Open Source
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Just wondering about something that really bothers me with open source. Ok i've heard how you write open source software and than sell services while giving away the software for free. Would this not be the same as ford giving away cars and trucks, and than selling warranties, parts, and services?? See it seems crazy when applied to cars and trucks yet tons of developers argue with me that 100's of hours of work should be given away just for the heck of it to help open source. This just seems crazy to me or maybe i'm not getting it. For example Tivo HME sdk is really cool and let's say i wrote an app that uses it and it is really popular, now i just invested countless hours but because the sdk is on sourceforge and anything i write using it has to be open source, i can't sell the product. Maybe it's just me but woudn't that kill inovation. Oh wait i forgot mortgages car payments, bills those are just getting in the way of working all day for free just to better the society of open source. I don't know like i said maybe i'm just missing something here.
Some people just like to give things away. Some people love to code and share. If it isn't your bag, then fair enough. I put my own code out there because I like to share ideas and concepts. I write the code because it is fun and share it because it is a shame for it to just gather dust on my hard-disk as I moved onto something new. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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:seriously impressed:
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen -
its not like u can copy and email a car, duh.... :doh: xacc-ide 0.0.15 now with C#, MSIL, C, XML, ASP.NET, Nemerle, MyXaml and HLSL coloring - Screenshots
That would be pretty neat though. :) -- Keep talking! You're the fool, I'm the preacher.
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Awww.. come on Lauren. I love the way you leave pretty colored threads behind.. :-D -- Keep talking! You're the fool, I'm the preacher.
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That would be pretty neat though. :) -- Keep talking! You're the fool, I'm the preacher.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: That would be pretty neat though. Would be neat if cars were free too :p xacc-ide 0.0.15 now with C#, MSIL, C, XML, ASP.NET, Nemerle, MyXaml and HLSL coloring - Screenshots
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The main thing i'm getting at is how can people write software for free as a living. Maybe as a hobby but that would be an expensive one for sure in terms of hours. Applications here on cp are geared towards helping developers which is fine and great. I suspect however that applications requiring hundreds of man hours would not just be given away here for free maybe i am wrong but if that's the case how do those same people pay the bills. I can't imagine people program all night long to give stuff away and then go do another non-programming job to pay bills. Perhaps i am living in a bizzaro world where one tries to get paid for his/her profession. I'm not however trying to trash people who leave source code and articles on cp to help others. But one cannot survive on giving away work all the time
nlecren wrote: The main thing i'm getting at is how can people write software for free as a living. Maybe as a hobby but that would be an expensive one for sure in terms of hours. Think of it less as free and more as intra-office or intra-corporation software. I explained my case. I write, under contract, for the government, so all my code belongs to them. It is "free" per se, but my hours are reimbursed as long as I write software for them or their customers and the software is wanted. When my software stops being wanted, I start looking for other work. :) I don't own anything, though recent changes in laws do now allow for the company who employs me to copyright, patent and/or sell the software, after government approval and forms signed in triplicate, etc., to any other non-government corporation. The concept of the software being owned by a larger entity and shared automatically has been around for a very long time, it simply was "inside" a company or under government contract. Although new for the "public" it is not really a new concept. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Just wondering about something that really bothers me with open source. Ok i've heard how you write open source software and than sell services while giving away the software for free. Would this not be the same as ford giving away cars and trucks, and than selling warranties, parts, and services?? See it seems crazy when applied to cars and trucks yet tons of developers argue with me that 100's of hours of work should be given away just for the heck of it to help open source. This just seems crazy to me or maybe i'm not getting it. For example Tivo HME sdk is really cool and let's say i wrote an app that uses it and it is really popular, now i just invested countless hours but because the sdk is on sourceforge and anything i write using it has to be open source, i can't sell the product. Maybe it's just me but woudn't that kill inovation. Oh wait i forgot mortgages car payments, bills those are just getting in the way of working all day for free just to better the society of open source. I don't know like i said maybe i'm just missing something here.
Apparently, open source does not necessarily imply open mind... I've worked primarily for companies developing commercial software and can definitely see what you are getting at. GPL licensing is practically useless for incorporation into traditional commercial applications as it requires the source for your company's app to be distributed as well. I once needed to find a C++ wrapper for a complex Win32 API that I wasn't familiar with. The first one I found had GPL headers. I emailed the author of the library and he said just "remove the headers and do what you like with the code". Yeah right. The guy likely just copied the headers from somewhere without knowing what its purpose was. I quickly moved on to another article at CodeProject instead and used it to understand the API better and write my own wrapper. No more licensing bs. If you're going to hand out free software, you should let people use it how they like (I mean use, not republish, plagiarize, resell as code library, etc). Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand, the default licensing of article code on this site is not as onerous as GPL. If it were, I doubt this site would be as popular as it is.
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Just wondering about something that really bothers me with open source. Ok i've heard how you write open source software and than sell services while giving away the software for free. Would this not be the same as ford giving away cars and trucks, and than selling warranties, parts, and services?? See it seems crazy when applied to cars and trucks yet tons of developers argue with me that 100's of hours of work should be given away just for the heck of it to help open source. This just seems crazy to me or maybe i'm not getting it. For example Tivo HME sdk is really cool and let's say i wrote an app that uses it and it is really popular, now i just invested countless hours but because the sdk is on sourceforge and anything i write using it has to be open source, i can't sell the product. Maybe it's just me but woudn't that kill inovation. Oh wait i forgot mortgages car payments, bills those are just getting in the way of working all day for free just to better the society of open source. I don't know like i said maybe i'm just missing something here.
Play smart, play safe and stay with BSD or public domain software. License is open and you can do whatever you like! As for making money, I wonder how many people are making any money writing software for mass distribution... While there may be some, I would imagine a large number of developers make their living from employee/contract positions for corporations and other businesses. Rocky <>< My Blog[^]
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Just wondering about something that really bothers me with open source. Ok i've heard how you write open source software and than sell services while giving away the software for free. Would this not be the same as ford giving away cars and trucks, and than selling warranties, parts, and services?? See it seems crazy when applied to cars and trucks yet tons of developers argue with me that 100's of hours of work should be given away just for the heck of it to help open source. This just seems crazy to me or maybe i'm not getting it. For example Tivo HME sdk is really cool and let's say i wrote an app that uses it and it is really popular, now i just invested countless hours but because the sdk is on sourceforge and anything i write using it has to be open source, i can't sell the product. Maybe it's just me but woudn't that kill inovation. Oh wait i forgot mortgages car payments, bills those are just getting in the way of working all day for free just to better the society of open source. I don't know like i said maybe i'm just missing something here.
You're not the first person to ask such questions - and I think they're pretty fair questions. Unfortunately you've "opened a can of worms" as they say... and there are many many answers. To your question, how can they afford to: 1) you're assuming that developers are spending most of their time on OS - what's more likely is that developers are mainly using their spare time. And since some projects have dozens of contributors, the project can still progress quite quickly. 2) if you're a programmer on a well-paid salary and you're not greedy, you wouldn't have any qualms about contributing to unpaid OS projects. 3) if you're a developer with minimal living expenses (e.g. a fat inheritance or a winning lottery ticket :)) you wouldn't necessarily worry about making money. Then I guess the other part of your question, is what is the motivation for putting in hours of development for no remuneration; 1) it's a well known fact that programming is for many developers a hobby as well as job! And most developers would be required to work on stuff *other* people want during their day job, however with personal projects obviously you have total creative freedom. Hence innovation is promoted, not deterred. 2) the minute you charge for software you have an obligation to the customer to support the application, answer emails within a certain time frame - i.e. offer a high level of support. If you have a day job you can't really offer this. 3) the minute you charge for your software you're competing against other vendors who charge for similar products. And to promote commercial software you have to have a marketing budget - however free software is far easier to promote on free mediums. 4) the minute you charge for software you limit your user-base / adoption rate drastically 5) OS projects give developers an opportunity to stand out from the crowd. Contributing to a project that ends up becoming hugely popular and being part of such a project would be quite a personal achievement - and would often translate to direct benefits by adding such achievements to your resume. 6) OS projects provide a good learning opportunity while working on something useful 7) comradery - developers are forming groups and working together to create something of benefit to others and themselves (I'm sure most projects originate out of a personal need or goal) So as you can see there are plenty of reasons why sites such as CP are so popular. Does this answer your questions? cheers ash
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nlecren wrote: not here to kill open source im just saying that how do these open source developers live?? Do they write software for free all night and then bag groceries during the day to pay the bills??? Ah, that's a different question. :) As a consultant, I have several paying clients, and I put time into my open source projects and articles as time is available. A couple of my clients also don't mind if I take some time to write up some nifty technology (on my $$$ though, usually). As a consultant, I need to constantly be marketing myself, and the best way to do that is not by burying my nose in a revenue generating project which keeps me invisible to the world, but rather to have a marketing "budget", as it were. Meaning, I market myself by writing articles, working on OS, etc. And the clients that have contacted me from both have definitely paid for the marketing time. So, why should a programmer have to bag groceries during the day? I do work during the day, and I put time into "free" stuff at night. Or whenever. There's a lot of flexibility in the day. Marc My website Traceract Understanding Simple Data Binding Diary Of A CEO - Preface