000 women aged 15–19 — one million American teenagers — become pregnant each year. The majority of these pregnancies — 78 percent — are unintended"[^]. Explain also why Germany has "a teenage birth rate which is more than four times lower than that of the U.S", and why "France's teenage birth rate is approximately six times lower than that of the U.S.".
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Still, that doesn't change the fact that a population becoming ever more dependent upon the state for its welfare have less need to be concerned with the consequencies of their behavior. These girls all knew well enough that the state will be there to fill the roll of "father" for their children. They didn 't have to be concerned with how they were going to provide for themselves once the child was born. You can criticize "traditional" culture all you want, but you have to have something better to replace it with. And you have to be blind not to observe that liberalism/socialism or what ever you wish to call it is makeing the problem worse and not better. Human social organization has evolved over hundreds of thousands of years. To suggest that abortion and birth control can suddenly be used as an alternative to that organization is ludicrous. Men need to understand that there is a price for having sex - responsibility for a child and a wife and women need to understand that their price is some degree of dependency upon their child's father. That has shown itself to be an altogether workable system for countless generations. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: Still, that doesn't change the fact that a population becoming ever more dependent upon the state for its welfare have less need to be concerned with the consequencies of their behavior. These girls all knew well enough that the state will be there to fill the roll of "father" for their children. They didn 't have to be concerned with how they were going to provide for themselves once the child was born. Agreed, completely. Stan Shannon wrote: Human social organization has evolved over hundreds of thousands of years. Adolecence is a modern creation. Our society requires children to be educated long past the age at which they become biologicaly capable of reproduction (and in the past, full time employment). We therefore have an imperative to prevent the young becoming pregnant before they reach the age at which they are financialy and psychologicaly capable of doing so, and lets be honest, that's probably going to be pushing 25. Stan Shannon wrote: To suggest that abortion and birth control can suddenly be used as an alternative to that organization is ludicrous. It works for me and my girlfriend, we live as man and wife, she uses an implant to chemicaly supress her fertility. In the event of it failing we would most likely opt for an abortion (for the forseeable future). I see no reason why long term contraceptives should not be offered to girls (and if a simlilar method makes it out of testing, to boys) when they reach sexual maturity. No one can reasonably function as a parent at that age. I'm unsure as to whether carrying a baby full term when financialy incabable of supporting it is percieved as an easy option for those who take is as much as it is by others. Remembering my flight from my family at the age of 16 into the welcoming arms of the state, that 30 pounds a week didn't seem like a livable ammount of money after a damn short period of time and I didn't have a baby to support. This is also a peculiarly Anglo-Saxon problem, many countries in Europe with far more generous welfare states do not suffer from this problem in any way near the same degree as the UK and US. Some other options are of course; wide scale sexual repression and other faith based initiatives such as the Magdaline Laundries, mandatory abortions along the lines of China and other unpleasantly authoritarian alternatives. Ryan
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Come on, girls who aren't even able to use contraceptive means have no clue about social welfare. Stan Shannon wrote: I think that such cultural decay trickles down much more quickly and deeply than the left is willing to acknowledge Then explain why "Although the rate of teenage pregnancy in the United States has been declining, it remains the highest in the developed world. Approximately 97 per 1,000 women aged 15–19 — one million American teenagers — become pregnant each year. The majority of these pregnancies — 78 percent — are unintended"[^]. Explain also why Germany has "a teenage birth rate which is more than four times lower than that of the U.S", and why "France's teenage birth rate is approximately six times lower than that of the U.S.".
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Fold with us!K(arl) wrote: Come on, girls who aren't even able to use contraceptive means have no clue about social welfare Perhaps not specifically, but I think they have an innate understanding that someone else will clean up after them. BW
I want pancakes! God, do you people understand every language except English?
Yo quiero pancakes. Donnez moi pancakes. Click click, bloody click pancakes!
-- Stewie Griffin -
That was the best of the three names. The others "Amani" and "Lita" are, in my opinion, worse.
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Well, they're all pretty bad. And honestly, "T-Jay" will likely cause fewer problems in face-to-face conversation. But which one do you think will be most often "corrected" by phone reps, teachers, bureacrats...
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
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K(arl) wrote: Come on, girls who aren't even able to use contraceptive means have no clue about social welfare Perhaps not specifically, but I think they have an innate understanding that someone else will clean up after them. BW
I want pancakes! God, do you people understand every language except English?
Yo quiero pancakes. Donnez moi pancakes. Click click, bloody click pancakes!
-- Stewie Griffinbrianwelsch wrote: they have an innate understanding that someone else will clean up after them. well sure, they're children. children can reasonably be expected to think the world (usually in the form of their parents) will clean up after them. Cleek | Image Toolkits | Thumbnail maker
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K(arl) wrote: Come on, girls who aren't even able to use contraceptive means have no clue about social welfare Perhaps not specifically, but I think they have an innate understanding that someone else will clean up after them. BW
I want pancakes! God, do you people understand every language except English?
Yo quiero pancakes. Donnez moi pancakes. Click click, bloody click pancakes!
-- Stewie Griffinbrianwelsch wrote: Perhaps not specifically, but I think they have an innate understanding that someone else will clean up after them. Harsh as it is, i think seeing a few friends having to suddenly put school and social interaction on a far back burner would be a lot more of a deterrent at that age than anything else. And i'm not just talking about the girls here. :|
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
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Do you really think a 12 years old girl will decide to have a kid because she believes she will be helped by the State? Stan Shannon wrote: And you have to be blind not to observe that liberalism/socialism or what ever you wish to call it is makeing the problem worse and not better. Any data to corroborate your prejudice?
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Fold with us!K(arl) wrote: Do you really think a 12 years old girl will decide to have a kid because she believes she will be helped by the State? Sure, if that is what she has been taught at home. Some families have taught their offspring for generations how to be nothing more than parasites. There is no incentive to do better. They have a "If someone else is footing the bill, why wouldn't I?" attitude.
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
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K(arl) wrote: Come on, girls who aren't even able to use contraceptive means have no clue about social welfare Perhaps not specifically, but I think they have an innate understanding that someone else will clean up after them. BW
I want pancakes! God, do you people understand every language except English?
Yo quiero pancakes. Donnez moi pancakes. Click click, bloody click pancakes!
-- Stewie GriffinExcuse me Brian, but BS. When a kid becomes pregnant, this indicates a serious problem, either in the education or a psychological distress (abuses excepted). Claiming that the State is responsible for teenage pregnancies is having the same discourse than the mother of these poor 3 girls: it is being irresponsible.
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K(arl) wrote: Do you really think a 12 years old girl will decide to have a kid because she believes she will be helped by the State? Sure, if that is what she has been taught at home. Some families have taught their offspring for generations how to be nothing more than parasites. There is no incentive to do better. They have a "If someone else is footing the bill, why wouldn't I?" attitude.
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
Yeah, and pigs fly.
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"T-Jay"?!! As if the poor kid isn't going to have enough problems...
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
we all call my litle niece TJ (although it is short for Toni Jackson) :-D
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Yeah, and pigs fly.
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Fold with us!I fail to see the point of your post. :confused:
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
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Come on, girls who aren't even able to use contraceptive means have no clue about social welfare. Stan Shannon wrote: I think that such cultural decay trickles down much more quickly and deeply than the left is willing to acknowledge Then explain why "Although the rate of teenage pregnancy in the United States has been declining, it remains the highest in the developed world. Approximately 97 per 1,000 women aged 15–19 — one million American teenagers — become pregnant each year. The majority of these pregnancies — 78 percent — are unintended"[^]. Explain also why Germany has "a teenage birth rate which is more than four times lower than that of the U.S", and why "France's teenage birth rate is approximately six times lower than that of the U.S.".
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Fold with us!K(arl) wrote: Come on, girls who aren't even able to use contraceptive means have no clue about social welfare. Yes, they do. It becomes a basic perspective of their world view from a very early age becasue it is a component of their culture. "I don't need a husband becasue I have the state as a substitute" You don't need to be very old for that to be understandable. K(arl) wrote: Then explain why "Although the rate of teenage pregnancy in the United States has been declining, it remains the highest in the developed world. Approximately 97 per 1,000 women aged 15–19 — one million American teenagers — become pregnant each year. The majority of these pregnancies — 78 percent — are unintended"[^]. Explain also why Germany has "a teenage birth rate which is more than four times lower than that of the U.S", and why "France's teenage birth rate is approximately six times lower than that of the U.S.". When speaking of the "rates" in the US you have to be more specific about which area in the US and which population group. Otherwise any comparison is meaningless. For example, in my son's high school, there is not a single pregnant girl or a girl with a child. None. And I can assure you that they probably get less "sexual education" than do those in much larger urban schools where pregnancy rates are much, much higher. To the extent that the differences between the US and Europe are legitimate, I will agreee that it is, in fact, probably due to the massive effort those governments go to in order to ensure that children are properly indoctrinated into a secular social order where birth control of all types is not merely easily available but vitrually considered a social duty to use. However, I see none of this as a solution to the issue. Firstly, not only have birth rates in general declined in Europe but so have almost any notion of tradiontal social relationships such as marriage. What is the result? Merely making more room for those populations in the middle east and else where that do not subscribe to such nonsense at all. So what have you really accomplished beyond the elimination of your own ethnicity altogether? The population continues to grow unabated. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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I fail to see the point of your post. :confused:
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
DavidCrow wrote: I fail to see the point of your post. State centric, as in, "it takes a village" Mike "liberals were driven crazy by Bush." Me To: Dixie Sluts, M. Moore, the Boss, Bon Jovi, Clooney, Penn, Babs, Soros, Redford, Gore, Daschle - "bye bye" Me "I voted for W." Me "There you go again." RR "Flushed the Johns" Me K(arl) wrote: Date:8:50 23 Feb '05 I love you.
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I fail to see the point of your post. :confused:
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
"Some families have taught their offspring for generations how to be nothing more than parasites" is the standard argument of right wingers claiming that these bastards of poor people are just lazy people living at their expense. This cliché runs for a while, especially among the people who have no idea of what is the life of the ones living with minimal resources. Of course, the behaviour you describes happens, but it is much more an exception than the rule.
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Three schoolgirl sisters have given birth aged 12, 14 and 16.[^] The mother of the sisters blames poor sex-education in school. I wish people would stop living in a blame society and take some responsibility for their actions.
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K(arl) wrote: Come on, girls who aren't even able to use contraceptive means have no clue about social welfare. Yes, they do. It becomes a basic perspective of their world view from a very early age becasue it is a component of their culture. "I don't need a husband becasue I have the state as a substitute" You don't need to be very old for that to be understandable. K(arl) wrote: Then explain why "Although the rate of teenage pregnancy in the United States has been declining, it remains the highest in the developed world. Approximately 97 per 1,000 women aged 15–19 — one million American teenagers — become pregnant each year. The majority of these pregnancies — 78 percent — are unintended"[^]. Explain also why Germany has "a teenage birth rate which is more than four times lower than that of the U.S", and why "France's teenage birth rate is approximately six times lower than that of the U.S.". When speaking of the "rates" in the US you have to be more specific about which area in the US and which population group. Otherwise any comparison is meaningless. For example, in my son's high school, there is not a single pregnant girl or a girl with a child. None. And I can assure you that they probably get less "sexual education" than do those in much larger urban schools where pregnancy rates are much, much higher. To the extent that the differences between the US and Europe are legitimate, I will agreee that it is, in fact, probably due to the massive effort those governments go to in order to ensure that children are properly indoctrinated into a secular social order where birth control of all types is not merely easily available but vitrually considered a social duty to use. However, I see none of this as a solution to the issue. Firstly, not only have birth rates in general declined in Europe but so have almost any notion of tradiontal social relationships such as marriage. What is the result? Merely making more room for those populations in the middle east and else where that do not subscribe to such nonsense at all. So what have you really accomplished beyond the elimination of your own ethnicity altogether? The population continues to grow unabated. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: Otherwise any comparison is meaningless Do you mean the US isn't a nation but a superposition of heterogeneous populations, or are you trying to exclude some categories to get the right numbers? Stan Shannon wrote: I will agreee that it is, in fact, probably due to the massive effort those governments go to in order to ensure that children are properly indoctrinated into a secular social order where birth control of all types is not merely easily available but vitrually considered a social duty to use. So you agree than when a society has a rigid moral instead of a good education, the result is disastrous on the youth Stan Shannon wrote: Firstly, not only have birth rates in general declined in Europe I don't see the point to have a high birth rate if it is made of unwanted children: this will lead to much more societal problems. Stan Shannon wrote: your own ethnicity altogether Ethnicity?? What do you mean? Purity of the Race? My country is made by a mix of different populations for more than 5,000 years, I don't see why that should change now. And we are going away from the original topic.
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"Some families have taught their offspring for generations how to be nothing more than parasites" is the standard argument of right wingers claiming that these bastards of poor people are just lazy people living at their expense. This cliché runs for a while, especially among the people who have no idea of what is the life of the ones living with minimal resources. Of course, the behaviour you describes happens, but it is much more an exception than the rule.
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Fold with us!K(arl) wrote: "Some families have taught their offspring for generations how to be nothing more than parasites" is the standard argument Having seen and worked first hand with this type of lifestyle and teaching, Welfare included, it is not an argument. The families themselves will tell you flat out that they have no intention of changing. It's a shame, really. Maybe you don't have this type of problem in France, but it is ever present in the U.S. K(arl) wrote: This cliché runs for a while, especially among the people who have no idea... True, most people don't. Do you?
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown