A Bunch Of Crybabies?
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Didn't say it was free. It's a place to download Windows:) Just curious though, how long does it take YOU to download the bits? For me it's like half a day per CD and since I like the Debian distro that's quite some time. Any ideas on how to cut that down? ------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done.
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l a u r e n wrote: thats cos the oo people dont build binaries But they do for Windows, don't they? Granted, it's slightly more complex for Linux, since it supports multiple processor architectures (x86, PPC etc), but a "packaged" install would be great. I bet most people run Linux on x68 boxes, so you'd cover most of your "market" with a single package. It seems to me (and I do build Linux installs, and install not-included-with-the-distro apps on them), that things are just harder to do in Linux. My gut feeling is that these things aren't harder to do for the people developing the installations, so there is no perceived need for them. As is always the case, everything is easy once you know how to do it, but the path to get to that point seems harder with Linux.
there are packaged installs of just about anything i could ever need or want and more: in fedora they use rpm's with a management front end in debian they use deb with a simple front end to manage them in suse also a simple packaging system the argument ur making is totally without merit on a modern linux distro ... plus linux does support many architectures as u say and runs on a far wider range of hardware than windows
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I have a 256 DSL connection. It's plenty fast for what I want to do with it. I just wondered if you had a solution for getting the distro faster. And yes, I have tried bitorrent but it is still a 3 hour download one disk at a time. ------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done.
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No typo. :-) I married my wife last year. She had a son when she was in high school; the father wasn't there for him, so after we got married, I adopted him as my own. He turned 5 this January, go watch[^] his birthday party. :cool:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
Thanks Judah :-) Nice video - was fun to see your son lick the cream off the car and the candles - I think I did that too as a kid - off the candles, didn't have a car in any of my kiddie b'day cakes :-)
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I have a 256 DSL connection. It's plenty fast for what I want to do with it. I just wondered if you had a solution for getting the distro faster. And yes, I have tried bitorrent but it is still a 3 hour download one disk at a time. ------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done.
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No typo. :-) I married my wife last year. She had a son when she was in high school; the father wasn't there for him, so after we got married, I adopted him as my own. He turned 5 this January, go watch[^] his birthday party. :cool:
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
Ugh. I'm not looking forward to the "world most energetic 5 year old" stage. I'm already fearing it and we just brought our daughter home from the hospital:sigh: I guess the good thing about it though will be the fact that I'll finally get all the exercise I've been avoiding for the last 6-7 years:) ------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done.
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i agree the difference with the win31 and (say) the win95 -> win xp interface is tremendous and worthwhile ... it actually made things easier to use in a lot of ways ... but vista? now because it has shiny translucent buttons it makes programs work better? and no u wont see many "commercial apps for linux" because thats not how linux works generally ... what u will see is some _extremely_ successful apps for linux (and more coming every day) developed by individuals / companies who have a different philosophy to the typical commercial companies its not about "i dont like it so im going somewhere else" or "i cant afford it" ... its about "my customers want..." and thats where i earn my living and will continue to do so ;)
I'll apologize ahead of time that I don't take your exclusively open source, free software view and instead choose to live in the Microsoft camp. Since I know that's going to be what it comes down to: the fact that you and I are in different camps. That being said, I do use free software. I use Apache, Subversion, Mono. I've used PHP, MySQL, etc. Every time a new Fedora release comes out, I download and install it in VMWare. I like paying attention to where "The Other Side" is. See, I agree with this post. But the rest of what you've said is rubbish. In every argument here today, you've ignored the myriad other tremendous advancements that they're making within Vista and instead focusing only on the glitz (Avalon, the Windows Presentation Foundation, the pretty shiny buttons, whatever you want to call it). Judah did a great job of listing off some of the really cool new features in Vista. Among my favorites is the integrated search. They've done away with the search dog...yay, and integrated MSN Desktop Search into the OS. The virtual folders are awesome. I like the Sidebar and the fact that I can pull Gadgets of the Sidebar and onto the Desktop. I like all the core improvments they've made such as the restart manager that further reduces the number of restarts you have to do to install software or updates. I like the fact that startup is faster. I loved the new memory stuff I saw in the keynote here at the PDC. Because I have an uber-powerful laptop, I wouldn't probably use the whole USB Drive == More RAM thing...but it would be nice to use my USB Drive on lesser powered computers when I want to beef them up a bit. When Apple released OSX, did you criticize them for making the OS look nice and shiny? Did you ignore the fact that they released all these cool other features like Spotlight, Dashboard, Expose, Fast User Switching, etc in favor of mocking Quartz and the UI updates? Probably not. And the truth is that, if Gnome was updated to use vector graphics, translucent window borders, new animations for windows and menus, and had a 3D tiled view of all your windows when you hit Alt+Tab, you'd be all for it and you'd be railing on Microsoft for having such an outdated look to their crappy OS. Lauren, you have to remember that Real People (and I mean users) love UI glitz (yeah, even developers). I've showed non-developers all the cool new "real features" in Vista, and the reaction usually is "Oh, that's cool." But as soon as you show them the sidebar or how translucent the borders
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Won't that require the download of several packages, thus making it take forever? I'm looking for general use not a web server. That and I'm not that good at network stuff so I'm not sure I could configure for a net install. Who knows, I've only got 5 things to do this weekend, maybe I'll get bored and try it. ------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done.
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Ugh. I'm not looking forward to the "world most energetic 5 year old" stage. I'm already fearing it and we just brought our daughter home from the hospital:sigh: I guess the good thing about it though will be the fact that I'll finally get all the exercise I've been avoiding for the last 6-7 years:) ------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done.
Hi again Nicholas Heheh, man, at 5, he's so crazy. He wants to play every minute of every day. I feel bad saying no, so I almost always end up saying yes. What can you do? :rolleyes: Hopefully for you, girls will be less active. :-)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
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I'll apologize ahead of time that I don't take your exclusively open source, free software view and instead choose to live in the Microsoft camp. Since I know that's going to be what it comes down to: the fact that you and I are in different camps. That being said, I do use free software. I use Apache, Subversion, Mono. I've used PHP, MySQL, etc. Every time a new Fedora release comes out, I download and install it in VMWare. I like paying attention to where "The Other Side" is. See, I agree with this post. But the rest of what you've said is rubbish. In every argument here today, you've ignored the myriad other tremendous advancements that they're making within Vista and instead focusing only on the glitz (Avalon, the Windows Presentation Foundation, the pretty shiny buttons, whatever you want to call it). Judah did a great job of listing off some of the really cool new features in Vista. Among my favorites is the integrated search. They've done away with the search dog...yay, and integrated MSN Desktop Search into the OS. The virtual folders are awesome. I like the Sidebar and the fact that I can pull Gadgets of the Sidebar and onto the Desktop. I like all the core improvments they've made such as the restart manager that further reduces the number of restarts you have to do to install software or updates. I like the fact that startup is faster. I loved the new memory stuff I saw in the keynote here at the PDC. Because I have an uber-powerful laptop, I wouldn't probably use the whole USB Drive == More RAM thing...but it would be nice to use my USB Drive on lesser powered computers when I want to beef them up a bit. When Apple released OSX, did you criticize them for making the OS look nice and shiny? Did you ignore the fact that they released all these cool other features like Spotlight, Dashboard, Expose, Fast User Switching, etc in favor of mocking Quartz and the UI updates? Probably not. And the truth is that, if Gnome was updated to use vector graphics, translucent window borders, new animations for windows and menus, and had a 3D tiled view of all your windows when you hit Alt+Tab, you'd be all for it and you'd be railing on Microsoft for having such an outdated look to their crappy OS. Lauren, you have to remember that Real People (and I mean users) love UI glitz (yeah, even developers). I've showed non-developers all the cool new "real features" in Vista, and the reaction usually is "Oh, that's cool." But as soon as you show them the sidebar or how translucent the borders
errrrrrr i also use xp and develop for it and if one of my clients wants a glitzy shiny ui with vista i'll do it ... thats what developers do cos thats how we get paid what i was saying is simply that i follow what my customers want ... then it got dragged into a linux / windows debate by others and i simply responded ... i have no desire to evangelicize linux here ... its a ms site ... i just respond to erroneous statements made by others is all and as for real people? well the 150k+ real people per day who use one of the websites i am responsible for dont give a rats bum about what its running on in the background as long as it works ... and it does ... and it doesnt cost 10% of the cost of it running on ms software ... THATS what my customers want and i have to say they look pretty real to me as for the eye candy ... great i love it ... users love it ... but the plumbing changes in vista? to make it more secure? copied from linux / unix ... vector graphics? cairo / gtk2 ... osx? great software for people who dont know and dont want to know what goes on under the hood ur beef isnt with me cos im not mr linux ... i simply do my job according to the requirements of my clients
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Won't that require the download of several packages, thus making it take forever? I'm looking for general use not a web server. That and I'm not that good at network stuff so I'm not sure I could configure for a net install. Who knows, I've only got 5 things to do this weekend, maybe I'll get bored and try it. ------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done.
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Hi again Nicholas Heheh, man, at 5, he's so crazy. He wants to play every minute of every day. I feel bad saying no, so I almost always end up saying yes. What can you do? :rolleyes: Hopefully for you, girls will be less active. :-)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Cops & Robbers Judah Himango
Doubt that. She's already not liking to sleep when we want her to and sleeping when we want her awake. It's a bad sign when during the labor the nurse tells you that you have a difficult baby because it keeps demanding that your wife lay in just such a way to stay on the heart monitor:sigh: She's getting better though. I'm hoping right along with you but my two neices aren't any less active when they're awake:-D ------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done.
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and ur holier than thou fanboy bs is really tiresome too but i dont complain about it i raised the issue of my experience to make it clear i do know what im talking about as opposed to someone who has been involved in software development for ... how long judah? ur 22 so i guess 5 years maybe? ... and who has used a linux live cd (which incidentally windows cant do but never mind i digress) once or twice ... and yet u spout about how windows is superior to a product u know jack sh*t about?? go back to school please and get the self-righteous stick out of ur ass
Hang on. If you're going to be saying "know what you're talking about before you open your mouth" every few minutes, then you have a much greater responsibility to check your own facts. Windows can do live CDs...observe: Microsoft Windows Preinstallation Environment[^] BartPE[^] You can most certainly do WinPE Live CDs...and you can install pretty much anything on them that you want.
Picture a huge catholic cathedral. In it there's many people, including a gregorian monk choir. You know, those who sing beautifully. Then they start singing, in latin, as they always do: "Ad hominem..." -Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Hang on. If you're going to be saying "know what you're talking about before you open your mouth" every few minutes, then you have a much greater responsibility to check your own facts. Windows can do live CDs...observe: Microsoft Windows Preinstallation Environment[^] BartPE[^] You can most certainly do WinPE Live CDs...and you can install pretty much anything on them that you want.
Picture a huge catholic cathedral. In it there's many people, including a gregorian monk choir. You know, those who sing beautifully. Then they start singing, in latin, as they always do: "Ad hominem..." -Jörgen Sigvardsson
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errrrrrr i also use xp and develop for it and if one of my clients wants a glitzy shiny ui with vista i'll do it ... thats what developers do cos thats how we get paid what i was saying is simply that i follow what my customers want ... then it got dragged into a linux / windows debate by others and i simply responded ... i have no desire to evangelicize linux here ... its a ms site ... i just respond to erroneous statements made by others is all and as for real people? well the 150k+ real people per day who use one of the websites i am responsible for dont give a rats bum about what its running on in the background as long as it works ... and it does ... and it doesnt cost 10% of the cost of it running on ms software ... THATS what my customers want and i have to say they look pretty real to me as for the eye candy ... great i love it ... users love it ... but the plumbing changes in vista? to make it more secure? copied from linux / unix ... vector graphics? cairo / gtk2 ... osx? great software for people who dont know and dont want to know what goes on under the hood ur beef isnt with me cos im not mr linux ... i simply do my job according to the requirements of my clients
Lauren, I've never had a beef with you. I love the fact that you're here and that you seem to attract so much trouble. It was kinda boring when you were gone. ;) However, as far as the whole "copied from..." thing, I'm reminded of the words of Solomon: "There is nothing new under the sun." Yeah, Microsoft's behind the ball on UI, Security, etc. But some of this stuff they're way ahead in. For instance, the Linq Project[^]. Holy crap, it's waaaay cool. I'm at PDC and I've been going to almost every session on Linq that I could go to. I haven't seen this in any other programming langauge out there. Parts of it are in other languages (Lambda expressions, inference typing, and object initializers come to mind), but not all wrapped into this one big langauge integrated data query method that works over any enumerable collection. People here are complaining that the DLinq portion of Linq is just a fancy ORM layer...and that's partially true. So yeah, Microsoft's copying other ORM packages, but Linq and the standard query expressions itself, totally new. Linux is a copy of Unix. Windows is a copy of the MacOS. OpenOffice is a copy of Microsoft Office. Your software is a copy of some other software. There's not a whole lot of new stuff that comes out.
Picture a huge catholic cathedral. In it there's many people, including a gregorian monk choir. You know, those who sing beautifully. Then they start singing, in latin, as they always do: "Ad hominem..." -Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Yeah. I mean...I'm not going to go installing Office on it. ;P But I can put PuTTY, Subversion, Notepad2, Remote Desktop, the Citrix ICA client (we run Citrix at work...so that's how I'd get to my Office Suite), etc. on the disk and, essentially, I'd have a leaner version of my dev machine that I could actually work on if need be. :)
Picture a huge catholic cathedral. In it there's many people, including a gregorian monk choir. You know, those who sing beautifully. Then they start singing, in latin, as they always do: "Ad hominem..." -Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Anders Molin wrote: Why is it that so many people complain about development/evolution of software? Every time MS comes with something new and fancy people go "I Can not afford to develop stuff like that" or "I don't like it, I'm switching to Linux" The orginal point of this thread has been lost in the continual defense of Linux. That wasn't the point! I happen to enjoy working on Linux but the majority of people are comfortable using Windows. Would switching to Linux in a corporate environment really be cheap? Think about it: retrain ALL your employees. I think Vista has some really cool features in it but the fact that most people are not in a hurry to switch from 2000 or XP proves how good those OS really are! Average users don't care what they use as long as it works and they don't have to learn anything new to do their job. -- modified at 14:05 Friday 16th September, 2005
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Lauren, I've never had a beef with you. I love the fact that you're here and that you seem to attract so much trouble. It was kinda boring when you were gone. ;) However, as far as the whole "copied from..." thing, I'm reminded of the words of Solomon: "There is nothing new under the sun." Yeah, Microsoft's behind the ball on UI, Security, etc. But some of this stuff they're way ahead in. For instance, the Linq Project[^]. Holy crap, it's waaaay cool. I'm at PDC and I've been going to almost every session on Linq that I could go to. I haven't seen this in any other programming langauge out there. Parts of it are in other languages (Lambda expressions, inference typing, and object initializers come to mind), but not all wrapped into this one big langauge integrated data query method that works over any enumerable collection. People here are complaining that the DLinq portion of Linq is just a fancy ORM layer...and that's partially true. So yeah, Microsoft's copying other ORM packages, but Linq and the standard query expressions itself, totally new. Linux is a copy of Unix. Windows is a copy of the MacOS. OpenOffice is a copy of Microsoft Office. Your software is a copy of some other software. There's not a whole lot of new stuff that comes out.
Picture a huge catholic cathedral. In it there's many people, including a gregorian monk choir. You know, those who sing beautifully. Then they start singing, in latin, as they always do: "Ad hominem..." -Jörgen Sigvardsson
u know i have to say that i wished i was back in the 90's when ms really were the company to beat and to work for and to work with ... they really rocked ... they were smart and out-innovated everybody on the planet ... and i made a very nice living programming windows apps with my vs ide ... it was so cool fast forward to 2005 and we have the internet being almost the single most important thing to happen since the personal computer ... we have a host of other ways to write apps and we have a security nightmare because ms didnt design windows for security what do they do? they try to make the web proprietary ... they dont decouple IE from the underlying OS so we still have a security nightmare (please note this is not an IE bash ... its simply saying that any time a browser is plugged straight into the core OS the potential for trouble is an order of magnitude greater) ... and we have customer lock-in and strong arm tactics to keep people from trying alternatives that to me is not the ms of the 90's who rocked so vista has cool stuff in it ... yes i have no doubt it does because ms hires some of the smartest people on the planet ... but to be touting the filling of the huge holes in security as a feature is a bit of a joke ... to be announcing features they arent going to deliver is also a bit sad ... to be spreading FUD as they do is also a bit sad i honestly think ms have become less relevant than they used to be and i can see nothing on their horizon that will change that
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Yeah. I mean...I'm not going to go installing Office on it. ;P But I can put PuTTY, Subversion, Notepad2, Remote Desktop, the Citrix ICA client (we run Citrix at work...so that's how I'd get to my Office Suite), etc. on the disk and, essentially, I'd have a leaner version of my dev machine that I could actually work on if need be. :)
Picture a huge catholic cathedral. In it there's many people, including a gregorian monk choir. You know, those who sing beautifully. Then they start singing, in latin, as they always do: "Ad hominem..." -Jörgen Sigvardsson
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I'll apologize ahead of time that I don't take your exclusively open source, free software view and instead choose to live in the Microsoft camp. Since I know that's going to be what it comes down to: the fact that you and I are in different camps. That being said, I do use free software. I use Apache, Subversion, Mono. I've used PHP, MySQL, etc. Every time a new Fedora release comes out, I download and install it in VMWare. I like paying attention to where "The Other Side" is. See, I agree with this post. But the rest of what you've said is rubbish. In every argument here today, you've ignored the myriad other tremendous advancements that they're making within Vista and instead focusing only on the glitz (Avalon, the Windows Presentation Foundation, the pretty shiny buttons, whatever you want to call it). Judah did a great job of listing off some of the really cool new features in Vista. Among my favorites is the integrated search. They've done away with the search dog...yay, and integrated MSN Desktop Search into the OS. The virtual folders are awesome. I like the Sidebar and the fact that I can pull Gadgets of the Sidebar and onto the Desktop. I like all the core improvments they've made such as the restart manager that further reduces the number of restarts you have to do to install software or updates. I like the fact that startup is faster. I loved the new memory stuff I saw in the keynote here at the PDC. Because I have an uber-powerful laptop, I wouldn't probably use the whole USB Drive == More RAM thing...but it would be nice to use my USB Drive on lesser powered computers when I want to beef them up a bit. When Apple released OSX, did you criticize them for making the OS look nice and shiny? Did you ignore the fact that they released all these cool other features like Spotlight, Dashboard, Expose, Fast User Switching, etc in favor of mocking Quartz and the UI updates? Probably not. And the truth is that, if Gnome was updated to use vector graphics, translucent window borders, new animations for windows and menus, and had a 3D tiled view of all your windows when you hit Alt+Tab, you'd be all for it and you'd be railing on Microsoft for having such an outdated look to their crappy OS. Lauren, you have to remember that Real People (and I mean users) love UI glitz (yeah, even developers). I've showed non-developers all the cool new "real features" in Vista, and the reaction usually is "Oh, that's cool." But as soon as you show them the sidebar or how translucent the borders
Wow - if Microsoft saw this post, they'd want you as an Evangelist I bet :-)