Copyright or intellectual property

Marc 0

Well i someone works for (example) Philips, and thinks of something very cool, the copyright goes to Philips. I don't know if that's the case with your company though, i think that your contract should say something about it... Good luck (i think you need it)!

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Stefan Belopotocan

Thanks Marc, No, it was not part of the contract, actually after he ended collaboration with me he realized that my code is copyrighted by me and he has no agreement with me solving the intellectual property, copyright. Therefore he asked me to make that letter. Stefan

Stefan Belopotocan

As I have information I am the third person from Slovakia who worked for him, and one of them was not paid as I know. So that copyright issue seems to me as some kind of security my invoices to be paid, in the case I will have to go to court here in Slovakia. I do not believe him. But he wants for me first that letter and I want first my invoices to be paid. Has he got rights to ask me to give him such letter as this issue was never a question of our agreement? Actually I never sign with him any agreement of collaboration or contract for any project I did for him. Stefan

generic_user_id

If you are an employee copyright (even though it doesn't exist as such in the Netherlands) is automatically transfered to the company you work for. If you work as a contractor/consultant you keep the copyright on the software you write. This only applies, of course, if nothing is mentioned regarding copyright in the contract. Regards, Diederik

Stefan Belopotocan

Thanks Diederik, I worked as contractor and I did not sign any contract with him including the approval of using my intellectual property. Does it mean he has no right to ask for much such agreement afterwards? Regards, Stefan

Juan Carlos Cobas

I think it depends on the contract you signed with the company. If there wasn't any clause that states that any development carried out during the time the contract was valid belongs to the company, then the project belongs to you, both from the commercial and IP sides. Remember that the IP will always be yours, yet the commercial rights might belong to the company (if such clause existed in the contract).

Stefan Belopotocan

Well, that is the strange thing then because there was no contract signed. From your words it means that both IP and commercial rights belong to me only.

Dan Neely

Messes like this are why you should always have a contract. At this point all you can do is consult a lawyer for advise.

generic_user_id

As far as I can tell, no, he does not have the right. Saying "Do this or I won't pay you" sounds an awful lot like extortion to me. However, in a situation like this there is very little you can do about it. If you don't have the means to get real legal advice then you should aim for a compromise. Ask him -why- he wants ownership of the software you wrote. If he's willing to settle for shared ownership (i.e. both parties are allowed to do with the software whatever they like, so he can't get in trouble for doing something with software which partially belongs to you) you haven't really lost anything. Reference: [ Dutch page, official source on copyright matters - www.auteursrecht.nl[^] ] You can contact this institution of authorship and they will answer any legal questions you have for free. (They may need up to 3 weeks for an answer, according to the website) I'm not a lawyer and I don't know the details of the situation you're in, so take my advice with a grain of salt. Good luck! Diederik

code frog 0

They are actually beyond a point where they can request this legally I'm pretty sure. I think what you can do is sell them a license to it. It's a reasonable response to the letter. You can have an attorney draft up the license but as your code is copyrighted that would be my approach. I don't think they can do anything about that. If they don't give you your money it's a simple thing. Tell them you are a member of a site with 3,000,000 viewers. You'll post full source code and documentation as an article and the entire world will have their code. Since it is your copyright you can do this. You can also do this as no written arrangements bar you from doing it. You have *something* they want. Don't forget that. The threat of posting the code hear should return reason to their minds.

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Joan M

Everything that a worker signs downn after the signature of the contract has no value.

Always and in front of a juror, the worker can say that he/she signed it under pressure and that's all.
(imagine that some boss somewhere tells you to accept something that you don't want and that if you don't accept that he will fire you...).

In your case and if that wasn't spokenwritten down before you must earn all the money and after that you'll be able to decide what to do with your code. NOTE: 1. All that other people here in CP told you about getting legal advice is the most right step to do. 2. All what I've said to you is true in Spain, I don't know waht happens in your place. 3. I suppose that your reaction will depend on the cost that will represent moving all the legal machinery versus the money that you should earn at the end if you win the lawsuit. Hope this helps.

Joe Woodbury

I do not know the law in your country, but in most countries you not only have the right to sue him for those invoices, but until he pays those, court costs and damages, you could easily get an injuction preventing him or anyone else from using your software in any way. Actually, since you own the copyright, you could do that anyway, even if the invoices are paid. This probably isn't a good idea since it could destroy your own reputation with other potential clients. Still, you are legally in control, not this guy. In the future, sign contracts that are very specific. Also, don't ever deliver the entire project until they have paid in full. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke

David Crow

Stefan Belopotocan wrote: For me it is a good amount of money, well from your point of view you would smile maybe I work for such little, but that is the life, here in East Europe. Tim's point was not that you were cheap, but simply that if the amount he owes you is less than legal counsel, it would be better to just write it off. Lawyer's in the U.S. are way pricey so if the amount sought is less than a few thousand (it all depends on the circumstances), it's usually best to just put another notch in the "belt of experience." I once had a similar experience many years ago with some code I was writing for a small company. It was a DOS application but had block-based graphics (e.g., menus, shadows, windows, text boxes). Much of the screen and keyboard I/O was in a library that I been compiling over the years. It made no sense to reinvent this stuff each time it was needed. Near the end of the project, I was asked for the source code for this library. The developer that came in after me to finish it all up said the project could not be built with just a library, he had to have the source code. I politely refused, but had already been paid so I do not have any helpful advice for you. You might indicate to this person that the invoices are for services already rendered. You could further that by agreeing to sell him the copyright for an additional fee.

"One must learn from the bite of the fire to leave it alone." - Native American Proverb

JimmyRopes

When you say you have copyrights do you have the code with the copyright notice posted on a public site? If not what is stopping him from editing the copyright notice to have his name in it? He is not acting in good faith so do not underestimate the depths he will sink to. Since it is source code you probably don't want to post the code in plain text, but if you have the code, and you should always keep a copy of the code, you can post the copyright notice in plain text and a hash value, or values, of the code here, a public forum, along with a statement saying what that hash value is representing, what algorithm was used to calculate them and that you are posting it to verify your copyrights. Use someone else’s code so there are no question about the results and use strong algorithms, I would recommend MD5 and SHA256. Search for articles here about hash values, there are a few, and download the code. State the source of the code so if the court wants to verify it independently they can. If it comes down to legal action post the same in a local newspaper. Personal ads are an inexpensive way to verify ownership. Start the ad and the web posting with ***Public Notice***. Keep copies for your files. Additionally, make a printout of the source code and mail it, by registered mail, to yourself. Actually, mail a few copies, in separate envelopes, to yourself so that you have backup. Registered mail is inexpensive so it is reasonable to have a few copies, three should be enough. If the matter ever goes to court and he claims that he owns the copyright you can have the registered letter entered as evidence and then opened in front of the judge and jury. This is your hold card so don't tip your hand outside of court. Try to negotiate with him for an out of court settlement before going to court, but if you must go to court let him make false statements and then produce this documentation in rebuttal. Also send all correspondence to him by registered mail. He will start to look at you a little differently when he knows that you are developing a case against him. Start now to send him a notice every week asking demanding payment in full along with accounting fees for having to process his overdue account. Remember to send these notices by registered mail so you don't give him any wiggle room to say he did not receive them. If the account goes unpaid for a reasonable time (a month or two) start to threaten legal action. If he does not reply to you, inform him (by regist

Jorgen Sigvardsson

Stefan Belopotocan wrote: He blocks to pay my last two invoices if I will not do that. That's extortion as you haven't agreed upon it in beforehand. Unless he can show a contract with your name on it, giving him the IP, then he's screwed. Take him to court if need be, because you will win. Good music: In my rosary[^]

Roger Wright

Stefan Belopotocan wrote: I never sign with him any agreement of collaboration or contract for any project I did for him. Then he has no right of any kind to claim ownership - only a right of use. Offer him a license for unlimited use of your product, and consult a lawyer if he doesn't pay up. "...putting all your eggs in one basket along with your bowling ball and gym clothes only gets you scrambled eggs and an extra laundry day... " - Jeffry J. Brickley

Ted Ferenc

I worked for a company that pulled stunts like this. They always has 'cash flow' problems, so would do anything to prevent paying an invoice, and would only pay when a bailif turned up. They were UK based and some customers abroad, e.g. one I know of in Germany, were owed several thousand pounds. But the cost of suing in the UK for them was prohibitive, so they never did. BTW they are now bankrupt, don't forget if you sue all that person has to do, in the UK at least if he is a LTD. company, is to close the company down, and you get nothing and you will have pay your own solicitors costs as well.

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Stefan Belopotocan

Thanks Jimmy, That is every comprehensive advice which will certainly help. I hope that nobody else will ever have to stay in similar position as me now, but maybe your advices will help the others as well, now or in future. Stefan

JimmyRopes

Unfortunately, if you work as an independent contractor, in this, or any other business, sometimes having to write off bad invoices is just another part of doing business. You adjust your rates accordingly. Fortunately, if you have a contract the occurrence is very low compared to the number of contracts that pay all that is due. You will have to make a decision based on a cost/benefit analysis. Do not make a decision on personal feelings. I know you feel your trust has been violated, but you may have to consider it the cost of gaining experience. Hopefully, in the future you will learn a bit of contract law, essential if you are going to sign contracts, and not work without a contract in hand. That is another topic that deserves comprehensive coverage but not essential to your current circumstances. The cost of going to court is pretty high and the potential rewards may not be worth the cost of pursuing it further. That is why I limited my suggestions to things that do not cost very much and if they get him to pay up they will be worth it. Going further may not, but do not show that you may not follow through. You have to put on your best poker face and give it a shot. You have very little to loose provided you do not contract professional legal services. I don't know how it is in Europe, but in the US if you are out of work and you do not show very much personal worth you qualify for legal assistance, free of charge. If that is available to you it would be good to avail yourself of the services. Consider it your taxes at work, which you will undoubtedly have paid and/or will pay in the future. Your case may be complicated because he is in an EU country and you are not (different judicial systems). Regardless, sending a few registered letters does not cost very much and if it gets what is due to you then it will be worth it. Good luck. I would rather have my teeth drilled than do system testing! JimmyRopes