Microsoft and Hollywood?
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Interesting view. I'm of the persuasion that there are some good people in the world, and neither are all corporations evil. Wanting to make money is not evil by itself, or we'd all be guilty. Doing immoral things in order to make money, OTOH, that would be evil.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
-- modified at 13:45 Tuesday 30th August, 2005
Judah Himango wrote: Doing immoral things in order to make money, OTOH, that would be evil. The thing is... how far removed from the immoral things do you have to be before you can stop considering yourself tainted by them? Sure, it's easy to cry "Evil!" at the guy making the decision to (say) replace a healthy ingredient with a cheaper (but less-than-healthy) one, or use cheap paint on a contract that won't be renewed, or cut quality control... but what about the shareholders pressuring that guy to increase profits, with no thought to the consequences? What about the laborers actually producing shoddy work, simply because it's easier and no-one seems to care? What about the people buying the products, or the politicians picking the lowest bidder in spite of a sketchy track record? What about the voters, who voted in the guy who said he would cut taxes instead of the guy who said he would build better schools? Corporations are all too often just a mental game. A way of blaming someone else for your own weakness, your own greed. They are the manifestation of a culture of lust and cowardice. Also, some manufacture damn good airconditioners. Guess which one of those paragraphs i'll put on my resume... :rolleyes:
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i didnt say anything was evil... please dont put words in my mouth ... i think most corporations put profit above all other considerations and measure any venture by its profit potential ... that is where i 100% disagree with them ... i happen to think that the environment and education and healthcare should not be profit centers... a civilised society should take care of the old and the sick and the children and it should cherish the environment and to answer dnh ... there is no such thing as a non-profit corporation ... there are non-profit organizations and they are generally a good thing
lauren, your "biz stuff" link needs a .COM in it, I think. As it is, the link doesn't work. I have to agree with your basic sentiments, but I do think there are some companies (corporations) which do put a priority on the things you mention. Good luck to you.
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lauren, your "biz stuff" link needs a .COM in it, I think. As it is, the link doesn't work. I have to agree with your basic sentiments, but I do think there are some companies (corporations) which do put a priority on the things you mention. Good luck to you.
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I dunno... but of course I googled before I came up with non profit corporations... click me :P[^] Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
I dunno... but of course I googled before I came up with non profit corporations... click me :P[^] Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
And the link for Paul's photo site on the "About" page should be www.paulmwatson.com, not www.pmwphoto.com. :)
[Cheshire] I can't afford those plastic things to cover the electric sockets so I just draw bunny faces on the electric outlets to scare the kids away from them... [RLtim] Newsflash! Kids aren't afraid of bunnies. [Cheshire] Oh they will be... -Bash.org
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And the link for Paul's photo site on the "About" page should be www.paulmwatson.com, not www.pmwphoto.com. :)
[Cheshire] I can't afford those plastic things to cover the electric sockets so I just draw bunny faces on the electric outlets to scare the kids away from them... [RLtim] Newsflash! Kids aren't afraid of bunnies. [Cheshire] Oh they will be... -Bash.org
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l a u r e n wrote: commercial corporations Then sorry, I must be blind. Now show me where you mentioned that word "commercial"? You were talking about corporations, could be profit/commercial or non-profit, I asked specificaly about non-profit corporations, you answered that such thing doesn't exist. I proved you it does exist. Now I am kinda lost. :confused: But hey, I had like 4 hours of sleep so who knows :~ Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
l a u r e n wrote: commercial corporations Then sorry, I must be blind. Now show me where you mentioned that word "commercial"? You were talking about corporations, could be profit/commercial or non-profit, I asked specificaly about non-profit corporations, you answered that such thing doesn't exist. I proved you it does exist. Now I am kinda lost. :confused: But hey, I had like 4 hours of sleep so who knows :~ Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
i didnt say anything was evil... please dont put words in my mouth ... i think most corporations put profit above all other considerations and measure any venture by its profit potential ... that is where i 100% disagree with them ... i happen to think that the environment and education and healthcare should not be profit centers... a civilised society should take care of the old and the sick and the children and it should cherish the environment and to answer dnh ... there is no such thing as a non-profit corporation ... there are non-profit organizations and they are generally a good thing
I think that's were this line of thinking fails. Corporations are set up to make money. If a corporation does not make money, the corporation is no more, and the people working for it will be out of jobs, unable to provide for themselves and their families. Some people seem to think that a corporation's priorities ought to be embetterment of mankind, the world, the environment, and so on. The open source movement typifies this. While those are nice utopian thoughts, it doesn't make sense for a corporation to do so, especially when failing to bring a profit results in the corporation's eventual demise, thus making any benefits to mankind non-existant. Now, environment, education, and healthcare, I would agree, shouldn't be profit centers. But, you'll probably agree, these examples aren't typical corporations.
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l a u r e n wrote: i _really_ dont want to have a semantic debate here... im talking about commercial corporations who screw people for profits not non-profit organizations who by default dont make profits ... k? Simple "no" as answer to my original question would be enough. But this works to... Lesson learnt: never, ever try to prove woman that she is wrong, especially when she is wrong. :sigh: Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
I think that's were this line of thinking fails. Corporations are set up to make money. If a corporation does not make money, the corporation is no more, and the people working for it will be out of jobs, unable to provide for themselves and their families. Some people seem to think that a corporation's priorities ought to be embetterment of mankind, the world, the environment, and so on. The open source movement typifies this. While those are nice utopian thoughts, it doesn't make sense for a corporation to do so, especially when failing to bring a profit results in the corporation's eventual demise, thus making any benefits to mankind non-existant. Now, environment, education, and healthcare, I would agree, shouldn't be profit centers. But, you'll probably agree, these examples aren't typical corporations.
look i know u probably mean well and all but i really dont have time to explain why i think corporations that care for nothing other than their bottom lines are not a good thing... if u dont get it already then my explanations wont make anything any clearer and btw stop trying to make me a spokes person for anything anti-corporate ... all i did was make a comment actually supporting MS for once!!
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l a u r e n wrote: i _really_ dont want to have a semantic debate here... im talking about commercial corporations who screw people for profits not non-profit organizations who by default dont make profits ... k? Simple "no" as answer to my original question would be enough. But this works to... Lesson learnt: never, ever try to prove woman that she is wrong, especially when she is wrong. :sigh: Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
eh, forget it. Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
eh, forget it. Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
... Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
I think that's were this line of thinking fails. Corporations are set up to make money. If a corporation does not make money, the corporation is no more, and the people working for it will be out of jobs, unable to provide for themselves and their families. Some people seem to think that a corporation's priorities ought to be embetterment of mankind, the world, the environment, and so on. The open source movement typifies this. While those are nice utopian thoughts, it doesn't make sense for a corporation to do so, especially when failing to bring a profit results in the corporation's eventual demise, thus making any benefits to mankind non-existant. Now, environment, education, and healthcare, I would agree, shouldn't be profit centers. But, you'll probably agree, these examples aren't typical corporations.
Judah, I think Lauren is talking about the PsychoPathic Corporation, as described in this link: Is your boss (or corporation) a Psychopath?[^]
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Judah Himango wrote: Doing immoral things in order to make money, OTOH, that would be evil. The thing is... how far removed from the immoral things do you have to be before you can stop considering yourself tainted by them? Sure, it's easy to cry "Evil!" at the guy making the decision to (say) replace a healthy ingredient with a cheaper (but less-than-healthy) one, or use cheap paint on a contract that won't be renewed, or cut quality control... but what about the shareholders pressuring that guy to increase profits, with no thought to the consequences? What about the laborers actually producing shoddy work, simply because it's easier and no-one seems to care? What about the people buying the products, or the politicians picking the lowest bidder in spite of a sketchy track record? What about the voters, who voted in the guy who said he would cut taxes instead of the guy who said he would build better schools? Corporations are all too often just a mental game. A way of blaming someone else for your own weakness, your own greed. They are the manifestation of a culture of lust and cowardice. Also, some manufacture damn good airconditioners. Guess which one of those paragraphs i'll put on my resume... :rolleyes:
The thing is... how far removed from the immoral things do you have to be before you can stop considering yourself tainted by them?
If you are not doing or causing some immoral action, then you cannot be held responsible for the actions of others. Though, I'd say a wise person would not work with people who are doing immoral activity.
What about the laborers actually producing shoddy work, simply because it's easier and no-one seems to care?
It's on his own head, that person doing an immoral activity; because no one seemingly cares has nothing to do with whether or not a job should be done right.
but what about the shareholders pressuring that guy to increase profits, with no thought to the consequences?
You can't say that shareholder pressure permits immoral activity. Shareholders have the knowledge that what they are doing is an elaborate gambling scheme. If they lose money, it's on their own heads, they knew there was risk involved. To say, "I was only doing immoral activity XYZ because the shareholds pressured my company to make money", is nothing more than a poor excuse for immoral behavior. The shareholders themselves are not immoral; they invested money into a corporation, helping it out, with the full knowledge that they risk losing all their money or doubling it. To say their dollar pressure causes immoral activity is wrong; as mentioned previously, pressure of having to make a profit does not permit immoral activity, thus, people committing the immoral activity are in the wrong.
Corporations are all too often just a mental game. A way of blaming someone else for your own weakness, your own greed. They are the manifestation of a culture of lust and cowardice.
I work for a corporation not for my own greed, but to provide for my family. Most will concur there is nothing immoral about that. Sure, we'd all like to have more money, but in the end, corporations are a way to make a living, both for employee and employer. Corporations also spawn competition, which more often than not, results in better products, possibly improving or advancing humanity as a whole.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
-- modified at 15:44 Tuesday 30th August, 2005
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look i know u probably mean well and all but i really dont have time to explain why i think corporations that care for nothing other than their bottom lines are not a good thing... if u dont get it already then my explanations wont make anything any clearer and btw stop trying to make me a spokes person for anything anti-corporate ... all i did was make a comment actually supporting MS for once!!
some reading you might find illuminating: Is Your Boss (or corporation) a Psychopath?[^]
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Judah Himango wrote: Doing immoral things in order to make money, OTOH, that would be evil. The thing is... how far removed from the immoral things do you have to be before you can stop considering yourself tainted by them? Sure, it's easy to cry "Evil!" at the guy making the decision to (say) replace a healthy ingredient with a cheaper (but less-than-healthy) one, or use cheap paint on a contract that won't be renewed, or cut quality control... but what about the shareholders pressuring that guy to increase profits, with no thought to the consequences? What about the laborers actually producing shoddy work, simply because it's easier and no-one seems to care? What about the people buying the products, or the politicians picking the lowest bidder in spite of a sketchy track record? What about the voters, who voted in the guy who said he would cut taxes instead of the guy who said he would build better schools? Corporations are all too often just a mental game. A way of blaming someone else for your own weakness, your own greed. They are the manifestation of a culture of lust and cowardice. Also, some manufacture damn good airconditioners. Guess which one of those paragraphs i'll put on my resume... :rolleyes:
Shog9 wrote: Guess which one of those paragraphs i'll put on my resume none of them.