An Islamic guide on how to beat your wife
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Well, to be fair, that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of wife beating.
Shog9 wrote: Well, to be fair, that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of wife beating. What would be a ringing endorsement? "Beat the sh!t out of your wife until she shuts the f@#$ up"? The guy is trying to sugarcoat wife beating, but still does not deny it. It's ok in extream cases? You can justfy anthing with thoses standards.
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A.A. wrote: Per what you wrote in the above quote, it seems you have a hard time distinguishing between things, so the answer will do you little good. Thats what I thought. Not man enough to answer because you know thw anwser is "yes" and you cannot bear to say it. Good luck in life, if you cannot be honest because of pride, your gonna need luck.
kgaddy wrote: Thats what I thought. Not man enough to answer because you know thw anwser is "yes" and you cannot bear to say it. Is your mom still in prision? Same kind of question. kgaddy wrote: Good luck in life, if you cannot be honest because of pride, your gonna need luck. I'll do some introspection on my part, but I have a great feeling that its your the one with the pride problem. Quran Translation Intro Discover
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kgaddy wrote: Yet I am getting a post difference of 3 minutes. And taking into account CP's stellar slow speed plus response... http://www.codeproject.com/script/comments/forums.asp?msg=1240620&forumid=2605#xx1240620xx to http://www.codeproject.com/script/comments/forums.asp?msg=1240620&forumid=2605#xx1240620xx is nine minutes They both seem to be the same link, I am still getting 3, any whatever who cares. kgaddy wrote: I did not miss them. I just took it as trying to tone down the meaning of beating your wife for all us infidels sake. Do you really belive it means a lite hit with a toothbrush? ....right You mean because there is a Hadith specific to that. Wait so you want to teach me what my religion says, because your colored glasses shows you something else? Islam is not going to change something, just so you are appeased. Quran Translation Intro Discover
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kgaddy wrote: Thats what I thought. Not man enough to answer because you know thw anwser is "yes" and you cannot bear to say it. Is your mom still in prision? Same kind of question. kgaddy wrote: Good luck in life, if you cannot be honest because of pride, your gonna need luck. I'll do some introspection on my part, but I have a great feeling that its your the one with the pride problem. Quran Translation Intro Discover
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You still have not answered the question, you have been jumping everywhere. Yes or No. Does Islam permit wife beating...yes or no.
kgaddy wrote: Yes or No. Does Islam permit wife beating...yes or no. ring a bell when you get an honest answer. Mike "We ain't stuck on stupid." badass Lt. General Russel Honore **"Remember - live bunnies are a great source of nourishment"**silly-assed cartoon
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You still have not answered the question, you have been jumping everywhere. Yes or No. Does Islam permit wife beating...yes or no.
kgaddy wrote: You still have not answered the question, you have been jumping everywhere. Yes or No. Does Islam permit wife beating...yes or no. From the article for the reading impaired. "...Such a measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but never on the face, making it more of a symbolic measure than a punitive one." If its more than that the answer is no. In fact beating as in the dictionary, the answer will be NO. Now get over it. :doh: Quran Translation Intro Discover
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kgaddy wrote: You still have not answered the question, you have been jumping everywhere. Yes or No. Does Islam permit wife beating...yes or no. From the article for the reading impaired. "...Such a measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but never on the face, making it more of a symbolic measure than a punitive one." If its more than that the answer is no. In fact beating as in the dictionary, the answer will be NO. Now get over it. :doh: Quran Translation Intro Discover
A.A. wrote: gentle tap So, the man you quoted says gentle tap, but the iman from Spain says "The blows" Which one is correct. Or does it matter if you are talking with infidels or fellow musilums? Why not come out and say it's a wrong custom that should be left in the middle ages. Why try to justify and cling on to this pratice? BTW the answer is yes. I guess the next question is what does beating mean?
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kgaddy wrote: You still have not answered the question, you have been jumping everywhere. Yes or No. Does Islam permit wife beating...yes or no. From the article for the reading impaired. "...Such a measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but never on the face, making it more of a symbolic measure than a punitive one." If its more than that the answer is no. In fact beating as in the dictionary, the answer will be NO. Now get over it. :doh: Quran Translation Intro Discover
Dictionary.com: # 1. To strike repeatedly. 2. To subject to repeated beatings or physical abuse; batter. 3. To punish by hitting or whipping; flog.
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A.A. wrote: gentle tap So, the man you quoted says gentle tap, but the iman from Spain says "The blows" Which one is correct. Or does it matter if you are talking with infidels or fellow musilums? Why not come out and say it's a wrong custom that should be left in the middle ages. Why try to justify and cling on to this pratice? BTW the answer is yes. I guess the next question is what does beating mean?
kgaddy wrote: So, the man you quoted says gentle tap, but the iman from Spain says "The blows" Translated from the language they speak there, or did he write it in English. Seriously get over it. kgaddy wrote: Which one is correct. Or does it matter if you are talking with infidels or fellow musilums? Islam more than any other religion does not go around tayloring what it says based upon who is listening. But then again you seem to be one of those "Islamic experts". kgaddy wrote: BTW the answer is yes. I guess the next question is what does beating mean? And this seems to be the bottom line, no matter what the real answer is, your hate for Islam is so deep it skews your everything you see about Islam/Muslims. Muslim chews gum, oh look at those Muslims how can they! Quran Translation Intro Discover
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Shog9 wrote: Well, to be fair, that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of wife beating. What would be a ringing endorsement? "Beat the sh!t out of your wife until she shuts the f@#$ up"? The guy is trying to sugarcoat wife beating, but still does not deny it. It's ok in extream cases? You can justfy anthing with thoses standards.
kgaddy wrote: The guy is trying to sugarcoat wife beating, but still does not deny it. And what? He gave you a link that pretty much spells out the attitude towards it: allowed, but discouraged. Don't get me wrong - i'm none too impressed with this sort of thing, and there are plenty of reports of violence against women coming from Islamic countries... But sadly, there are plenty of 'em coming from much, much closer as well. The sad truth of the matter is, there seems to be plenty of enthusiasm for violence towards women all over, with or without printed "guidelines".
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A.A. wrote: gentle tap So, the man you quoted says gentle tap, but the iman from Spain says "The blows" Which one is correct. Or does it matter if you are talking with infidels or fellow musilums? Why not come out and say it's a wrong custom that should be left in the middle ages. Why try to justify and cling on to this pratice? BTW the answer is yes. I guess the next question is what does beating mean?
The Quran is the literal word of God, dictated by the prophet, and therefore infallible. Hence the difficulty in dropping the scary dark age morality. Mormons will probably have similar issues in a few hundred years (and their prophet had golden tablets in a top hat - way more convincing than some unsupported angel stories), if they ain't already. Ryan
O fools, awake! The rites you sacred hold Are but a cheat contrived by men of old, Who lusted after wealth and gained their lust And died in baseness—and their law is dust. al-Ma'arri (973-1057)
-- modified at 16:57 Thursday 29th September, 2005
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kgaddy wrote: So, the man you quoted says gentle tap, but the iman from Spain says "The blows" Translated from the language they speak there, or did he write it in English. Seriously get over it. kgaddy wrote: Which one is correct. Or does it matter if you are talking with infidels or fellow musilums? Islam more than any other religion does not go around tayloring what it says based upon who is listening. But then again you seem to be one of those "Islamic experts". kgaddy wrote: BTW the answer is yes. I guess the next question is what does beating mean? And this seems to be the bottom line, no matter what the real answer is, your hate for Islam is so deep it skews your everything you see about Islam/Muslims. Muslim chews gum, oh look at those Muslims how can they! Quran Translation Intro Discover
A.A. wrote: your hate for Islam is so deep it skews your everything you see about Islam/Muslims. Not true, until a couple years ago I did not even think about Islam. And to be honest, I believe there are many good Muslims. But, I do believe there if a bunch of crazy teaching going on in the Islam world. All I want is for the good Muslims to take on the crazy ones. Below is what I have a problem with. I would love for you to tell me the following are wrong, but you will not. You will try to sugar coat them and justify them. A Muslim cannot be put to death for the murder of an unbeliever. (According to clause #14 of Prophet's Medina-Charter, proudly claimed by Sharia-proponents as "The First Written Constitution in the World". 2. A Muslim man is allowed to beat his wife or wives. - Qura'anic dictum. 3. A Muslim man is allowed to have four wives at one time. - Qura'anic dictum 4. A Muslim man can divorce his wife or wives instantaneously. Then he can marry a new set of wives and continue the cycle. - Corollary of Qura'anic dictum. 5. A Muslim woman must pay money to the husband by court orders to have the marriage dissolved. - Faulty human development on Qura'anic dictum.. 6. If a divorced couple wants to remarry each other, the wife must marry another person, must have complete sex with him and must be divorced by him willingly. - Qura'anic dictum. 7. The evidence required in a case of adultery is that of four Muslim adult men - Faulty human development on Qura'anic dictum. 8. Women's testimony is not accepted in cases of adultery or in any capital offence. - Faulty human development. 9. Evidence of a female singer and slave (male or female) is not admissible. - Faulty human development. 10. Testimony of a non-Muslim that has been punished for false accusation is inadmissible. If s/he later becomes a Muslim, her/his evidence is then admissible. -Faulty human development. 11. The Judge of the Court shall be a Muslim. The Judge may be a non-Muslim only if the accused is a non-Muslim. -Faulty human development. 12. Adoption is not allowed in Sharia. - Faulty human development on Qura'anic dictum. 13. Custody of children goes to mother as long as the kids need care, normally 9 years for boys and 7 for girls, after which the father takes over. But if the mother does not pray or gets married, the kids immediately go to the father. - Faulty human development. 14. Women inherit half of men. - Faulty human development on Qura'anic dictum.. 15. W
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kgaddy wrote: The guy is trying to sugarcoat wife beating, but still does not deny it. And what? He gave you a link that pretty much spells out the attitude towards it: allowed, but discouraged. Don't get me wrong - i'm none too impressed with this sort of thing, and there are plenty of reports of violence against women coming from Islamic countries... But sadly, there are plenty of 'em coming from much, much closer as well. The sad truth of the matter is, there seems to be plenty of enthusiasm for violence towards women all over, with or without printed "guidelines".
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The Quran is the literal word of God, dictated by the prophet, and therefore infallible. Hence the difficulty in dropping the scary dark age morality. Mormons will probably have similar issues in a few hundred years (and their prophet had golden tablets in a top hat - way more convincing than some unsupported angel stories), if they ain't already. Ryan
O fools, awake! The rites you sacred hold Are but a cheat contrived by men of old, Who lusted after wealth and gained their lust And died in baseness—and their law is dust. al-Ma'arri (973-1057)
-- modified at 16:57 Thursday 29th September, 2005
Ryan Roberts wrote: Mormons will probably have similar issues in a few hundred years (and their prophet had golden tablets in a top hat - way more convincing than some unsupported angel stories), if they ain't already. I'm not Mormon. And as crazy as those golden tablets sound, at least they are not hurting anyone, like killing their daughters and beating their wives. And I do believe they once beleved it was ok to have many wives. Did'nt they drop that because it was backwards? If they can drop their backward ways, why won't Islam?
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A.A. wrote: your hate for Islam is so deep it skews your everything you see about Islam/Muslims. Not true, until a couple years ago I did not even think about Islam. And to be honest, I believe there are many good Muslims. But, I do believe there if a bunch of crazy teaching going on in the Islam world. All I want is for the good Muslims to take on the crazy ones. Below is what I have a problem with. I would love for you to tell me the following are wrong, but you will not. You will try to sugar coat them and justify them. A Muslim cannot be put to death for the murder of an unbeliever. (According to clause #14 of Prophet's Medina-Charter, proudly claimed by Sharia-proponents as "The First Written Constitution in the World". 2. A Muslim man is allowed to beat his wife or wives. - Qura'anic dictum. 3. A Muslim man is allowed to have four wives at one time. - Qura'anic dictum 4. A Muslim man can divorce his wife or wives instantaneously. Then he can marry a new set of wives and continue the cycle. - Corollary of Qura'anic dictum. 5. A Muslim woman must pay money to the husband by court orders to have the marriage dissolved. - Faulty human development on Qura'anic dictum.. 6. If a divorced couple wants to remarry each other, the wife must marry another person, must have complete sex with him and must be divorced by him willingly. - Qura'anic dictum. 7. The evidence required in a case of adultery is that of four Muslim adult men - Faulty human development on Qura'anic dictum. 8. Women's testimony is not accepted in cases of adultery or in any capital offence. - Faulty human development. 9. Evidence of a female singer and slave (male or female) is not admissible. - Faulty human development. 10. Testimony of a non-Muslim that has been punished for false accusation is inadmissible. If s/he later becomes a Muslim, her/his evidence is then admissible. -Faulty human development. 11. The Judge of the Court shall be a Muslim. The Judge may be a non-Muslim only if the accused is a non-Muslim. -Faulty human development. 12. Adoption is not allowed in Sharia. - Faulty human development on Qura'anic dictum. 13. Custody of children goes to mother as long as the kids need care, normally 9 years for boys and 7 for girls, after which the father takes over. But if the mother does not pray or gets married, the kids immediately go to the father. - Faulty human development. 14. Women inherit half of men. - Faulty human development on Qura'anic dictum.. 15. W
So you just have this list handy, because they look really familiar. kgaddy wrote: You will try to sugar coat them and justify them. Sugar coat them no not at all, I won't even respond to them. If you want I can help you understand anything you want to know about the abc's and 123's. I get a sense from this and previous discussions you dont have a grasp of the very basics. If there is something you are genuinely interested in beyond the basics, I am willing to also talk about them, but you have to realize your a "student" sort of speak and not a know it all [there is a big difference in attitude when that is done]. Quran Translation Intro Discover
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So you just have this list handy, because they look really familiar. kgaddy wrote: You will try to sugar coat them and justify them. Sugar coat them no not at all, I won't even respond to them. If you want I can help you understand anything you want to know about the abc's and 123's. I get a sense from this and previous discussions you dont have a grasp of the very basics. If there is something you are genuinely interested in beyond the basics, I am willing to also talk about them, but you have to realize your a "student" sort of speak and not a know it all [there is a big difference in attitude when that is done]. Quran Translation Intro Discover
Maybe you misunderstand me. I saying this is what I have heard about Islam. All I want to know is are they true? I am not a student of Islam, noe will I be. But I am willing to live in peace with Islam. But from what I read, Islam is not willing to live in peace with me. Now, if this is wrong, please show me why it is wrong. But remember, I am not interested in Islam as a whole, I just am interested as how it relates to me as a infidel. And you make you assured, I am not a know it all. That is why I am asking you. But remember, I am asking you as an equal, not as a student.
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So you believe that printed guideline does not make the situation worse? THe fact is even if it is discouraged, it does not put them in jail. I can hear the defense, "But it's in the Quran!"
kgaddy wrote: So you believe that printed guideline does not make the situation worse? I believe the situation's already so bad, it probably doesn't make much difference. How many women do you know, who ended up staying with, even protecting a guy who beats them senseless? And this is with it being frowned on pretty openly! kgaddy wrote: I can hear the defense, "But it's in the Quran!" So what's our defense? Hmm? What've we got, that excuses our society, and gives us license to point fingers?
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kgaddy wrote: So you believe that printed guideline does not make the situation worse? I believe the situation's already so bad, it probably doesn't make much difference. How many women do you know, who ended up staying with, even protecting a guy who beats them senseless? And this is with it being frowned on pretty openly! kgaddy wrote: I can hear the defense, "But it's in the Quran!" So what's our defense? Hmm? What've we got, that excuses our society, and gives us license to point fingers?
Shog9 wrote: I believe the situation's already so bad, it probably doesn't make much difference. How many women do you know, who ended up staying with, even protecting a guy who beats them senseless? And this is with it being frowned on pretty openly! But at least it's a choice,even if it's a bad one. With shria law, they have no choice. Also, when they go leave the guy and try to get him locked up, we have laws that will protect her and put him away. Shog9 wrote: So what's our defense? I was talking as if I we a man accused of beating his wife, he whould use the defence that it is in the Quran. In our Society, the only defence that might work is self defence.
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Shog9 wrote: I believe the situation's already so bad, it probably doesn't make much difference. How many women do you know, who ended up staying with, even protecting a guy who beats them senseless? And this is with it being frowned on pretty openly! But at least it's a choice,even if it's a bad one. With shria law, they have no choice. Also, when they go leave the guy and try to get him locked up, we have laws that will protect her and put him away. Shog9 wrote: So what's our defense? I was talking as if I we a man accused of beating his wife, he whould use the defence that it is in the Quran. In our Society, the only defence that might work is self defence.
kgaddy wrote: But at least it's a choice,even if it's a bad one. Which are worse - shackles of law, or shackles of mind?