There's something SO wrong.......
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4687203.stm[^] We are now wanting to PAY kids for behaving! Am I just getting old or is the world going stark raving mad? And what's more, I just heard on the radio that it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject - but they have "achieved deferred success". Kid sister rules prevent me from expressing my feelings about this hippy nonsense! I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4687203.stm[^] We are now wanting to PAY kids for behaving! Am I just getting old or is the world going stark raving mad? And what's more, I just heard on the radio that it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject - but they have "achieved deferred success". Kid sister rules prevent me from expressing my feelings about this hippy nonsense! I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)
Baconbutty wrote: Kid sister rules prevent me from expressing my feelings about this hippy nonsense! That's why we have this forum[^]. Most people are willing to pay more to be amused than to be educated--Robert C. Savage, Life Lessons Toasty0.com Ladder League (beta) My Grandkids
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4687203.stm[^] We are now wanting to PAY kids for behaving! Am I just getting old or is the world going stark raving mad? And what's more, I just heard on the radio that it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject - but they have "achieved deferred success". Kid sister rules prevent me from expressing my feelings about this hippy nonsense! I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)
What happens to them when they are supposed to enter the "Workforce"? Oh yeah, when time is there, "the workforce" will be in China.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4687203.stm[^] We are now wanting to PAY kids for behaving! Am I just getting old or is the world going stark raving mad? And what's more, I just heard on the radio that it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject - but they have "achieved deferred success". Kid sister rules prevent me from expressing my feelings about this hippy nonsense! I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)
Baconbutty wrote: ...it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject... In America, this has been in practice since at least 1993. Giving a student a failing grade, and doing so with a red pen, is a no-no these days.
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4687203.stm[^] We are now wanting to PAY kids for behaving! Am I just getting old or is the world going stark raving mad? And what's more, I just heard on the radio that it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject - but they have "achieved deferred success". Kid sister rules prevent me from expressing my feelings about this hippy nonsense! I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)
Errr.... that's kinda like kids getting gifts from 'Santa' for behaving well, right? :~ Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." David Wulff to me.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4687203.stm[^] We are now wanting to PAY kids for behaving! Am I just getting old or is the world going stark raving mad? And what's more, I just heard on the radio that it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject - but they have "achieved deferred success". Kid sister rules prevent me from expressing my feelings about this hippy nonsense! I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)
Some things make me sad, some of them even ANGRY! If we fail teaching our children - who else shall do it? The teachers that often lack authority? Social workers? It is a difficult topic and we are aware that sometimes public institutions have to try to correct what some of us did wrong. But this way?
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4687203.stm[^] We are now wanting to PAY kids for behaving! Am I just getting old or is the world going stark raving mad? And what's more, I just heard on the radio that it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject - but they have "achieved deferred success". Kid sister rules prevent me from expressing my feelings about this hippy nonsense! I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)
Yep. That's just wrong. Period. What bugs me about raisin' my kids is there is just so little WORK to give em. I got to chop down trees, split the wood and stack and lug it to our wood burning stove as a kid. Mow the lawn. Dishwashing was my first job. So many of these things are GONE now adayz... Well, there's mowing the lawn still. But as a dad, that's the only exercise I ever get. I LIKE doing it... I dunno. I just wish I had a farm so my kids could grow up right... Kids, especially teenagers, are so bored, they got nothin to do but get in trouble really... ...Sigh...
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4687203.stm[^] We are now wanting to PAY kids for behaving! Am I just getting old or is the world going stark raving mad? And what's more, I just heard on the radio that it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject - but they have "achieved deferred success". Kid sister rules prevent me from expressing my feelings about this hippy nonsense! I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)
I know, it is too sad to contemplate. Just how... and where... did the system get so badly fucked up? You want discipline in school? You want kids to start learning and stop the abuse? It is shockingly easy: - Get rid of this "we can't hurt their feelings" crap. These kids are going to fail at life with such an upbringing. - Bring back corporal punishment. Put the really disruptive little darlings in a cage for up to the remainder of the day. - Teach kids about respect. Especially for themselves. Ban telvision and magazines. - Provide propper leisure activities for kids. Bring back parks that are real parks not merely an unbuilt on plot of land, bring back dangerous playground equipment like climbing frames or swings without seat harnesses, and let the damned kids be kids. Stop treating them like little adults which they have neither the wish nor maturity/responsibility to be.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
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Baconbutty wrote: ...it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject... In America, this has been in practice since at least 1993. Giving a student a failing grade, and doing so with a red pen, is a no-no these days.
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
WTF? :wtf: So what happens when a kid is abysmally bad at school? Is he given a passing grade and promoted nevertheless? :wtf: Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." David Wulff to me.
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I know, it is too sad to contemplate. Just how... and where... did the system get so badly fucked up? You want discipline in school? You want kids to start learning and stop the abuse? It is shockingly easy: - Get rid of this "we can't hurt their feelings" crap. These kids are going to fail at life with such an upbringing. - Bring back corporal punishment. Put the really disruptive little darlings in a cage for up to the remainder of the day. - Teach kids about respect. Especially for themselves. Ban telvision and magazines. - Provide propper leisure activities for kids. Bring back parks that are real parks not merely an unbuilt on plot of land, bring back dangerous playground equipment like climbing frames or swings without seat harnesses, and let the damned kids be kids. Stop treating them like little adults which they have neither the wish nor maturity/responsibility to be.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
David Wulff wrote: Get rid of this "we can't hurt their feelings" crap. These kids are going to fail at life with such an upbringing. Well said. :) David Wulff wrote: Teach kids about respect. Especially for themselves. Well said again. :) David Wulff wrote: Ban telvision and magazines. Well said yet again. :) David Wulff wrote: Bring back corporal punishment. Put the really disruptive little darlings in a cage for up to the remainder of the day. Well said... hey, wait a minute! Corporal punishment? No way! :mad: I've seen it happen at my school and it's terrible! I've seen sadist teachers who slapped 'stupid' kids and beat them up. I've never been thrashed by a teacher, but it's terrible to just see. If teachers start beating up kids, they will be no different from the school bully. And in my not-so-humble opinion, the ends DON'T justify the means. :mad: Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." — David Wulff to me.
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David Wulff wrote: Get rid of this "we can't hurt their feelings" crap. These kids are going to fail at life with such an upbringing. Well said. :) David Wulff wrote: Teach kids about respect. Especially for themselves. Well said again. :) David Wulff wrote: Ban telvision and magazines. Well said yet again. :) David Wulff wrote: Bring back corporal punishment. Put the really disruptive little darlings in a cage for up to the remainder of the day. Well said... hey, wait a minute! Corporal punishment? No way! :mad: I've seen it happen at my school and it's terrible! I've seen sadist teachers who slapped 'stupid' kids and beat them up. I've never been thrashed by a teacher, but it's terrible to just see. If teachers start beating up kids, they will be no different from the school bully. And in my not-so-humble opinion, the ends DON'T justify the means. :mad: Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." — David Wulff to me.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote: Corporal punishment? No way! You know, for all it's failings... it worked. It worked with my fathers generation, and the one before that. Kids don't see it as a violent meaingless act, they see it as a punishment. Just the same as parents who discipline their kids with the occasional visit from the backs of their hands. The trouble is you can't legislate such things because it is a very fine line between punishment and abuse. I know the definition of corporal punishment is physical pain, but it is more the humiliation that punishes than the pain. I had a non-physical form of that when I went to public school* and I turned out ok... :suss: * Public schools in England are privately owned/run schools. I.e. non-state - they don't punish you at all in state schools!
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
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WTF? :wtf: So what happens when a kid is abysmally bad at school? Is he given a passing grade and promoted nevertheless? :wtf: Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." David Wulff to me.
Where do you think all those overhyped selfsucking managers come from?
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4687203.stm[^] We are now wanting to PAY kids for behaving! Am I just getting old or is the world going stark raving mad? And what's more, I just heard on the radio that it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject - but they have "achieved deferred success". Kid sister rules prevent me from expressing my feelings about this hippy nonsense! I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)
My mother taught school her entire career (40+ years); she left about a year ago. She became so fed-up with the public school system and how it was handling kids, she actually retired because of it ... Some things she's told me over the years: 1. No more red pens; because of the terrible impact on a child's psyche ... 2. School's are purely money driven. The get more state funds for special ed. kids than "normal" kids, so they are trying to push all kids to special ed (hence the big ritalin scam in the 80's-90's) 3. She was told at one point that she could fail NO ONE. 4. When teaching summer school, she was told "If they show up, pass them" 5. To deal with a "problem student" they would transfer the kid from one class to another, they were not allowed to expel them. 6. My mother was once written up for putting a student in detention, because he kept interrupting the class, arguing with another boy. My mother was not at fault, mind you, the kid should have been expelled, my Mother was written up because the PARENTS of the boy threatened to file a suit against the school, and said that their child would never do any such thing as they said he did; despite the entire class complaining about him ... -- When I was in school -- 1. Your paper was graded with a red pen. That's the color the teacher used, no one else. Period. Get over it. It's a freak'in color. If you got 100%, it was written in red, if a got a ZERO, it was written in red. Big deal. I'm not mental because of it. 2. The public school system has needed better management of funds and money for decades. The SOB's at the top are pulling in 6 figure salaries, while the teacher's are just making ends meet. The texts used are out dated, and the facilities are either run down, or the new facilities cost millions to build and aren't worth it. Greed runs most everything now. 3. If you didn't pass the tests, you failed. Duh. If you didn't pass the class, you stayed back. Tell a kid they can never fail, I'm guessing they won't be doing the work. Fear of failure is good motivation. 4. Summer school used to be "Do your work, or your staying back"; and it wasn't easy because it was everything you SHOULD have done that year, crammed into like 2 months. 5. To deal with a "problem student", one of my teacher's (wood shop), used to throw a block of wood at the person. From across the room. At their head. No, I'm NOT kidding. No one ever messed around in that class. Everyone passed. Everyone learned. Only two people were injured
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WTF? :wtf: So what happens when a kid is abysmally bad at school? Is he given a passing grade and promoted nevertheless? :wtf: Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." David Wulff to me.
Most teachers give extra chances to bring the grades up to a passing level. If that does not work, a meeting is held between the teacher, student, parent(s), and principal. The teacher goes over what has and has not been turned in by the student so that the parents are full-aware of why their kid is failing. In the few instances that I am personally aware of, the parents demanded that their child be promoted so that s/he would not be embarrassed by his/her peers. In another instance, the student was on the school's ball team but was not being allowed to play in an upcoming game because of bad grades. The athletic coach threatened the teacher. The teacher did not give in, but the principal did and the student was allowed to play in the game. This is but a small example of why schools are producing such sub-par students. It's been shown time and time again that an alarming number of kids that "graduate" high school are reading at a 7-8th grade level. Very little is demanded of them, and heaven forbid you embarrass the little one. He might be scared for life for having to stand in the corder in front of his peers.
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
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Where do you think all those overhyped selfsucking managers come from?
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen:applause: :laugh: /matthias
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote: Corporal punishment? No way! You know, for all it's failings... it worked. It worked with my fathers generation, and the one before that. Kids don't see it as a violent meaingless act, they see it as a punishment. Just the same as parents who discipline their kids with the occasional visit from the backs of their hands. The trouble is you can't legislate such things because it is a very fine line between punishment and abuse. I know the definition of corporal punishment is physical pain, but it is more the humiliation that punishes than the pain. I had a non-physical form of that when I went to public school* and I turned out ok... :suss: * Public schools in England are privately owned/run schools. I.e. non-state - they don't punish you at all in state schools!
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
David Wulff wrote: Kids don't see it as a violent meaingless act, they see it as a punishment. At a young age, no, they don't. But when you're into adolescence, and you're still being hit by teachers, the humiliation can be severe. Thank goodness it's not easy to get guns in India or we'd have school shootings everyday. :shudder: Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." David Wulff to me.
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I know, it is too sad to contemplate. Just how... and where... did the system get so badly fucked up? You want discipline in school? You want kids to start learning and stop the abuse? It is shockingly easy: - Get rid of this "we can't hurt their feelings" crap. These kids are going to fail at life with such an upbringing. - Bring back corporal punishment. Put the really disruptive little darlings in a cage for up to the remainder of the day. - Teach kids about respect. Especially for themselves. Ban telvision and magazines. - Provide propper leisure activities for kids. Bring back parks that are real parks not merely an unbuilt on plot of land, bring back dangerous playground equipment like climbing frames or swings without seat harnesses, and let the damned kids be kids. Stop treating them like little adults which they have neither the wish nor maturity/responsibility to be.
Ðavid Wulff Audioscrobbler :: flickr Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (QT)
David Wulff wrote: - Provide propper leisure activities for kids. Speaking of such, some school systems are doing away with their Physical Education (P.E.) programs because some kids were getting embarrassed that they couldn't do well (e.g., run, climb rope, throw a ball, push-ups).
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4687203.stm[^] We are now wanting to PAY kids for behaving! Am I just getting old or is the world going stark raving mad? And what's more, I just heard on the radio that it's been suggested that children are no longer told that they have failed at a subject - but they have "achieved deferred success". Kid sister rules prevent me from expressing my feelings about this hippy nonsense! I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)
I don't know what anyone on this thread is complaining about - when government officals receive medals for massive screwups and refuse to accept responsibility for the mistakes they make, why should we hold children accountable for their actions? If you were all so zealous about correcting the activities of adults the children would have examples to follow and wouldn't require beatings.
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Most teachers give extra chances to bring the grades up to a passing level. If that does not work, a meeting is held between the teacher, student, parent(s), and principal. The teacher goes over what has and has not been turned in by the student so that the parents are full-aware of why their kid is failing. In the few instances that I am personally aware of, the parents demanded that their child be promoted so that s/he would not be embarrassed by his/her peers. In another instance, the student was on the school's ball team but was not being allowed to play in an upcoming game because of bad grades. The athletic coach threatened the teacher. The teacher did not give in, but the principal did and the student was allowed to play in the game. This is but a small example of why schools are producing such sub-par students. It's been shown time and time again that an alarming number of kids that "graduate" high school are reading at a 7-8th grade level. Very little is demanded of them, and heaven forbid you embarrass the little one. He might be scared for life for having to stand in the corder in front of his peers.
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
I'm still in shock after reading your post. Something like that can (or perpaps, should) never happen in my country. No offense intended, but where* do you see your country 40 years from now? * Apart from continental drift, that is. :-D Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." David Wulff to me.
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Where do you think all those overhyped selfsucking managers come from?
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenWhile I can appreciate your disdain for said managers, the result of what Vikram was referring to are those types you see flipping burgers as an adult, sweeping streets, mowing easements for the city's public works department, emptying trash, athletes that can run the 40-yard dash in four seconds but can't multiply two numbers in their head (and sometimes on paper), etc. While they may make decisions that do not please everyone, managers are an educated bunch. Yes, there are sometimes smarter people that work for these managers, but that is beside the point.
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
