Life after death. (just for fun)
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Life after death.. what a concept. If there's life after death, then why do we die? All religions more or less tell us how to live our life, and what will happen after we die. But none, that I'm aware of, tells us why we have to die. Wouldn't it pointless to die, eventhough we'd live after death? :~ -- Look straight into the light!
The Bible explains it thus, though I could go into it further if you wish (drop me an email): God created Adam and Eve to live forever. He put them in a paradise and told them to cultivate the rest of the earth into a paradise and to procreate and populate the earth. God put upon them just one restriction: Do not eat of the tree in the middle of the garden. This was called the tree of Good and Bad, because it symbolized God's right to choose what was good and bad for mankind. Satan, an angel created perfect, cultivated improper desires and wanted mankind to worship him, instead of God. So he told Eve that she would not die if she ate of the fruit, that she would be like God, knowing Good and Bad. This was the first lie which, as you have pointed out, many religions still tell when they say that the soul continues on after death, for example. So Eve, and later Adam, ate of the tree, deliberately choosing to rule themselves, wishing to choose for themselves what was good and what was bad. But God did not lie, and eventually they did die, as does all their descendants, all of mankind, because we all inherited sin and death from them. Death is the end. Ecclesiastes points out that "The living are concious that they will die, but the dead are conscious of nothing at all." Also, the Psalmists writes that there is no devising in Sheol (the common grave of mankind). But God does care for mankind. Satan opened a couple of challenges against God, one main challenge being that mankind would be better off ruling themselves. God has allowed the last 6,000 years or so to prove that no, mankind cannot rule themselves. He offers two prospects for mankind, though. A limited number, as mentioned in the book of Revelation, are chosen to be kings and priests and rule in heaven with Jesus. For the rest of us, God will soon bring an end to this wicked world and there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous for man to live here on earth in a paradise. For reason of brevity, I left out many of the supporting scriptures. If you want more discussion on this Jorgen, feel free to email me. I hope this answers your question about why we die. It's all because God told man that they would die if they disobeyed him, and so we do. It is a lie started by Satan saying that we don't die and that death is just an entrance to a better (or worse) life. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Well, that is the thing that ensures I don't speed or drive recklessly - that, and the fact that I would like to stay alive. I can think of many situations where, for example, people will drive in ways that, while technically breaking the law, they believe there's no danger to their lives. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: I would guess none. Because the people who committed these terrible crimes are not holding themselves accountable to the law. They are living by your philosophy that if we are only accountable to the law, then if the law doesn't see it, it's all right. When they're caught, they are, supposedly, held accountable to the law.... if they are caught. [Edit] I forgot to add, that even if people really do 'hold themselves accountable to the law', the law doesn't really govern how we act and treat other people in our personal lives. I mean, I could totally ignore my parents, strangers needing help, etc., for example, and what would the law do to me? But if we hold ourselves to higher standards, because we're accountable, then we would treat everyone we meet with love and respect. [/Edit] Colin Angus Mackay wrote: bugDanny wrote: if one hold himself to higher standards due to an accountability to our Creator, then one will try to act on those standards Yup. I always try to do my best because I do not want to disappoint my parents. Most people tend to realize that they're parents are not the 'higher (divine?) beings' that they thought they were when they turn, like, twelve. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: bugDanny wrote: And I'm sure we all would agree that our law is far from the greatest But, it is what we have, and we must do the best we can with it. Actually, if you would have read my earlier post, we also have the high standards as set forth in the Bible. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Well, that depends. If they are put in the custody of "Reliance" quite a lot because they are a completely useless custodial company. I have no idea what you are talking about. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Yup. That is absolutely true. Other people are truely stupid. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Danny The stupidity of others amazes me! -- modified at 14:30 Monday 3rd October, 2005
bugDanny wrote: Most people tend to realize that they're parents are not the 'higher (divine?) beings' that they thought they were when they turn, like, twelve. I never said that my parents were "higher" or "divine" beings. I agreed that they were my creator. bugDanny wrote: if you would have read my earlier post, we also have the high standards as set forth in the Bible If you would have read my earlier post you will see that I already said that there is a lot of good advice in the bible. However, some of it is totally disagreeable: An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth - Exodus. Please don't use the argument that it is in the Old Testament so it isn't valid any more as I hear so many Christians saying these days. If it isn't valid then why is the Old Testament still part of the bible. bugDanny wrote: I have no idea what you are talking about. It was a reference to the prison system being run by private companies who are out to make a profit and accidentally release convicted murderers while holding in prison for several days someone who was supposed to be released with just a parking fine to pay.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
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Tim Craig wrote: I could argue that a lot of the rules foisted by religions are just plain silly Agreed. But are we talking about religions that put forth things apart from the Bible? There are many, many religions that claim to follow the Bible, but really impose standards and traditions of their own making. The moral guidelines and principles set forth in the Bible are perfect. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
bugDanny wrote: But are we talking about religions that put forth things apart from the Bible? I was thinking ESPECIALLY the bible. It's inconsistent, contradictory, and to make anything out of it, you have to provide your own interpretation. Why not just take what makes some sense out of it and say it makes sense for its own sake rather that saying it makes sense because it has divine provenance? The rest is rubbish or archaic at best and toss it in the dust bin of time rather than worshipping something that impedes progress. At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe.
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Well, that is the thing that ensures I don't speed or drive recklessly - that, and the fact that I would like to stay alive. I can think of many situations where, for example, people will drive in ways that, while technically breaking the law, they believe there's no danger to their lives. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: I would guess none. Because the people who committed these terrible crimes are not holding themselves accountable to the law. They are living by your philosophy that if we are only accountable to the law, then if the law doesn't see it, it's all right. When they're caught, they are, supposedly, held accountable to the law.... if they are caught. [Edit] I forgot to add, that even if people really do 'hold themselves accountable to the law', the law doesn't really govern how we act and treat other people in our personal lives. I mean, I could totally ignore my parents, strangers needing help, etc., for example, and what would the law do to me? But if we hold ourselves to higher standards, because we're accountable, then we would treat everyone we meet with love and respect. [/Edit] Colin Angus Mackay wrote: bugDanny wrote: if one hold himself to higher standards due to an accountability to our Creator, then one will try to act on those standards Yup. I always try to do my best because I do not want to disappoint my parents. Most people tend to realize that they're parents are not the 'higher (divine?) beings' that they thought they were when they turn, like, twelve. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: bugDanny wrote: And I'm sure we all would agree that our law is far from the greatest But, it is what we have, and we must do the best we can with it. Actually, if you would have read my earlier post, we also have the high standards as set forth in the Bible. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Well, that depends. If they are put in the custody of "Reliance" quite a lot because they are a completely useless custodial company. I have no idea what you are talking about. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: Yup. That is absolutely true. Other people are truely stupid. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Danny The stupidity of others amazes me! -- modified at 14:30 Monday 3rd October, 2005
bugDanny wrote: Actually, if you would have read my earlier post, we also have the high standards as set forth in the Bible. And "we" don't all accept the bible as being high standards. Especially, with all the crap that comes along with accepting the full christian package. At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe.
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bugDanny wrote: Most people tend to realize that they're parents are not the 'higher (divine?) beings' that they thought they were when they turn, like, twelve. I never said that my parents were "higher" or "divine" beings. I agreed that they were my creator. bugDanny wrote: if you would have read my earlier post, we also have the high standards as set forth in the Bible If you would have read my earlier post you will see that I already said that there is a lot of good advice in the bible. However, some of it is totally disagreeable: An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth - Exodus. Please don't use the argument that it is in the Old Testament so it isn't valid any more as I hear so many Christians saying these days. If it isn't valid then why is the Old Testament still part of the bible. bugDanny wrote: I have no idea what you are talking about. It was a reference to the prison system being run by private companies who are out to make a profit and accidentally release convicted murderers while holding in prison for several days someone who was supposed to be released with just a parking fine to pay.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
Colin Angus Mackay wrote: I never said that my parents were "higher" or "divine" beings. I agreed that they were my creator. Ah, yes. I was thinking about the 'higher power' this thread was about, but I see I did use the word Creator. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: bugDanny wrote: if you would have read my earlier post, we also have the high standards as set forth in the Bible If you would have read my earlier post you will see that I already said that there is a lot of good advice in the bible. Yes, I saw that. But I wrote this in response to: Colin Angus Mackay wrote: But, it[the law] is what we have, and we must do the best we can with it. So I was reiterating that the law is not all we have. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: However, some of it is totally disagreeable: An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth - Exodus. Please don't use the argument that it is in the Old Testament so it isn't valid any more as I hear so many Christians saying these days. If it isn't valid then why is the Old Testament still part of the bible. This was part of the Mosaic Law, which Christians are no longer strictly held to. The Mosaic Law was referred to as the 'tutor leading to Christ'. Christ fulfilled the Law, and he set forth a new law for Christians. Today we are supposed to live by the principles set forth in the whole Bible, the foremost of which is love. The Old Testament is still there because (a) the principles set forth in it still apply (b) as I mentioned it was the 'tutor leading to Christ' (c) so we know the Laws that the Israelites lived by throughout the rest of the Old Testament, etc. Why is it completely disagreeable that a criminal that took out the eye of another, or killed another, should not have the same done to him? And in the case of incidental manslaughter, there were seven cities of refuge in Israel for one to take refuge in if he accidentally caused the death of his brother. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: It was a reference to the prison system being run by private companies who are out to make a profit and accidentally release convicted murderers while holding in prison for several days someone who was supposed to be released with just a parking fine to pay. Okay. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
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Put that way, of course it's difficult to believe in God. But I'm not talking about God in the judgement sense. I'm talking about God as a higher power. It's possible (definite for me :) ) that there is a God and s/he's not actually judging us for our actions but is studying us to see how far we'll evolve. In which case, everything you said is not God's fault, but our own. Second, when people talk about God, they always think of the religion definition of God and not the Supreme Being concept of him/her. For all we know, the Universe is alive (God) and is taking notes on us. "If only one person knows the truth, it is still the truth." - Mahatma Gandhi Web - Blog - RSS - Math
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: Second, when people talk about God, they always think of the religion definition of God and not the Supreme Being concept of him/her. For all we know, the Universe is alive (God) and is taking notes on us. If you're postulating that god is just part of nature, then science will eventually discover him. Until then, it's pure specualtion and a poor science fiction story. Until then, I say it's a poor bet and won't buy into that theory as it's just warmed over religion tring to pass as science. If you trot out the "unknowable" card, then it really is religion and who cares. At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe.
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bugDanny wrote: But are we talking about religions that put forth things apart from the Bible? I was thinking ESPECIALLY the bible. It's inconsistent, contradictory, and to make anything out of it, you have to provide your own interpretation. Why not just take what makes some sense out of it and say it makes sense for its own sake rather that saying it makes sense because it has divine provenance? The rest is rubbish or archaic at best and toss it in the dust bin of time rather than worshipping something that impedes progress. At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe.
Tim Craig wrote: It's inconsistent, contradictory This is untrue. No one has ever been able to show me a contradiction in the Bible. [Edit] I thought of this after I made this post originally. Tim Craig wrote: and to make anything out of it, you have to provide your own interpretation Let me try a small example. Jesus said that the two greatest commandments were: "You must love God with your whole soul." and: "You must love your neighbor as yourself." What difficult interpretation does one need to make to understand this, where Jesus points out that we need to live our lives based on love for God and for our fellow man? I don't really see how other interpretations can make this a low standard. [/Edit] Tim Craig wrote: I was thinking ESPECIALLY the bible. You actually said religion, which is why I asked. Tim Craig wrote: The rest is rubbish or archaic at best and toss it in the dust bin of time rather than worshipping something that impedes progress. Would you like to provide an example? All the principles in the Bible are very useful even in modern day. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me! -- modified at 16:28 Monday 3rd October, 2005
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bugDanny wrote: Actually, if you would have read my earlier post, we also have the high standards as set forth in the Bible. And "we" don't all accept the bible as being high standards. Especially, with all the crap that comes along with accepting the full christian package. At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe.
Tim Craig wrote: And "we" don't all accept the bible as being high standards. What in the Bible would you say is low standards? BTW, I made that comment in response to Colin's comment about 'we have the law'. I was reiterating that we also have other standards we can hold ourselves to. Tim Craig wrote: Especially, with all the crap that comes along with accepting the full christian package. Because Christianity has done a poor job of representing God and the Bible doesn't detract from the Bible. I was only standing behind the Bible. I agree with you that the majority of so-called 'Christian' relgions are full of crap, and lies, and double standards, and invalid traditions, etc., etc. And yet still, the Bible's standards are the most perfect. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
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bugDanny wrote: Most people tend to realize that they're parents are not the 'higher (divine?) beings' that they thought they were when they turn, like, twelve. I never said that my parents were "higher" or "divine" beings. I agreed that they were my creator. bugDanny wrote: if you would have read my earlier post, we also have the high standards as set forth in the Bible If you would have read my earlier post you will see that I already said that there is a lot of good advice in the bible. However, some of it is totally disagreeable: An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth - Exodus. Please don't use the argument that it is in the Old Testament so it isn't valid any more as I hear so many Christians saying these days. If it isn't valid then why is the Old Testament still part of the bible. bugDanny wrote: I have no idea what you are talking about. It was a reference to the prison system being run by private companies who are out to make a profit and accidentally release convicted murderers while holding in prison for several days someone who was supposed to be released with just a parking fine to pay.
My: Blog | Photos "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in." -- Confucious
Sorry I didn't include this in my first post. I thought about it after I made that post. Colin Angus Mackay wrote: However, some of it is totally disagreeable: An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth - Exodus. Please don't use the argument that it is in the Old Testament so it isn't valid any more Now consider what Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount: "38 “YOU heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39 However, I say to YOU: Do not resist him that is wicked; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. 40 And if a person wants to go to court with you and get possession of your inner garment, let your outer garment also go to him; 41 and if someone under authority impresses you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one that wants to borrow from you [without interest]." - Matthew 5:38 - 42 Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: Second, when people talk about God, they always think of the religion definition of God and not the Supreme Being concept of him/her. For all we know, the Universe is alive (God) and is taking notes on us. If you're postulating that god is just part of nature, then science will eventually discover him. Until then, it's pure specualtion and a poor science fiction story. Until then, I say it's a poor bet and won't buy into that theory as it's just warmed over religion tring to pass as science. If you trot out the "unknowable" card, then it really is religion and who cares. At any given instant there are considerably more assholes than mouths in the universe.
Tim Craig wrote: If you're postulating that god is just part of nature Absolutely not. By definitioSupreme Being, God would BE nature and the known universe and multiverse. We will never ever discover him/her. It's like saying a painting will eventually discover its painter. end, we're only three dimentional bening trying to understand an infinitely complex one (that created us). Can only happen if God wanted it so. Thus, the atheists will always say there is no God, and the religious will say we can never truly understand him. That does not mean either is wrong. It just m,eans we'll never know, as it should be. Imagine the meaning of life if you knew the meaning of life? It would be meaningless. "If only one person knows the truth, it is still the truth." - Mahatma Gandhi Web - Blog - RSS - Math
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Tim Craig wrote: It's inconsistent, contradictory This is untrue. No one has ever been able to show me a contradiction in the Bible. [Edit] I thought of this after I made this post originally. Tim Craig wrote: and to make anything out of it, you have to provide your own interpretation Let me try a small example. Jesus said that the two greatest commandments were: "You must love God with your whole soul." and: "You must love your neighbor as yourself." What difficult interpretation does one need to make to understand this, where Jesus points out that we need to live our lives based on love for God and for our fellow man? I don't really see how other interpretations can make this a low standard. [/Edit] Tim Craig wrote: I was thinking ESPECIALLY the bible. You actually said religion, which is why I asked. Tim Craig wrote: The rest is rubbish or archaic at best and toss it in the dust bin of time rather than worshipping something that impedes progress. Would you like to provide an example? All the principles in the Bible are very useful even in modern day. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me! -- modified at 16:28 Monday 3rd October, 2005
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Tim Craig wrote: And "we" don't all accept the bible as being high standards. What in the Bible would you say is low standards? BTW, I made that comment in response to Colin's comment about 'we have the law'. I was reiterating that we also have other standards we can hold ourselves to. Tim Craig wrote: Especially, with all the crap that comes along with accepting the full christian package. Because Christianity has done a poor job of representing God and the Bible doesn't detract from the Bible. I was only standing behind the Bible. I agree with you that the majority of so-called 'Christian' relgions are full of crap, and lies, and double standards, and invalid traditions, etc., etc. And yet still, the Bible's standards are the most perfect. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!
bugDanny wrote: I agree with you that the majority of so-called 'Christian' relgions are full of crap, and lies, and double standards, and invalid traditions, etc., etc. So your version of christianity is the one true version? Why should I believe that your one true version is better than all the other christian or. for that matter, all the other religions that run amok proclaiming they're the one true religion. And to save you the trouble of answering, they all proclaim that because they say so and no one can prove they're not.
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Tim Craig wrote: If you're postulating that god is just part of nature Absolutely not. By definitioSupreme Being, God would BE nature and the known universe and multiverse. We will never ever discover him/her. It's like saying a painting will eventually discover its painter. end, we're only three dimentional bening trying to understand an infinitely complex one (that created us). Can only happen if God wanted it so. Thus, the atheists will always say there is no God, and the religious will say we can never truly understand him. That does not mean either is wrong. It just m,eans we'll never know, as it should be. Imagine the meaning of life if you knew the meaning of life? It would be meaningless. "If only one person knows the truth, it is still the truth." - Mahatma Gandhi Web - Blog - RSS - Math
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: By definitioSupreme Being, God would BE nature and the known universe and multiverse. We will never ever discover him/her Then this definition is just a rehash of all the creation myths used by religions and the current creationist zealots. Basically, we can't explain it so let's jump to a mystical explanation. We'll make up a fanciful story that sounds plausible to those who won't think about about it and then when it's questioned by someone who does think, we just deny that it can ever be explained. Sorry, but no sale here.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote: By definitioSupreme Being, God would BE nature and the known universe and multiverse. We will never ever discover him/her Then this definition is just a rehash of all the creation myths used by religions and the current creationist zealots. Basically, we can't explain it so let's jump to a mystical explanation. We'll make up a fanciful story that sounds plausible to those who won't think about about it and then when it's questioned by someone who does think, we just deny that it can ever be explained. Sorry, but no sale here.
Lack of proof is not the same as counter-proof. Again, just because you do not wish to believe in it, it doesn't mean it can't be true. In mathematics, proving that two parallel lines will never meet is known as Euclid's 5th Postulate, and hyperbolic geometry is just as valid as Euclidean geometry. Just because we cannot prove it one way or the other, it doesn't mean that we don't accept it. "If only one person knows the truth, it is still the truth." - Mahatma Gandhi Web - Blog - RSS - Math
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bugDanny wrote: I agree with you that the majority of so-called 'Christian' relgions are full of crap, and lies, and double standards, and invalid traditions, etc., etc. So your version of christianity is the one true version? Why should I believe that your one true version is better than all the other christian or. for that matter, all the other religions that run amok proclaiming they're the one true religion. And to save you the trouble of answering, they all proclaim that because they say so and no one can prove they're not.
Actually there are several ways we can tell which religion is true, if we look to the Bible, which should be our guide. Jesus said, "By their fruits you will recognize them." To discover the true religion, we will be able to tell by their 'fruits' or what they produce. Jesus also said, "By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves." So the true religion would have love among its members, and not just in one country, but worldwide. Why? Acts 10:34, 35: "God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him." Also, Jesus started one Christian religion, and Ephesians 4:4,5 says, "One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;" The Bible foretold that after the death of the apostles, wrong teachings and unchristian practices would slowly come into the Christian congregation, which is why we seem to have so many religions that claim to be Christian. But another mark of the true religion is that its members have a deep respect for the Bible. 2 Tim. 3:16,17: "All Scripture is inspired of God." And this religion must also honor God's name. Jesus said at John 17:6, "I have made your name manifest." And at 17:26, "I have made your name known to them and will make it known." Also, true Chrisitians would follow Jesus command at Matthew 28:19,20, to "go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Fathe and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded of you." So we would take part in a worldwide ministry, like Jesus and the first-century Christians did. Lastly, Jesus said, "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world." Just as Jesus refused to be made king, Christians would not get involved in the world's political affairs. And we would also avoid harmful conduct, practices and attitudes that are common in the world. These are some of the 'identifying marks' of true Christianity, as set forth in the Bible. Danny The stupidity of others amazes me!