Microsoft and Hollywood?
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If you can't or won't explain yourself, that's fine, I was only curious to understand the thinking behind the "all corporations are bad" idea, which is often rampant in the web's various tech peanut galleries, such as Slashdot.
btw stop trying to make me a spokes person for anything anti-corporate
I didn't, you did. You said in your first post, and I quote, "im as anti-corporation as anyone", implying that you are anti-corporate as others seemingly are.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
Hi Judah. I won't presume to speak for Lauren, but it seems clear that you have taken something simple she stated and attempted to turn it into something else, for which I wouldn't blame Lauren should she be frustrated by it. As I read this thread, I got frustrated by it. Lauren wrote: "im as anti-corporation as anyone"... You turned it into: "all corporations are bad"... that's not what she wrote. Lauren wrote: "i dont work for a corporation and i never will... its not compatible with my view of life"... You turned it into "corporations are evil"... that's not what she wrote. Lauren wrote: "i think most corporations put profit above all other considerations and measure any venture by its profit potential ... that is where i 100% disagree with them ..." You wrote to her: "If you can't or won't explain yourself, that's fine, I was only curious to understand the thinking behind the 'all corporations are bad' idea" I think Lauren explained herself quite well, and frankly given how you responded, she was right in assuming that further explanation would do her no good. Are you sure you paid attention to what she actually wrote, as opposed to what you *think* she meant? I appreciate the points she made. You have created an entire discussion line that suggested she said something different. I think you made some interesting points too, even eloquently, but you were discussing something different, and again, I wouldn't blame Lauren should she be frustrated by your lack of attention to what she *actually wrote*.
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Hmmm, this conversation seems to be entering a rathole. Oh well. What was your question anyway? about the non-profit corporation? They do exist, regardless of Lauren's rantings. And they cannot legally make a profit. That doesn't mean some of the people leading the non-profit aren't making a potload of money. But, I think, that's a different story and question to Lauren's rantings. Oh, by the way, please take all my postings with a grain of salt -- I do mean them in good-spirited humor. Good luck in school! yes I went to your site.
ahz wrote: Hmmm, this conversation seems to be entering a rathole. no, this conversation is over :) ahz wrote: What was your question anyway? Claim: "no i dont work for a corporation and i never will... its not compatible with my view of life" Question: "What about non profit corporations, are they bad, too? " link[^] ahz wrote: Good luck in school! yes I went to your site. Thanks. LOL I have a problem in FF: XML Parsing Error: not well-formed Location: http://dnhsoftware.org/MFF/IdiotsGuide.aspx Line Number 666, Column 66: Oops my page is obsessed with devil :~ Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
Shog9 wrote: Guess which one of those paragraphs i'll put on my resume none of them.
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Hi Judah. I won't presume to speak for Lauren, but it seems clear that you have taken something simple she stated and attempted to turn it into something else, for which I wouldn't blame Lauren should she be frustrated by it. As I read this thread, I got frustrated by it. Lauren wrote: "im as anti-corporation as anyone"... You turned it into: "all corporations are bad"... that's not what she wrote. Lauren wrote: "i dont work for a corporation and i never will... its not compatible with my view of life"... You turned it into "corporations are evil"... that's not what she wrote. Lauren wrote: "i think most corporations put profit above all other considerations and measure any venture by its profit potential ... that is where i 100% disagree with them ..." You wrote to her: "If you can't or won't explain yourself, that's fine, I was only curious to understand the thinking behind the 'all corporations are bad' idea" I think Lauren explained herself quite well, and frankly given how you responded, she was right in assuming that further explanation would do her no good. Are you sure you paid attention to what she actually wrote, as opposed to what you *think* she meant? I appreciate the points she made. You have created an entire discussion line that suggested she said something different. I think you made some interesting points too, even eloquently, but you were discussing something different, and again, I wouldn't blame Lauren should she be frustrated by your lack of attention to what she *actually wrote*.
The "corporations are evil/bad" thought is what I derive from Lauren's statements that she is anti-corporate. If she doesn't think corporations are bad, I am mistaken. So, what are you saying, Mike? Are you saying Lauren thinks corporations are good and beneficial? How is that reconciled with her being a self-proclaimed anti-corporate person? If not good and beneficial, then what? It's both reasonable and readily perceived that 'anti-corporate' implies dislike or hatred of corporations in general, and in the current climate of tech politics, it also implies the thinking that corporations are greedy or otherwise immoral, wouldn't you agree?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
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I phrased that question badly. :-O Of course, an individual corporation may have one goal, while another may have completely different objectives. But what is the purpose in forming a corporation? What is the purpose in allowing them? From your link, it would seem that the common ground for both commercial and non-profit corporations would be protection from personal liability. Which brings up my second question above - why do we allow such a thing? That is, what benefit does Society gain from allowing such an entity to be created?
Shog9 wrote: why do we allow such a thing? That is, what benefit does Society gain from allowing such an entity to be created? Ask those who create laws, or their voters :) My mom is accountant, so I am kind of expert in those things :-D It seems to me (at least in environment of my country) you can get benefits for your company/corporation/whatever, but it takes a LOT paper work, so not everybody uses all benefits they (even legally I belive) can get... but then agin I don't really know a thing about this all. Was my answer of any use? because I am not sure... :-O Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidy -
ahz wrote: Hmmm, this conversation seems to be entering a rathole. no, this conversation is over :) ahz wrote: What was your question anyway? Claim: "no i dont work for a corporation and i never will... its not compatible with my view of life" Question: "What about non profit corporations, are they bad, too? " link[^] ahz wrote: Good luck in school! yes I went to your site. Thanks. LOL I have a problem in FF: XML Parsing Error: not well-formed Location: http://dnhsoftware.org/MFF/IdiotsGuide.aspx Line Number 666, Column 66: Oops my page is obsessed with devil :~ Never forget: "Stay kul and happy" (I.A.)
David's thoughts / dnhsoftware.org / MyHTMLTidydnh wrote: no, this conversation is over Whew! Good! :-)
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The "corporations are evil/bad" thought is what I derive from Lauren's statements that she is anti-corporate. If she doesn't think corporations are bad, I am mistaken. So, what are you saying, Mike? Are you saying Lauren thinks corporations are good and beneficial? How is that reconciled with her being a self-proclaimed anti-corporate person? If not good and beneficial, then what? It's both reasonable and readily perceived that 'anti-corporate' implies dislike or hatred of corporations in general, and in the current climate of tech politics, it also implies the thinking that corporations are greedy or otherwise immoral, wouldn't you agree?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
Hi Judah. Judah Himango wrote: So, what are you saying, Mike? Are you saying Lauren thinks corporations are good and beneficial? Judah, I said what I wanted to say, and it was as clear as I could make it. Just read what I wrote and pay attention to it - without attempting to "derive" something else! Judah Himango wrote: The "corporations are evil/bad" thought is what I derive from Lauren's statements that she is anti-corporate. Yup. That's precisely the point. You "derived" that. That's not what she wrote. You believe it is reasonable to derive that "corporations are evil" from what Lauren wrote. I disagree.
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Hi Judah. Judah Himango wrote: So, what are you saying, Mike? Are you saying Lauren thinks corporations are good and beneficial? Judah, I said what I wanted to say, and it was as clear as I could make it. Just read what I wrote and pay attention to it - without attempting to "derive" something else! Judah Himango wrote: The "corporations are evil/bad" thought is what I derive from Lauren's statements that she is anti-corporate. Yup. That's precisely the point. You "derived" that. That's not what she wrote. You believe it is reasonable to derive that "corporations are evil" from what Lauren wrote. I disagree.
You "derived" that. That's not what she wrote. You believe it is reasonable to derive that "corporations are evil" from what Lauren wrote. I disagree.
I understand that. You don't think she's saying corporations are bad, as it seems to me otherwise, but hey, you corrected me. So, enlighten me, is she saying they are good? :confused: + :rolleyes:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
-- modified at 17:41 Tuesday 30th August, 2005
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You "derived" that. That's not what she wrote. You believe it is reasonable to derive that "corporations are evil" from what Lauren wrote. I disagree.
I understand that. You don't think she's saying corporations are bad, as it seems to me otherwise, but hey, you corrected me. So, enlighten me, is she saying they are good? :confused: + :rolleyes:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
-- modified at 17:41 Tuesday 30th August, 2005
Judah Himango wrote: So, enlighten me, is she saying they are good? I think she is saying that most corporations put profit above all other considerations and measure any venture by its profit potential and that she disagrees with putting profit above all other considerations. And I know that because that's what she wrote, and I chose to pay attention to what she actually wrote. If she were saying they are good, she probably would have written "Corporations are good." If she were saying that they are evil, she probably would have written "Corporations are evil." Instead, she wrote: "most corporations put profit above all other considerations and measure any venture by its profit potential" and that she disagrees with that.
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You "derived" that. That's not what she wrote. You believe it is reasonable to derive that "corporations are evil" from what Lauren wrote. I disagree.
I understand that. You don't think she's saying corporations are bad, as it seems to me otherwise, but hey, you corrected me. So, enlighten me, is she saying they are good? :confused: + :rolleyes:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
-- modified at 17:41 Tuesday 30th August, 2005
And furthermore - this thread was about "Microsoft and Hollywood" and Lauren's original point had little to do with her views on the motivations of corporations. You sort of ran off on the "anti-corporate" thing and turned the discussion into something completely different. Not that having a discussion on corporate motivations, or whether corporations are good or evil is a bad thing. Like I said before, I think you made some interesting points in the context of that discussion. But when Lauren accused you of "putting words in my mouth", she was certainly correct. You did that by ignoring what she actually wrote, in favor of a different discussion.
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Judah Himango wrote: So, enlighten me, is she saying they are good? I think she is saying that most corporations put profit above all other considerations and measure any venture by its profit potential and that she disagrees with putting profit above all other considerations. And I know that because that's what she wrote, and I chose to pay attention to what she actually wrote. If she were saying they are good, she probably would have written "Corporations are good." If she were saying that they are evil, she probably would have written "Corporations are evil." Instead, she wrote: "most corporations put profit above all other considerations and measure any venture by its profit potential" and that she disagrees with that.
This is really a pointless argument, Mike. I asked the reasoning behind the idea that corporations are "bad". I asked this because she said she was anti-corporate. You split hairs over whether she believes corporations are "bad" or not. X| Ok, that's nice and fine. Let me rephrase my original question so as to get around your hair splitting arguments: What is the thinking behind the anti-corporate idea, given that a corporation's sole existance is to make money? Problem solved. :-)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
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And furthermore - this thread was about "Microsoft and Hollywood" and Lauren's original point had little to do with her views on the motivations of corporations. You sort of ran off on the "anti-corporate" thing and turned the discussion into something completely different. Not that having a discussion on corporate motivations, or whether corporations are good or evil is a bad thing. Like I said before, I think you made some interesting points in the context of that discussion. But when Lauren accused you of "putting words in my mouth", she was certainly correct. You did that by ignoring what she actually wrote, in favor of a different discussion.
I apologize for hijacking the thread. My intention with the question of anti-corporate thinking was for understanding it myself, not for hijacking the whole dang thread. :-)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
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This is really a pointless argument, Mike. I asked the reasoning behind the idea that corporations are "bad". I asked this because she said she was anti-corporate. You split hairs over whether she believes corporations are "bad" or not. X| Ok, that's nice and fine. Let me rephrase my original question so as to get around your hair splitting arguments: What is the thinking behind the anti-corporate idea, given that a corporation's sole existance is to make money? Problem solved. :-)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote: This is really a pointless argument, Mike I'm afraid I won't let you go with that. This is neither an argument, nor is it pointless. The point is (and I'm still not sure you're getting it) Lauren made very specific (and quite clear) statements. You derived something entirely different, and made a new conversation from it. In doing so, you showed no recognition that you were in fact "putting words into Lauren's mouth" and that that was causing frustration. The new conversation was good. Nothing wrong with it (start a new thread, and I might even join you on it... maybe even *agree* with some of your points!) But you don't recognize the frustration you caused Lauren and how you caused that frustration by conflating her words into yours. This is not "splitting hairs", nor is it pointless. You just don't like the point!
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Hi Judah. I won't presume to speak for Lauren, but it seems clear that you have taken something simple she stated and attempted to turn it into something else, for which I wouldn't blame Lauren should she be frustrated by it. As I read this thread, I got frustrated by it. Lauren wrote: "im as anti-corporation as anyone"... You turned it into: "all corporations are bad"... that's not what she wrote. Lauren wrote: "i dont work for a corporation and i never will... its not compatible with my view of life"... You turned it into "corporations are evil"... that's not what she wrote. Lauren wrote: "i think most corporations put profit above all other considerations and measure any venture by its profit potential ... that is where i 100% disagree with them ..." You wrote to her: "If you can't or won't explain yourself, that's fine, I was only curious to understand the thinking behind the 'all corporations are bad' idea" I think Lauren explained herself quite well, and frankly given how you responded, she was right in assuming that further explanation would do her no good. Are you sure you paid attention to what she actually wrote, as opposed to what you *think* she meant? I appreciate the points she made. You have created an entire discussion line that suggested she said something different. I think you made some interesting points too, even eloquently, but you were discussing something different, and again, I wouldn't blame Lauren should she be frustrated by your lack of attention to what she *actually wrote*.
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I just wanted to thank everyone that commented on this thread. I am really hoping that the customer wins out on this one but it is not a level playing field, in a time when the government wants to regulate everything from the internet, to TV to IP Phones I feel this is a loosing battle. Next will be grid/utility computing where none of the software is yours, none of the hardware is yours and you will only have access to content via subscription fee. Well I guess we have no choice but to sit down and wait...or do we? Will
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Judah Himango wrote: This is really a pointless argument, Mike I'm afraid I won't let you go with that. This is neither an argument, nor is it pointless. The point is (and I'm still not sure you're getting it) Lauren made very specific (and quite clear) statements. You derived something entirely different, and made a new conversation from it. In doing so, you showed no recognition that you were in fact "putting words into Lauren's mouth" and that that was causing frustration. The new conversation was good. Nothing wrong with it (start a new thread, and I might even join you on it... maybe even *agree* with some of your points!) But you don't recognize the frustration you caused Lauren and how you caused that frustration by conflating her words into yours. This is not "splitting hairs", nor is it pointless. You just don't like the point!
Mike Ellison wrote: I'm afraid I won't let you go with that. Darn, I was hoping to get away with that! ;-) Ok, I take back my points about her thinking corporations are evil. I will instead say she is anti-corporate, and I only assume she believes corporations are generally "bad". :-) *edit* hey, thanks for the comments about the blog, I appreciate it.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
-- modified at 10:42 Wednesday 31st August, 2005
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Mike Ellison wrote: I'm afraid I won't let you go with that. Darn, I was hoping to get away with that! ;-) Ok, I take back my points about her thinking corporations are evil. I will instead say she is anti-corporate, and I only assume she believes corporations are generally "bad". :-) *edit* hey, thanks for the comments about the blog, I appreciate it.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
-- modified at 10:42 Wednesday 31st August, 2005
Nope, you still don't get it.
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Nope, you still don't get it.
What, would you have me apologize to Lauren for making her feel frustrated? :rolleyes: It wasn't my intent to frustrate anyone, I simply asked a question about her views which seem prevalent among a lot of tech people. Now that this thread has been long since been forked into a wild tangent from my initial query, I'm done arguing, you win.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
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What, would you have me apologize to Lauren for making her feel frustrated? :rolleyes: It wasn't my intent to frustrate anyone, I simply asked a question about her views which seem prevalent among a lot of tech people. Now that this thread has been long since been forked into a wild tangent from my initial query, I'm done arguing, you win.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
Nope - swing and a miss again.