Three sisters age 12 to 16 each have a baby
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K(arl) wrote: Do you mean the US isn't a nation but a superposition of heterogeneous populations, or are you trying to exclude some categories to get the right numbers? I'm saying that comparing Middletown, IN to Los Angelos, CA is like comparing Greece to Ireland - there are many factors that have to be calcualted into the equation to understand the differences. K(arl) wrote: So you agree than when a society has a rigid moral instead of a good education, the result is disastrous on the youth I'm saying that disasters come in many forms. The children of Middletown, IN are not suffering from a disaster on any kind. They come from strong stable, church going families and are taught the concept of personal responsibility. K(arl) wrote: Ethnicity?? What do you mean? Purity of the Race? I mean race and everything that comes with it - culture, tradition, art, language. Your country, as with all others, may be a mixture of many invading races, but I can assure you that every invasion was met with opposition and that opposition assured the survival of the better parts of what had existed before. Your population will be naturally replaced by one that does not subsribe to your fine secular moral principles on birth control and your legacy will be something of a grand historic joke. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: I'm saying that disasters come in many forms. The children of Middletown, IN are not suffering from a disaster on any kind. They come from strong stable, church going families and are taught the concept of personal responsibility. Or they simply "disappear" for a year, sent off to a special school for unwed mothers where they continue school separated from society for 9+ months and return the following school year, and no one speaks about what happened... ever. Lots of things happen when you first say "it never happens here" because you have to prove it never happens by changing the rules. For the Southwest, that particular school for such girls is outside of dallas. The children are automatically given up for adoption, no choice to the girl, as it would destroy the reputation of the town when they return. I don't know the right solution, but a lot gets hidden in the communities that cannot admit that this occurs, and that isn't all together healthy either. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I just heard that song on the radio yesterday! I've always liked that song but I think that I appreciate the lyrics more now than I did back when it came out. :) BTW, What is the name/artist of that song? -J
Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun). -Eddie Izzard
Flag pole sitta - Harvey Danger It sticks in my mind because a band we know well plays it at every gig. Actually it's wierd but I heard a lot of songs for the first time played by the band and when I hear the original it doesn't sound "right".
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office." - Ambrose Bierce
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I'm glad someone saw the humour in that, I was half expecting to just get the usual bunch of low votes and that would be that.
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
David Wulff wrote: I'm glad someone saw the humour in that, I was half expecting to just get the usual bunch of low votes and that would be that. why would someone downgrade you for that? heck even I, your local two time divorced guy didn't vote a 1. Guilty as charged, though it is more complicated than that, still it wasn't worth a 1 vote, I don't do that THAT often. If you fear being alone, challenge the fear, be alone. :) it's better than a 3rd divorce. ;) _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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David Wulff wrote: I'm glad someone saw the humour in that, I was half expecting to just get the usual bunch of low votes and that would be that. why would someone downgrade you for that? heck even I, your local two time divorced guy didn't vote a 1. Guilty as charged, though it is more complicated than that, still it wasn't worth a 1 vote, I don't do that THAT often. If you fear being alone, challenge the fear, be alone. :) it's better than a 3rd divorce. ;) _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
I mentioned a certain country in the same sentance as a) something that is not a Good Thing, and b) toungue-in-cheek humour. That is usually a death warrant round here. :rolleyes:
Ðavid Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Audioscrobbler :: flickrDie Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen
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All I'm saying is there is a problem with kids not being taught to take responsibility for their actions or to consider consequences before they act. I didn't place blame anywhere (except maybe on the children). Having said that, I don't think all children are capable* of learning how to make informed responsible decisions. Some people don't learn to do that when they are adults. Basically, it's an issue that will remain an issue for a long time. Nothing the state can provide will protect individuals from making stupid decisions, though it might be able to make situations appear more palatable to those not directly involved. * By capable, I don't mean they have some fundemental deficiency, but that they haven't the experience or maturity yet to make good decisions. BW
I want pancakes! God, do you people understand every language except English?
Yo quiero pancakes. Donnez moi pancakes. Click click, bloody click pancakes!
-- Stewie GriffinI misunderstood you then and globally agree with you, except when you say that you don't think all children are capable of learning. On the contrary, I believe all children are capable to learn once found an appropriate pedagogy. Most of the time, this pedagogy would be to let the children learn by themselves rather than impose rules on them they don't understand. brianwelsch wrote: Nothing the state can provide will protect individuals from making stupid decisions Almost agreed. The State can't protect individuals (and it shouldn't, the freedom being also the freedom to make mistakes), but it can help them to learn, by providing adapted educational means for all.
Fold with us!
All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets - Voltaire, 1694-1778 -
K(arl) wrote: "Some families have taught their offspring for generations how to be nothing more than parasites" is the standard argument Having seen and worked first hand with this type of lifestyle and teaching, Welfare included, it is not an argument. The families themselves will tell you flat out that they have no intention of changing. It's a shame, really. Maybe you don't have this type of problem in France, but it is ever present in the U.S. K(arl) wrote: This cliché runs for a while, especially among the people who have no idea... True, most people don't. Do you?
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
DavidCrow wrote: Maybe you don't have this type of problem in France, but it is ever present in the U.S. It exists there too, but from my experience, I don't believe it is the majority of cases. DavidCrow wrote: True, most people don't. Do you? I think so, but I may be presumptuous.
Fold with us!
All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets - Voltaire, 1694-1778 -
K(arl) wrote: This cliché runs for a while, especially among the people who have no idea of what is the life of the ones living with minimal resources. FWIW, i have a reasonably good idea of what it takes to live with minimal resources. It often isn't much fun. But it's no excuse for abject stupidity. I will accept no opinion hinting that it takes a high level of education to figure out that if you neglect your kids to spend your Gov't cheque on meth, you're gonna quickly lose both. And your kids are gonna grow up fucked.
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
Shog9 wrote: But it's no excuse for abject stupidity Who said it was? Shog9 wrote: if you neglect your kids to spend your Gov't cheque on meth I'm not sure such behaviour is caused by stupidity. Also, I don't think removing the cheques will provide a viable solution. When people are involved in such an aberrant behaviour, I doubt they can be convinced by logical arguments. Let's build less jails, put less money in a repressive system, and invest more in education and psychological/behavioral help: IMO, this might be a more efficient solution.
Fold with us!
All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets - Voltaire, 1694-1778 -
K(arl) wrote: Do you mean the US isn't a nation but a superposition of heterogeneous populations, or are you trying to exclude some categories to get the right numbers? I'm saying that comparing Middletown, IN to Los Angelos, CA is like comparing Greece to Ireland - there are many factors that have to be calcualted into the equation to understand the differences. K(arl) wrote: So you agree than when a society has a rigid moral instead of a good education, the result is disastrous on the youth I'm saying that disasters come in many forms. The children of Middletown, IN are not suffering from a disaster on any kind. They come from strong stable, church going families and are taught the concept of personal responsibility. K(arl) wrote: Ethnicity?? What do you mean? Purity of the Race? I mean race and everything that comes with it - culture, tradition, art, language. Your country, as with all others, may be a mixture of many invading races, but I can assure you that every invasion was met with opposition and that opposition assured the survival of the better parts of what had existed before. Your population will be naturally replaced by one that does not subsribe to your fine secular moral principles on birth control and your legacy will be something of a grand historic joke. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: culture, tradition, art, language To be alive these elements needs to move, transform, evolve. Such things are possible by integration of new elements. Stan Shannon wrote: may be a mixture of many invading races There is no race except the Human Race. Stan Shannon wrote: Your population will be naturally replaced by one that does not subsribe to your fine secular moral principles on birth control and your legacy will be something of a grand historic joke You aren't a reverend anymore, you're a prophet now?
Fold with us!
All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets - Voltaire, 1694-1778 -
K(arl) wrote: Do you mean the US isn't a nation but a superposition of heterogeneous populations, or are you trying to exclude some categories to get the right numbers? I'm saying that comparing Middletown, IN to Los Angelos, CA is like comparing Greece to Ireland - there are many factors that have to be calcualted into the equation to understand the differences. K(arl) wrote: So you agree than when a society has a rigid moral instead of a good education, the result is disastrous on the youth I'm saying that disasters come in many forms. The children of Middletown, IN are not suffering from a disaster on any kind. They come from strong stable, church going families and are taught the concept of personal responsibility. K(arl) wrote: Ethnicity?? What do you mean? Purity of the Race? I mean race and everything that comes with it - culture, tradition, art, language. Your country, as with all others, may be a mixture of many invading races, but I can assure you that every invasion was met with opposition and that opposition assured the survival of the better parts of what had existed before. Your population will be naturally replaced by one that does not subsribe to your fine secular moral principles on birth control and your legacy will be something of a grand historic joke. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: I mean race and everything that comes with it - culture, tradition, art, language. Your country, as with all others, may be a mixture of many invading races, but I can assure you that every invasion was met with opposition and that opposition assured the survival of the better parts of what had existed before. Kind of like the Native American tribes that happened to be on this continent, but were never considered "owners." Those that attempted to "oppose invasion" as you put were considered the worst criminals that existed. Those who chose not to "oppose invasion" were considered the worst criminals that ever existed. Those who chose not to convert their religion, were killed for it. Those who translated the bible into their own language, were killed for it. Those who spoke the name of God as "The Great Spirit" or "The Great Father" or "The Great Mystery" were killed for it. Those who spoke their own language, expressed their culture, were starved, beaten or killed for it. Those who chose not to cloth themselves, were fed to the dogs and the children hung from the trees as a message to other tribes to be more "moral". Something "pure and natural" and of "moral principles" like that? X| _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Would I get beat up for making the obvious association between this and liberalism in general? When the state takes over being parent, we no longer need traditional morality. The state will always forgive us of our sins (well, I mean unless we insult someone's race or culture or something) "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Why do I always get the impressions in your posts that you think "liberalism" is the same as "socialism"? Just to let you know, it is NOT! At least not here in Europe. People believing in "liberalism" are far away from thinking that government is responsible for everything and should help/pay everyone. Indeed, it's the other way round. People believing in "liberalism" at first believe that everybody is free to do what ever he wants (as long as he stays within the laws) but therefore also everybody is responsible for his own life and also some basic stuff should be covered by government. What is completly different to what socialists think. So why are you always mixing those things up? Of course, as socialist do, liberal people have quite different opinions than politicians like George W. Bush (for example according the connection of religion and government), so they have some common things that seem to be oposite to your own believes, but that doesn't make them the same. So can you please stop messing things up and putting us liberals into the same pot as you put socialists? thanx Claudio Claudio's Website Hommingberger Gepardenforelle
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Stan Shannon wrote: I mean race and everything that comes with it - culture, tradition, art, language. Your country, as with all others, may be a mixture of many invading races, but I can assure you that every invasion was met with opposition and that opposition assured the survival of the better parts of what had existed before. Kind of like the Native American tribes that happened to be on this continent, but were never considered "owners." Those that attempted to "oppose invasion" as you put were considered the worst criminals that existed. Those who chose not to "oppose invasion" were considered the worst criminals that ever existed. Those who chose not to convert their religion, were killed for it. Those who translated the bible into their own language, were killed for it. Those who spoke the name of God as "The Great Spirit" or "The Great Father" or "The Great Mystery" were killed for it. Those who spoke their own language, expressed their culture, were starved, beaten or killed for it. Those who chose not to cloth themselves, were fed to the dogs and the children hung from the trees as a message to other tribes to be more "moral". Something "pure and natural" and of "moral principles" like that? X| _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote: Kind of like the Native American tribes that happened to be on this continent, but were never considered "owners." Those that attempted to "oppose invasion" as you put were considered the worst criminals that existed. Those who chose not to "oppose invasion" were considered the worst criminals that ever existed. Those who chose not to convert their religion, were killed for it. Those who translated the bible into their own language, were killed for it. Those who spoke the name of God as "The Great Spirit" or "The Great Father" or "The Great Mystery" were killed for it. Those who spoke their own language, expressed their culture, were starved, beaten or killed for it. Those who chose not to cloth themselves, were fed to the dogs and the children hung from the trees as a message to other tribes to be more "moral". I doubt you really know as much as you think you do concerning white-indian relations. But regardless, they were pretty much doing all of that to each other long before we ever invaded the place, and which we were doing to each other in Europe long before we invaded here. Human brutality did not begin with the European conguest of the Americas - all cultures throughout history appear to have been very good at it. At least the Indians had brains enough to resist - unlike some modern societies I could (and have) mentioned. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Stan Shannon wrote: culture, tradition, art, language To be alive these elements needs to move, transform, evolve. Such things are possible by integration of new elements. Stan Shannon wrote: may be a mixture of many invading races There is no race except the Human Race. Stan Shannon wrote: Your population will be naturally replaced by one that does not subsribe to your fine secular moral principles on birth control and your legacy will be something of a grand historic joke You aren't a reverend anymore, you're a prophet now?
Fold with us!
All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets - Voltaire, 1694-1778K(arl) wrote: To be alive these elements needs to move, transform, evolve. Such things are possible by integration of new elements. Remember that as you're bowing to Mecca. K(arl) wrote: There is no race except the Human Race. A thoroughly western concept - one that will soon be gone. K(arl) wrote: You aren't a reverend anymore, you're a prophet now? Doesn't take ESP to see a train coming straight at you. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Stan Shannon wrote: I'm saying that disasters come in many forms. The children of Middletown, IN are not suffering from a disaster on any kind. They come from strong stable, church going families and are taught the concept of personal responsibility. Or they simply "disappear" for a year, sent off to a special school for unwed mothers where they continue school separated from society for 9+ months and return the following school year, and no one speaks about what happened... ever. Lots of things happen when you first say "it never happens here" because you have to prove it never happens by changing the rules. For the Southwest, that particular school for such girls is outside of dallas. The children are automatically given up for adoption, no choice to the girl, as it would destroy the reputation of the town when they return. I don't know the right solution, but a lot gets hidden in the communities that cannot admit that this occurs, and that isn't all together healthy either. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Nope. Haven't noticed any of the girls disappearing lately. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Why do I always get the impressions in your posts that you think "liberalism" is the same as "socialism"? Just to let you know, it is NOT! At least not here in Europe. People believing in "liberalism" are far away from thinking that government is responsible for everything and should help/pay everyone. Indeed, it's the other way round. People believing in "liberalism" at first believe that everybody is free to do what ever he wants (as long as he stays within the laws) but therefore also everybody is responsible for his own life and also some basic stuff should be covered by government. What is completly different to what socialists think. So why are you always mixing those things up? Of course, as socialist do, liberal people have quite different opinions than politicians like George W. Bush (for example according the connection of religion and government), so they have some common things that seem to be oposite to your own believes, but that doesn't make them the same. So can you please stop messing things up and putting us liberals into the same pot as you put socialists? thanx Claudio Claudio's Website Hommingberger Gepardenforelle
I think most political terms no longer nave any meaning. In fact, I think that I am a "liberal" in the original meaning of that word - ie someone who believes that government should be small and non-intrusive and that people should be free to live their own lives in their own way. But, at least in the US, those who discribe themselves as "liberal" are, in fact, socialist. Therefore, I describe myself as a conservative simply to make a distinction. In the US, the socialist have tried to pass themselves off as liberals, knowing that the American people will always reject socialism out of hand - the socialist have hi-jacked liberalism in the US, hence the problem. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote: Kind of like the Native American tribes that happened to be on this continent, but were never considered "owners." Those that attempted to "oppose invasion" as you put were considered the worst criminals that existed. Those who chose not to "oppose invasion" were considered the worst criminals that ever existed. Those who chose not to convert their religion, were killed for it. Those who translated the bible into their own language, were killed for it. Those who spoke the name of God as "The Great Spirit" or "The Great Father" or "The Great Mystery" were killed for it. Those who spoke their own language, expressed their culture, were starved, beaten or killed for it. Those who chose not to cloth themselves, were fed to the dogs and the children hung from the trees as a message to other tribes to be more "moral". I doubt you really know as much as you think you do concerning white-indian relations. But regardless, they were pretty much doing all of that to each other long before we ever invaded the place, and which we were doing to each other in Europe long before we invaded here. Human brutality did not begin with the European conguest of the Americas - all cultures throughout history appear to have been very good at it. At least the Indians had brains enough to resist - unlike some modern societies I could (and have) mentioned. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: I doubt you really know as much as you think you do concerning white-indian relations. But regardless, they were pretty much doing all of that to each other long before we ever invaded the place, and which we were doing to each other in Europe long before we invaded here. Human brutality did not begin with the European conguest of the Americas - all cultures throughout history appear to have been very good at it. Actually I think from your statements it is you who do not know that much at all. If they had been "doing that" the continent would have already been abandoned. Those who believed in fighting for their territories were killed, they were few. Those who believed in not killing others, were enslaved, and as I said, those who did not believe in clothing were simply killed outright as immoral. I sincerely doubt you know what was done, how long it continued, or how cruel it was. The society of people who developed their own written language the fastest in all the history of this planet was on this continent. We sent them on the trail of tears. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I think most political terms no longer nave any meaning. In fact, I think that I am a "liberal" in the original meaning of that word - ie someone who believes that government should be small and non-intrusive and that people should be free to live their own lives in their own way. But, at least in the US, those who discribe themselves as "liberal" are, in fact, socialist. Therefore, I describe myself as a conservative simply to make a distinction. In the US, the socialist have tried to pass themselves off as liberals, knowing that the American people will always reject socialism out of hand - the socialist have hi-jacked liberalism in the US, hence the problem. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: In fact, I think that I am a "liberal" in the original meaning of that word - ie someone who believes that government should be small and non-intrusive and that people should be free to live their own lives in their own way. That's what I think of me too. And that's why I always feel a bit offended when you use what seems to be todays American version of the world "liberal". But at least I know now why you use that word this way. Claudio Claudio's Website Hommingberger Gepardenforelle
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Shog9 wrote: But it's no excuse for abject stupidity Who said it was? Shog9 wrote: if you neglect your kids to spend your Gov't cheque on meth I'm not sure such behaviour is caused by stupidity. Also, I don't think removing the cheques will provide a viable solution. When people are involved in such an aberrant behaviour, I doubt they can be convinced by logical arguments. Let's build less jails, put less money in a repressive system, and invest more in education and psychological/behavioral help: IMO, this might be a more efficient solution.
Fold with us!
All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets - Voltaire, 1694-1778K(arl) wrote: I'm not sure such behaviour is caused by stupidity. I'm fairly sure it isn't. The behavior is stupidity... The cause is something else. And i don't mean lack of funds to buy better drugs... K(arl) wrote: Let's build less jails, put less money in a repressive system, and invest more in education and psychological/behavioral help: IMO, this might be a more efficient solution. I didn't suggest any other solution, so i'm not knocking yours. The prison population here is truely astounding. That said, the education is out there...
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
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Stan Shannon wrote: I doubt you really know as much as you think you do concerning white-indian relations. But regardless, they were pretty much doing all of that to each other long before we ever invaded the place, and which we were doing to each other in Europe long before we invaded here. Human brutality did not begin with the European conguest of the Americas - all cultures throughout history appear to have been very good at it. Actually I think from your statements it is you who do not know that much at all. If they had been "doing that" the continent would have already been abandoned. Those who believed in fighting for their territories were killed, they were few. Those who believed in not killing others, were enslaved, and as I said, those who did not believe in clothing were simply killed outright as immoral. I sincerely doubt you know what was done, how long it continued, or how cruel it was. The society of people who developed their own written language the fastest in all the history of this planet was on this continent. We sent them on the trail of tears. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
No actually your guite wrong. In fact, I'm a long time student of the subject and was even temporary head librarian at the Western Histories collections at the University of Oklahoma for a time based on my knowledge of Indian history and culture. I am part Cherokee (very,very little) and my family was involved in the Indian wars from Virginia to Texas. So I am well aware of precisely how cruel it was on both sides. (There is a story in my family about my grandmother's uncle who shot a starving Indian in the stomach with a shot gun when he came begging for food in West Texas (circa 1890) he threw the poor man, still alive, into his hog pen for them to eat - when I was a child that story was still being told as a humorous subject) However, intertribal warfare of the most violent sort greatly predates European colonization and continued long after we arrived. The Cherokees you speak of were themselves in the process of conquering and enslaving other Indians of the South east when whites made contact with them. They had previously been trying to expand northward but were repelled by an alliance of Shawnee, Huron and other large tribes. The Indians who survived the Cherokee conquest, the Dakota, migrated into the northern plains where they proceded to destroy the tribes inhabiting that region - all before they ever saw a white man. The same stories can be told for the Commanches, the Kiowa, the Osage, the Pawnee, the Chickasaw and many many others. One need look no further than the way the Aztecs (related to the Apache) treated their neighbors in order to appreciate the true nature of pre-Columbian native American culture. Their culture was preciesly as violent and inhumane as anything in Europe, Africa or Asia, if not more so. EDIT - It may interest you to note than almost all Indian tribes refer to themselves as "The people" and to their neighbors as "The enemy". "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
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K(arl) wrote: To be alive these elements needs to move, transform, evolve. Such things are possible by integration of new elements. Remember that as you're bowing to Mecca. K(arl) wrote: There is no race except the Human Race. A thoroughly western concept - one that will soon be gone. K(arl) wrote: You aren't a reverend anymore, you're a prophet now? Doesn't take ESP to see a train coming straight at you. "Capitalism is the source of all true freedom."
Stan Shannon wrote: you're bowing to Mecca Paranoia. Funny how rightwingers often rely on fear and hatred. Think positive. Stan Shannon wrote: A thoroughly western concept - one that will soon be gone. Western? You mean european, right?
Fold with us!
All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets - Voltaire, 1694-1778 -
K(arl) wrote: I'm not sure such behaviour is caused by stupidity. I'm fairly sure it isn't. The behavior is stupidity... The cause is something else. And i don't mean lack of funds to buy better drugs... K(arl) wrote: Let's build less jails, put less money in a repressive system, and invest more in education and psychological/behavioral help: IMO, this might be a more efficient solution. I didn't suggest any other solution, so i'm not knocking yours. The prison population here is truely astounding. That said, the education is out there...
You must be careful in the forest Broken glass and rusty nails If you're to bring back something for us I have bullets for sale...
Shog9 wrote: And i don't mean lack of funds to buy better drugs I shouldn't but can't resist.... :laugh::laugh:
Fold with us!
All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets - Voltaire, 1694-1778