The rise of neosocialist extremism in Germany
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I don't think this differs from my projections Not much, though I think your description of the SED PDS left party is exaggerated. They pose no immediate threat, they are just a bunch of populists and disappointed socialists who have no purpose but opposition. They merely make things more difficult for "serious poiliticians" (though you might doubt there are (m)any at all). The grand coalition will lead a politics of status quo Most probably. which will lead to gradual economic collapse and more extremism. At least disappointment. Whether disappointment leads to extremism is determined mainly by the alternatives - when there are none, yes, it will lead to extremism. Let's hope there will be some politicians who show better alternatives. The red red green coalition would legalize extremism. The left party forming part of the government would at least be a compelling reason for emigration. There are no good options on German desk, except for Neuwahl. Have reelections until the voters vote the right way? I don't see this as very democratic. <utopia mode> IMHO, the perfect solution would be a government made up of independant experts, maybe selected by all the parties in the parliament. They would at least know what they are doing, they would not be influenced too much by partisan politics, and they would look for varying majorities for their projects in parliament. </utopia mode> The situation is relatively stable, but will be much more difficult and dangerous in four years, if no reforms are undertaken. Agreed, at least it will be more difficult. Dangerous, see above. I wouldn't take European peace for granted under such circumstances. I think (hope?) the european idea is already so deep in the hearts and minds of people that European Peace is not at risk in the foreseeable future. And the left party is definitely not in a position to be a threat to european peace. Linke built campaign on Neidkultur and Angstpolitik (SPD did too). And Neidkultur is the primary problem of this country, it impedes almost every reform. The extremists received over 8% of votes In my electoral district, they received 20,9%. I hope the only reason is that Oskar Lafontaine as a person is traditionally very popular here... :~ It is a mistake to underestimate this threat to democracy. Things change. If five years ago one would describe the scope of anti-Americanism in Germany today one w
If I may ask - where are you from?
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
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If I may ask - where are you from?
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenSaarbrücken[^] it would seem. :) Good music: In my rosary[^]
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(1) The "neosocialist 'Linke'" did NOT exist 3 years ago. You are comparing to the results of the PDS which was virtually "unelectable" in west germany. So: doubled votes by quadrupling target audience. What a danger! (2) The greens are dominated by the Realo wing, which is dominated by conservative preservative regulators (rather than bearded pinko hippie treehuggers) (3) The SPD is as far from red as a non-functional traffic light. Under Schroeder, they became more a "center people's party", than a red threat. (4) The FDP - closest to your ideas of economy - increased from 7.5 to 10% (5) The Neonazi sinks (REP and NPD) have only marginal results at least get your facts right. But with one thing you are right: there are no good options on the table.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenpeterchen wrote: at least get your facts right. Since when did that ever stopped him? :-D Good music: In my rosary[^]
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Saarbrücken[^] it would seem. :) Good music: In my rosary[^]
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Saarbrücken Correct. Although I wish to add :rolleyes: that although Saarbrücken is a nice city (at least in summer), I have been living here for a little less than a year now and, at heart, am more Ostfriese than Saarländer :)
Chaque homme de culture a deux patries: la sienne - et la France. (Thomas Jefferson) -
Preliminary results in Germany from exit polls show the rise of extremism. The neosocialst "Linke" recorded largest increase in votes (a total of 7.5%...over 100% increase). There are no good options on the table. The grand coalition of Social Democrats and Christian Democrats - similar to coalition of reps and dems in the States - will block any meaningful reform in Germany and might lead to even bigger collapse of economy, which will increase extremism in four years and protectionism. or The red (SDP) + red (Linke) + green (GRUNE) coalition would after 50 years once again made Germany a credible threat to European peace. The amount of hatred and negativism in Linke is no smaller that that of early national socialist movement - they are ready for the streets. Suddenly, future is looking really, really dark for the EU. Perhaps the time has come to think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic; just in case things get really nasty here - I have no doubts about who the neosocialists will direct first pogroms against. Tomaž -- modified at 12:29 Sunday 18th September, 2005
And don't say "it's someone like you, Marc". :-D Marc My website Traceract Understanding Simple Data Binding Diary Of A CEO - Preface
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Alexander, I actually travel to Germany quite often, have friends there (I used to live in Munich) and scan your news - I know what I am talking about. Perhaps your tolerance of leftist extremism is very high and you don't perceive certain acts as extreme? Linke is definitely extreme party and I belive Germany should find itself in international isolation if Linke helps shape the govermnent. Tomaz
Tomaž Štih wrote: Perhaps your tolerance of leftist extremism is very high My tolerance of leftist extremism does not even exist! Don't try it, just do it! ;-)
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Saarbrücken[^] it would seem. :) Good music: In my rosary[^]
Ahh... nothing beats a little research :rolleyes:
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
Preliminary results in Germany from exit polls show the rise of extremism. The neosocialst "Linke" recorded largest increase in votes (a total of 7.5%...over 100% increase). There are no good options on the table. The grand coalition of Social Democrats and Christian Democrats - similar to coalition of reps and dems in the States - will block any meaningful reform in Germany and might lead to even bigger collapse of economy, which will increase extremism in four years and protectionism. or The red (SDP) + red (Linke) + green (GRUNE) coalition would after 50 years once again made Germany a credible threat to European peace. The amount of hatred and negativism in Linke is no smaller that that of early national socialist movement - they are ready for the streets. Suddenly, future is looking really, really dark for the EU. Perhaps the time has come to think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic; just in case things get really nasty here - I have no doubts about who the neosocialists will direct first pogroms against. Tomaž -- modified at 12:29 Sunday 18th September, 2005
Tomaž Štih wrote: The grand coalition of Social Democrats and Christian Democrats - similar to coalition of reps and dems in the States - will block any meaningful reform in Germany and might lead to even bigger collapse of economy, which will increase extremism in four years and protectionism Let's abolish Democracy, this threat against liberalism! Tomaž Štih wrote: Perhaps the time has come to think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic Hasta la vista, baby!
fat_boy wrote: I've got plenty of opinions, if you don't like them I've got plenty more
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(1) The "neosocialist 'Linke'" did NOT exist 3 years ago. You are comparing to the results of the PDS which was virtually "unelectable" in west germany. So: doubled votes by quadrupling target audience. What a danger! (2) The greens are dominated by the Realo wing, which is dominated by conservative preservative regulators (rather than bearded pinko hippie treehuggers) (3) The SPD is as far from red as a non-functional traffic light. Under Schroeder, they became more a "center people's party", than a red threat. (4) The FDP - closest to your ideas of economy - increased from 7.5 to 10% (5) The Neonazi sinks (REP and NPD) have only marginal results at least get your facts right. But with one thing you are right: there are no good options on the table.
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenWell, those are the facts, I got nothing to add. But will Tomyboy spend a minute to read it...? _________________________________ Please inform me about my English mistakes, as I'm still trying to learn your language! -- modified at 4:54 Monday 19th September, 2005
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Tomaž Štih wrote: The grand coalition of Social Democrats and Christian Democrats - similar to coalition of reps and dems in the States - will block any meaningful reform in Germany and might lead to even bigger collapse of economy, which will increase extremism in four years and protectionism Let's abolish Democracy, this threat against liberalism! Tomaž Štih wrote: Perhaps the time has come to think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic Hasta la vista, baby!
fat_boy wrote: I've got plenty of opinions, if you don't like them I've got plenty more
K(arl) wrote: Tomaž Štih wrote: think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic Hey Karl, do you know what that means? *dancing through the office* He's leaving! :-D Next time we'll be able to elect who we want to elect without some guy talking crap about democracy just because he doesn't like the result. :cool: Soon the soapbox will be cleaner! :rolleyes: _________________________________ Please inform me about my English mistakes, as I'm still trying to learn your language!
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K(arl) wrote: Tomaž Štih wrote: think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic Hey Karl, do you know what that means? *dancing through the office* He's leaving! :-D Next time we'll be able to elect who we want to elect without some guy talking crap about democracy just because he doesn't like the result. :cool: Soon the soapbox will be cleaner! :rolleyes: _________________________________ Please inform me about my English mistakes, as I'm still trying to learn your language!
:jig::jig::jig:, :beer::beer::beer:! Nah, to be honest, I think Tomaž' opinions are useful...they word quite well what I don't want to happen :-D
fat_boy wrote: I've got plenty of opinions, if you don't like them I've got plenty more
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Alexander, I actually travel to Germany quite often, have friends there (I used to live in Munich) and scan your news - I know what I am talking about. Perhaps your tolerance of leftist extremism is very high and you don't perceive certain acts as extreme? Linke is definitely extreme party and I belive Germany should find itself in international isolation if Linke helps shape the govermnent. Tomaz
I think that very few people in Germany are truly willing to see the neosocialist to access power. However, many Germans are protesting against the more representative leaders. We have such things in France with people voting the extreme right party just to tell politicians they are worried about the important and completely unmanaged immigration we have got. People do not actually go back to the franc or leave the EEC...
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Impressive map, I didn't realize there was such a North-South fracture. Why didn't Dresden vote?
fat_boy wrote: I've got plenty of opinions, if you don't like them I've got plenty more
K(arl) wrote: Why didn't Dresden vote? The candidate for Dresden of the NPD died less than two weeks ago, so they had to 1) let the NPD nominate a new candidate and then 2) reprint the ballots and restart the postal vote, so the whole voting in that part of Dresden had to be delayed.
Chaque homme de culture a deux patries: la sienne - et la France. (Thomas Jefferson) -
K(arl) wrote: Why didn't Dresden vote? The candidate for Dresden of the NPD died less than two weeks ago, so they had to 1) let the NPD nominate a new candidate and then 2) reprint the ballots and restart the postal vote, so the whole voting in that part of Dresden had to be delayed.
Chaque homme de culture a deux patries: la sienne - et la France. (Thomas Jefferson) -
Arnd H. wrote: The candidate for Dresden of the NPD died less than two weeks ago :jig: / :cool:, :beer:!
fat_boy wrote: I've got plenty of opinions, if you don't like them I've got plenty more
It's not really laughing matter (she leaves two kids behind) but it always cracks me up: she suffered a brain stroke during a NPD rally :rolleyes:
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
Well, those are the facts, I got nothing to add. But will Tomyboy spend a minute to read it...? _________________________________ Please inform me about my English mistakes, as I'm still trying to learn your language! -- modified at 4:54 Monday 19th September, 2005
I still don't know who to vote for. (And whether my vote really matters in the larger scheme of things :rolleyes: )
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
K(arl) wrote: Tomaž Štih wrote: think about opening myself some options in the new world across the Atlantic Hey Karl, do you know what that means? *dancing through the office* He's leaving! :-D Next time we'll be able to elect who we want to elect without some guy talking crap about democracy just because he doesn't like the result. :cool: Soon the soapbox will be cleaner! :rolleyes: _________________________________ Please inform me about my English mistakes, as I'm still trying to learn your language!
There is a difference between assuring a place in a lifeboat and deserting the ship. You know us, libertarian conservatives. We're stubborn. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight in Germany. We shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our taxes, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender! Tomaz
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I still don't know who to vote for. (And whether my vote really matters in the larger scheme of things :rolleyes: )
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygenAccording to Spiegel Online, your vote really counts: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,375430,00.html Entscheiden die Dresdner die Wahl? Die Wirrungen des deutschen Wahlrechts könnten skurrile Ergebnisse hervorbringen: Wenn zu viele die CDU wählen, verlöre sie ein Mandat. The difference between Red and Black is so small that one or two mandates can decide who'll become chancellor. :cool: _________________________________ Please inform me about my English mistakes, as I'm still trying to learn your language! -- modified at 15:39 Monday 19th September, 2005
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There is a difference between assuring a place in a lifeboat and deserting the ship. You know us, libertarian conservatives. We're stubborn. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight in Germany. We shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our taxes, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender! Tomaz
That means you never know when a things are over... _________________________________ Please inform me about my English mistakes, as I'm still trying to learn your language!