Experience with a Muslim
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote: [surprised]It is?[/surprised] It sure is hun. :) Vikram A Punathambekar wrote: [recovers quickly and takes a theatrical bow] Thank you, thank you, thank you! Anytime. :rose: Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Get a room ! ;)
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[Not a programming question, not an ad, nothing that your kid sister shouldn't read, and certainly nothing that incites hatred, so I thought I'd post it in the Lounge :) ] [Also, I've known plenty of Muslims and have had Muslim friends (at school, college and in the neighborhood), it's just that this experience was something out of the ordinary and I thought I'd share it with you guys] So I was driving through a new part of town and found myself lost. I stopped an old Muslim on the street and asked him how to get to Kodambakkam railway station. He gave me complicated directions, and I didn't understand. Then he said, "I'm going part of the way myself. You drop me off there and I'll tell you the way from there" and I agreed. I noticed that he spoke Tamil (the local language here) with a faint accent, and I guessed he spoke Urdu like a lot of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent. I dropped him off where he wanted to go and he told me the directions from there, and they were pretty simple. I thanked him, and said "Shukriya"* and "Khuda hafiz"**. He became profusely happy and repeated the directions and asked me, this time in Urdu if I got the directions right. I smiled back and said I did, and we went our ways. It's hard to believe some people are out to demonize men like the one I met. :( * "Thank You" in Urdu ** "May God protect you" in Urdu Cheers, Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." — David Wulff to me.
Life should be about people not labels :love: The tigress is here :-D
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[Not a programming question, not an ad, nothing that your kid sister shouldn't read, and certainly nothing that incites hatred, so I thought I'd post it in the Lounge :) ] [Also, I've known plenty of Muslims and have had Muslim friends (at school, college and in the neighborhood), it's just that this experience was something out of the ordinary and I thought I'd share it with you guys] So I was driving through a new part of town and found myself lost. I stopped an old Muslim on the street and asked him how to get to Kodambakkam railway station. He gave me complicated directions, and I didn't understand. Then he said, "I'm going part of the way myself. You drop me off there and I'll tell you the way from there" and I agreed. I noticed that he spoke Tamil (the local language here) with a faint accent, and I guessed he spoke Urdu like a lot of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent. I dropped him off where he wanted to go and he told me the directions from there, and they were pretty simple. I thanked him, and said "Shukriya"* and "Khuda hafiz"**. He became profusely happy and repeated the directions and asked me, this time in Urdu if I got the directions right. I smiled back and said I did, and we went our ways. It's hard to believe some people are out to demonize men like the one I met. :( * "Thank You" in Urdu ** "May God protect you" in Urdu Cheers, Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." — David Wulff to me.
Anyone remember the TV show Dinosaurs, with the Jim Henson muppet-like dinosaurs? (They probably were) One episode covered a war with other dinosaurs. They used CNN-like tv coverage, showing WAR (We Are Right), and how 4-leggers couldn't trust 2-leggers, etc., even though they were neighbors and friends. With the absence of all the facts, people will be trained to think 1 way. Top 10 Geek Resulutions: 5. To decipher what that big room is, which has the blue ceiling and poor climate control.
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Life should be about people not labels :love: The tigress is here :-D
Succinctly put. :) Cheers, Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." — David Wulff to me.
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Get a room ! ;)
Are you from Peckham? :laugh: Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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Demonization, I understand now is a tool, since reading 1984 I have a very different view of it. Our civilisation has been doing it for EON's. People love to see the world in black and white, "they are not like us", "their culture is so different" etc, these things are never that simple, thoughts like theses are driven by ignorance or laziness, seeing the world through shade of gray just doesn't appeal. This is not to say however, that don't demonize us, 'cos they seem to be masters of it ... the blame lies on both sides ... Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
Ray Kinsella wrote: seeing the world through shade of gray just doesn't appeal You are right people find it easier to make black and white decisions. Yet when we do so, we lose all the other colored crayons in the box. Differences in religion is such a difficult thing for people to tolerate. Our belief in God is core to so many of us. When our core doesn't appear to match up with other peoples core, then we become afraid or confused. These are hard issues to work through. I finally came to the place where I know what I believe, I don't have to figure it all out, and I don't have to convince you to believe what I do. However, don't force me to believe what you believe. The truth will stand on it's own.
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Life should be about people not labels :love: The tigress is here :-D
Definitely. I've been "labelled" a fair few times in the last few years, and in many cases people used the labels with the intention of causing pain. People are people. :rose: Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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Ray Kinsella wrote: seeing the world through shade of gray just doesn't appeal You are right people find it easier to make black and white decisions. Yet when we do so, we lose all the other colored crayons in the box. Differences in religion is such a difficult thing for people to tolerate. Our belief in God is core to so many of us. When our core doesn't appear to match up with other peoples core, then we become afraid or confused. These are hard issues to work through. I finally came to the place where I know what I believe, I don't have to figure it all out, and I don't have to convince you to believe what I do. However, don't force me to believe what you believe. The truth will stand on it's own.
Yeah I see what you mean, I can't but feel though that the thought process that goes on isn't as sophisticated as a comparing and contrasting of religous beliefs. Its probabily just good ole Xenophobia, its easier to dislike and disengage after all. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
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Anyone remember the TV show Dinosaurs, with the Jim Henson muppet-like dinosaurs? (They probably were) One episode covered a war with other dinosaurs. They used CNN-like tv coverage, showing WAR (We Are Right), and how 4-leggers couldn't trust 2-leggers, etc., even though they were neighbors and friends. With the absence of all the facts, people will be trained to think 1 way. Top 10 Geek Resulutions: 5. To decipher what that big room is, which has the blue ceiling and poor climate control.
I vaguely remember that one, although I have to say I never got on with the programme. Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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[Not a programming question, not an ad, nothing that your kid sister shouldn't read, and certainly nothing that incites hatred, so I thought I'd post it in the Lounge :) ] [Also, I've known plenty of Muslims and have had Muslim friends (at school, college and in the neighborhood), it's just that this experience was something out of the ordinary and I thought I'd share it with you guys] So I was driving through a new part of town and found myself lost. I stopped an old Muslim on the street and asked him how to get to Kodambakkam railway station. He gave me complicated directions, and I didn't understand. Then he said, "I'm going part of the way myself. You drop me off there and I'll tell you the way from there" and I agreed. I noticed that he spoke Tamil (the local language here) with a faint accent, and I guessed he spoke Urdu like a lot of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent. I dropped him off where he wanted to go and he told me the directions from there, and they were pretty simple. I thanked him, and said "Shukriya"* and "Khuda hafiz"**. He became profusely happy and repeated the directions and asked me, this time in Urdu if I got the directions right. I smiled back and said I did, and we went our ways. It's hard to believe some people are out to demonize men like the one I met. :( * "Thank You" in Urdu ** "May God protect you" in Urdu Cheers, Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." — David Wulff to me.
Why does it surprise you that he is Muslim? Why can't you just say experience with a human being? Don't believe what you hear about people unless you have first hand experience with them. As you have found out reality doesn't resemble what other people with an agenda of their own will lead you to believe. Life's a bitch ... then you marry one!!!!!!!
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Anyone remember the TV show Dinosaurs, with the Jim Henson muppet-like dinosaurs? (They probably were) One episode covered a war with other dinosaurs. They used CNN-like tv coverage, showing WAR (We Are Right), and how 4-leggers couldn't trust 2-leggers, etc., even though they were neighbors and friends. With the absence of all the facts, people will be trained to think 1 way. Top 10 Geek Resulutions: 5. To decipher what that big room is, which has the blue ceiling and poor climate control.
Well guys, Since I am a modern Catholic, Allow me please to share my own experience. Since I come from Lebanon where all cities are merged of Christians and muslims. We had our own bad civil war between the 2 religions, and finally after 25 years the young and educated people came up with a concept that each party can live with the other one but cannot live without. The country is for All , Religion is to God. All those people spreading bad facts and words about muslims are evils simply looking for war and destroying humanity. Finally we both believe in the same God for Certain limits. And their holy book spoke about the Lord Jesus 25 times. Well does that make a sense? I've been programming since year 1999, graduated from Univeristy Paris 2 France, fluent in C,C++,VC++,Web programming (XML,HTML,php etc..),.NET frameworks,C# and ASP.NET,SQL server, Mastering VC++ .NET and SQL server,data structure and database design
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Michael A. Barnhart wrote: Unfortunatly no it is not hard to believe that. Mankind has often thought you are evil and ignorant if you are not just like me. I see it even here at CP. I've seen it too, but I still get surprised when it happens. Oh, well, I'm a hopeless idealist. :) Michael A. Barnhart wrote: We all must constantly remind ourselves this person is most likely very similar to me, with the same goals for themselves, family and friends as I do. SO rather than flaming back, say "hey Friend, I must have missunderstood you. It sounded like @@@@@@@@@@@@@@". 5. Cheers, Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." — David Wulff to me.
Well guys, Since I am a modern Catholic, Allow me please to share my own experience. Since I come from Lebanon where all cities are merged of Christians and muslims. We had our own bad civil war between the 2 religions, and finally after 25 years the young and educated people came up with a concept that each party can live with the other one but cannot live without. The country is for All , Religion is to God. All those people spreading bad facts and words about muslims are evils simply looking for war and destroying humanity. Finally we both believe in the same God for Certain limits. And their holy book spoke about the Lord Jesus 25 times. Well does that make a sense? I've been programming since year 1999, graduated from Univeristy Paris 2 France, fluent in C,C++,VC++,Web programming (XML,HTML,php etc..),.NET frameworks,C# and ASP.NET,SQL server, Mastering VC++ .NET and SQL server,data structure and database design
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Yeah I see what you mean, I can't but feel though that the thought process that goes on isn't as sophisticated as a comparing and contrasting of religous beliefs. Its probabily just good ole Xenophobia, its easier to dislike and disengage after all. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
What a bunch of crap. Yeah, I am confident in my beliefs too. Nobody of any consequence or credibility is out to demonize all muslims. Just the ones that want to kill the rest of us or to forcibly "convert" us by violence to their "religion." This has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with HATE FROM *some* MUSLIMS for the rest of the world. And it in large part stems from the spread of virulent, violent and militant form of Islam -- a twisting of the teachings of their Prophet.
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Definitely. I've been "labelled" a fair few times in the last few years, and in many cases people used the labels with the intention of causing pain. People are people. :rose: Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: with the intention of causing pain. You mean like the muslim terrorist bombers in London in the last few weeks, and in Egypt a few days ago, and in Bali, Indonesia? And in dozens and dozens of other places the world over? The people doing the labeling and the demonizing are the few hateful muslims who think the *we* have to be like *them* or they will exterminate us like so much vermin. When your very life is at stake cany you blame people for labeling? Man! Talk about blaming the victim!!! It's a matter of survival. That's the truth of it.
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[Not a programming question, not an ad, nothing that your kid sister shouldn't read, and certainly nothing that incites hatred, so I thought I'd post it in the Lounge :) ] [Also, I've known plenty of Muslims and have had Muslim friends (at school, college and in the neighborhood), it's just that this experience was something out of the ordinary and I thought I'd share it with you guys] So I was driving through a new part of town and found myself lost. I stopped an old Muslim on the street and asked him how to get to Kodambakkam railway station. He gave me complicated directions, and I didn't understand. Then he said, "I'm going part of the way myself. You drop me off there and I'll tell you the way from there" and I agreed. I noticed that he spoke Tamil (the local language here) with a faint accent, and I guessed he spoke Urdu like a lot of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent. I dropped him off where he wanted to go and he told me the directions from there, and they were pretty simple. I thanked him, and said "Shukriya"* and "Khuda hafiz"**. He became profusely happy and repeated the directions and asked me, this time in Urdu if I got the directions right. I smiled back and said I did, and we went our ways. It's hard to believe some people are out to demonize men like the one I met. :( * "Thank You" in Urdu ** "May God protect you" in Urdu Cheers, Vikram.
http://www.geocities.com/vpunathambekar "You still have the coolest name on CodeProject." — David Wulff to me.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote: It's hard to believe some people are out to demonize men like the one I met. I'm not big in to sociology and the behaviors and habits of people. I could google for demonization but I'd be curious to here some replies for what people think it is. In a country where being of the wrong religion could get you killed or severely beaten the experience isn't a total surprise but I may not understand demonize correctly either. I could see him hiding his cards until you showed yours. He was older, you were younger, fear of you might have kept him quiet but the experience of the short drive with you garnered small amounts of his trust and then your closing remarks sealed the deal for him. Again if I understand "demonize" correctly his behavior isn't unusual I would chalk it up to basic survival instincts and call it a good thing. This symbol ><> has a story that goes with it. It goes that during the great Roman persecution of Christians you would meet a person (typically on the Damascus Road) and in speaking with them you would use your walking stick or foot to draw the bottom half. If they noticed and were of the same persuasion they would draw in the top then erase it with their foot. You would then know it was another Christian and you were safe to discuss things. Anyway, elaborate a bit more on demonizing... Or at least tell me if I'm getting the gyst of it. - Rex
I know you can't become if you only say what you would have done and you'll miss a million miles of fun." - Len Work hard, play hard. Don't forget who you are and don't forget where you're from. Do all these things well and you won't have to wonder where you are going.
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What a bunch of crap. Yeah, I am confident in my beliefs too. Nobody of any consequence or credibility is out to demonize all muslims. Just the ones that want to kill the rest of us or to forcibly "convert" us by violence to their "religion." This has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with HATE FROM *some* MUSLIMS for the rest of the world. And it in large part stems from the spread of virulent, violent and militant form of Islam -- a twisting of the teachings of their Prophet.
Sure its the Islamic extremists ... And its just them we dislike ... Every discussion on any ethnic minorities always starts with disclaimer that whatever the grievence it is only with a certain section of their community. The only problem is that it is presumed that their community condones this behavour so we hate them too, more sophisticated questions like "what is driving this behaviour etc" are rarely asked. After witnessing 30 years of conflict and the demonization on my own Island, I know the signs, its not the Catholics, its the IRA we hate ... well its not that simple really, the sins of the minority are visited on the majority. Off for my tea ... Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
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James R. Twine wrote: However, it is important to remember that doing things like 'pointing out the observation that a high percentage of the terrorist attacks on the US and its allies are coming from people/groups that identify themselves as "Muslims"' is not demonizing them - it is calling it like it is. That reminds me of a mythical Andy Rooney quote: "When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70% of the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the law of statistics. "
"Ideas are a dime a dozen. People who put them into action are priceless." - Unknown
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And when 70% of people arrested or harassed by the police are black in a city where 30% of the population is black you have racism. What's your point?
fakefur wrote: And when 70% of people arrested or harassed by the police are black in a city where 30% of the population is black you have racism. What's your point? I don't know, what is your point since the above is your quote not mine? You must've jumped right into the middle of this thread rather than reading it in the right order. My comment was in support of the one made by Tom Archer. People seem to have a convenient knack for confusing racism with statistics.
"One must learn from the bite of the fire to leave it alone." - Native American Proverb
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: with the intention of causing pain. You mean like the muslim terrorist bombers in London in the last few weeks, and in Egypt a few days ago, and in Bali, Indonesia? And in dozens and dozens of other places the world over? The people doing the labeling and the demonizing are the few hateful muslims who think the *we* have to be like *them* or they will exterminate us like so much vermin. When your very life is at stake cany you blame people for labeling? Man! Talk about blaming the victim!!! It's a matter of survival. That's the truth of it.
You are missing the point. Some people use labels to cause pain to others directly, or to justify actions which do (witness, the bombers, and the backlash against those not involved but labelled as the same by the ignorant). That in itself attempts to trivialise the fact that people are pretty much the same regardless of belief or culture, and therefore is a force for evil - no matter who uses it. I'll quote you a few from my recent experience shall I? Freak. Pervert. Shemale. Abomination. All of the above were used by a so-called Christian support group I was a member of in 2000-2001 (I left under protest at their bigotry). :mad: Now do you see why I say what I do? Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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You are missing the point. Some people use labels to cause pain to others directly, or to justify actions which do (witness, the bombers, and the backlash against those not involved but labelled as the same by the ignorant). That in itself attempts to trivialise the fact that people are pretty much the same regardless of belief or culture, and therefore is a force for evil - no matter who uses it. I'll quote you a few from my recent experience shall I? Freak. Pervert. Shemale. Abomination. All of the above were used by a so-called Christian support group I was a member of in 2000-2001 (I left under protest at their bigotry). :mad: Now do you see why I say what I do? Anna :rose: Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: You are missing the point. No, I am not. This isn't a discussion about your personal world. It's a discussion about muslim extremism and the fact that they're KILLING people -- not "merely" insulting them. And, it seems, that the victims are being blamed rather than the blame resting on those doing the killing. Whatever your personal situation is, I'm truly sorry you've experienced pain from other people who called you (or others like you) names. But again, this isn't about you.